Bought home, found out someone died in it.

Member since 2008 · 14 posts · 0 votes

I have a very strange question. Back in October my wife and I bought a new home. It was that house that wouldn't sell. Aside from the landscaping being terrible, the paint colors atrocious and some other minor cosmetic issues it was a great find. We have since completed the projects and made the house a home. This week we redid the front yard landscaping and have started to meet the neighbors. One of them lead on that the woman's husband died in the home. We verified this through our local police department but will not know the cause of death until monday when we can call the records division. My wife has a real problem with living in a home where someone died. After all this work that we did and the recent downturn in the market we will probably have a very difficult time selling. My neighbor said that the seller is required by law to notify us that someone died in the house. Is this true? I live in Ohio. If it is true what recourse do we have?? Looking for any advice I can get on this one as I have never come across it before.

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Member since 2008 · 1 post · 1 vote

19y

I also agree that the wife needs some serious psyhiatric help. While asking if a home has been the scene of a death in itself is not disturbing, this level she is taking it to certainly is.

Being an investor in an older historic area (Savannah), I come across what we call death houses all of the time. I've spent many countless hours in some of these houses - some of which have had dead people in them for many days or weeks. Not once have I fallen victim to any ghosts.

When I sell a house, I will disclose to the potential buyer that a death has occured in the home. I usually find that I don't have to disclose this death as it is usually public record. As this man and his wife has found, all you have to do is ask to see the incident report. I suggest any buyer utilize every available resource when purchasing a home - even calling the police to do a search on the address.

As far as the poster's children coming into contact with any biological matter, I can assure you this was cleaned up. Whenever a violent death occurs in a home, you can bet the medical examiner, funeral home, police, etc. will be contacting a disaster cleanup company. These companies have employees that are so well trained, they can completely clean a home in about two hours and you'd never be able to tell anything happened there.

For example, I recently purchased a home from an elderly woman's estate. No one had heard from this lady in months and the utilities had been shut off. After about five months when summer hit and the neighbors really noticed the smell, they called the police. This poor old lady had been on the living room floor in the hot Georgia heat for five months. You can imagine what she smelled and looked like.

Three months later when I bought the house from the old lady's estate, the smell was very much still there with a nasty stain on the living room carpet. A few coats of paint on the inside of the home and the services of a disaster clean up company, you can't even tell anything ever happened there. When I sold the house it smelled brand new.

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Jim Gordon
Residential Real Estate Agent · OH · Member since 2008 · 553 posts · 24 votes
19y
In Ohio there is no disclosure required to tell if someone died in a house. If you received the 4 page Ohio property disclosure form that is all that is required.
There is no spot on the form for past deaths in the home. On the other side if it was a messy death and not cleaned properly you could go after them for a biohazard but not for nondisclosure.

This is not legal advise you may want to check with an attorney.
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OP
Member since 2008 · 14 posts · 0 votes
19y
Thanks. What if we directly asked about a death in the house. My wife is a freak about this sort of thing and when we were in the house she made mention that she wanted a home that was newer because she specifically didn't want to live where someone had died. Looking back the realtor's story changed from "I talk to her weekly" to "I don't know about her personal life" Wouldn't this be considered a type of material defect as we certainly would have not bought the home if this information wasn't deliberately witheld. If nothing else the house sold for more money than it would have by withholding this information. This bothers my wife a lot but doesn't bother me. The only issue that bothered me was whether I would be required to disclose this information in the event of a future sale. If I would have been required to disclose this when I sell I would probably have to go to court.
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Kyle Gregory
Real Estate Investor · liberty township, OH · Member since 2008 · 149 posts · 6 votes
19y
sounds like you have a beef with the real estate agent...
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Richard Warren
Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
19y
You may not have a beef with the agent depending on the laws of the state. Here in Nevada an agent is NOT ALLOWED to disclose that a death occurred even if you ask. He would be able to tell you to check records or police reports, etc. Death is a fact of life and people die in homes every day, to not buy a home because someone died in it would remove many homes, especially older ones, from your possible purchase prospects.

8)
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OP
Member since 2008 · 14 posts · 0 votes
19y
This is definately interesting. I did find out that he actually killed himself in the home. that explains why someone would be so desperate to move out of a two year old home. From what it sounds like this is a non issue as it will not affect me in the event of a sale. I am definitely irritated that the Realtor almost without doubt concealed this information though. My wife asked pretty directly and if nothing else it is very unethical of them to not reveal that they knew.
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Tracy Humphreys
Homeowner · Teaneck, NJ · Member since 2008 · 25 posts · 0 votes
19y
Seriously, I would be pissed. Knowing that someone died in the house would cause me a lot of distress,sleepless nights and anxiety. JMO Personally I would not take this lightly, I would make a complaint through the real estate office and I would talk to my lawyer not necessarily to sue, but just to find out about the legalities if any.

Good luck!
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Richard Warren
Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
19y
People seem to be jumping all over the agent, what if he didn’t disclose it because he couldn’t? Nevada will not allow an agent to disclose it and an agent can be disciplined if he does. What are we talking about here? Did he pass away or was it some kind of criminal act? I understand that some people get creepy feelings about this but are they supposed to tear down a house when someone dies in it?

8)
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Ashan D
Renter · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2008 · 78 posts · 2 votes
19y
IMO if I was in your situation I would fib your wife by saying that it was actually the person's dog that died on the property (and then speak to the neighbor so they would give the same story) I'm not an advocate of lying but in this circumstance I would jusitfy it, because 1) It would give your wife peace of mind (because she does seem awefully afraid of this type of thing without a justifiable rational basis) and 2) Potentially save you from having to move to a different house.
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OP
Member since 2008 · 14 posts · 0 votes
19y
The Realtor is allowed to disclose this in Ohio. Until about two years ago they had to disclose this type of thing if it occurred within 3 years of the sale. The law recently changed to more vague language which could still include this sort of thing. From what I understand more less you cannot withhold "anything" that may affect the sale. The seller has the responsibility to disclose and the buyer doesn't have the responsibility to ask. We did directly ask and the question was pretty much dodged. I don't think that they should tear down all the homes that people died in but I should have knowledge that some guy blew his brains out in the house no more than a year before. How do I know that it was properly cleaned up? What if my 1 year old is crawling on carpet that still has some type of human matter in it and then putting his fingers in his mouth. The carpet is definitely the original carpet. (I assume they steam cleaned it) Now I feel that I spent 200k on something that was completely misrepresented. The story we were told was that she moved because of her job and needed to unload the house as she was now stuck with two payments. I figure "hey a great deal on a two year old home with some cosmetic issues, Great!" After some research it turns out she didn't move more than 15 miles away. The more I think about this the more it makes me mad. I am not at all uncomfortable living here but I am very angry with the lack of honesty and the bold faced lying that went on just to make commission.
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Richard Warren
Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
19y
There is obviously a big difference between someone passing away in their sleep and blowing their brains out for just the reasons you outlined. Did you ever find out who died and how? If they are required to disclose it and didn’t you should report the agent to the state real estate board.

8)
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OP
Member since 2008 · 14 posts · 0 votes
19y
Right now we know that the seller's husband killed himself in the home. We have to wait until tomorrow morning to find out exactly what happened because the police records division is only open on weekdays here and the person at the station that answered the phone said that she could not tell us what happened but could confirm that he died in the home. The story from the neighbors is either "I don't know" (while looking at the ground) or "I heard he shot himself" I will probably have to see an attorney now because I have a job where I could be relocated with no notice and may have to sell. If this were to occur in the near future I need to find out if I would be required to disclose my knowledge of this event. If I am required to disclose then I need to seek damages as I will very likely have difficulty selling this house.
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OP
Member since 2008 · 14 posts · 0 votes
19y
Ok, I have the facts. Exactly 18 months prior to closing the seller's husband shot himself in the master bedroom while lying in bed. What we thought were previously rust stains were actually most likely blood stains. You can see the entire outline of their bed stained in brown. The stains were rinsed a little bit but are actually so bad that we could have never believed that they were blood. My wife mentioned on two occasions that she was completely freaked out by anything involving dead people and by the response by the realtor and broker make it obvious that they were concealing their knowledge. This was once during one of my wifes long conversations with the realtor (I have phone records, they spoke for a total of 33 hours by phone prior to the sale) and once when we were signing our offer when they laughingly shrugged off the possibility of a death in a two year old home. The first time my wife told her that we were looking at homes that were nearly new to avoid having to live in a house where someone died. The second time the broker was talking about how he buys things at estate sales and my wife said that she just couldn't do that because she has a real problem dealing with death. Both times they shrugged it off like "lots of people feel that way" They said that the reason she moved was to be closer to work. After checking into this she actually moved 25 miles farther from her workplace. The house was so misrepresented it is unbelievable. Their responses were so canned that I cannot believe that we didn't see through it. The blood stains are so bad that I can't believe that she didn't rip up the carpet. I am not comfortable lying about this if I get transfered at work and need to sell. What have my children (18 months and 5 years) been exposed to. Who is going to pay for this carpet. This is completely unbelievable. I did speak to a lawyer and he said to sue to the hilt. I just want the carpet replaced and something to makeup for the lost market value when I do sell and disclose this. Is this reasonable? Should I take the lawyers advice and go for broke? I have some serious moral issues with that concept but I also have issues thinking of what my children could have been (but hopefully havent been) exposed to as a result of this whole mess. Who is actually liable, the seller, the broker/agent, both, nobody? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I am so completely irritated by this that I can't even make a sound judgment.
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Richard Warren
Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
19y
I would definitely sue for damages such as carpet replacement, etc. But I would also go after the potential lost value if you need to sell. This agent also needs to be reported to the state real estate board. He shouldn’t be allowed to treat people this way. He will have to respond to the complaint and defend himself to keep his license, he needs to be taught a lesson if the facts are as you describe them.

8)
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Andrew B.
Real Estate Investor · Calgary · Member since 2008 · 92 posts · 3 votes
19y
Any updates hoeser?
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Jon C.
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2008 · 74 posts · 14 votes
19y
This is interesting. If it was me, I'd find a way to sue. I'd be beyond pissed off. I have no problem with someone dying. But for someone to blow their brains out in the master bedroom a year ago is way too creepy. And the fact that there is still a huge blood stain around the bed? Christ almighty, I'd have moved out already. Imagine when you pull up that carpet. Ugh.

Have you told your wife?
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Matt H
Member since 2008 · 452 posts · 18 votes
19y
well if you ever bought a really old home then chances are someone died in it at some point anyway. It's no big deal if someone died in it. Just think they're ghost that's watching you right now probably isn't bothering you because it knows that you're taking good care of the place and fixing it up. But if you were someone who made a mess of their old house then watch out because....da boggie man's comin to get ya!
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Jon C.
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2008 · 74 posts · 14 votes
19y
Originally posted by "r2d246":
well if you ever bought a really old home then chances are someone died in it at some point anyway. It's no big deal if someone died in it. Just think they're ghost that's watching you right now probably isn't bothering you because it knows that you're taking good care of the place and fixing it up. But if you were someone who made a mess of their old house then watch out because....da boggie man's comin to get ya!

Thats fine and dandy. But this guy blew his brains out a year and a half ago in the bedroom, leaving a stain that outlines the bed. Thats on a whole different level for me. After reading the report, I would have driven home, packed a suitcase, and went to a hotel.
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Matt H
Member since 2008 · 452 posts · 18 votes
19y
Well why did you go read the report? Now you're gonna be haunted whenever you go into that room! And remember when you're sleeping at night, he's right there watching you in the shadows ready to take you with him to hell! He's comin to getcha!
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Les Williams
Real Estate Consultant · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2008 · 223 posts · 1 vote
19y
As a Realtor, If I know someone was killed in a house I would'nt show that house to anyone. But My question is, How would I know? Unless I lived in the Nieghborhood and was witness to the incident. I dont call the police dept every time I want to show a house. I dont talk to the Neighbors. this is not one of our listing questions that we ask the seller. It doesnt show on any listings or documentation. and if the seller decides not to disclose this info, How would the Realtor know.

In Georgia Were not allowed to disclose this info. But if I knew I would take my clients to another Area. unless they told me about this house, Then I would have to show it to them no matter what. I would also explain that they could ask for disclosure in writting and put the question on the disclosure.
there's ways of finding out information. If this was serious then, like your saying now you could have knocked on doors and ask questions befor signing the bottom line. I've had clients go to neighborhoods and sit on weekends just to see if its a quite neighborhood.

Never had anyone concerned about people dying in the house.
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Member since 2008 · 5 posts · 0 votes
19y
If I was you, I would seek damages for the carpet and also cleaning and/or replacing the floor underneath the carpet if neccessary. Even damages for emotional upset with your wife if she is that upset about it. Obviously if their is still stains, they did not do a good job cleaning and was probably not done properly.

Destrie Johnson
Solutions For You Loss Mitigation Services
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Dick Green
Residential Real Estate Broker · Conroe, TX · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 43 votes
19y
Texas requires disclosure if a violent crime took place in the home. On the other hand Landlords need not disclose deaths in a home to potential tenants. I recommend that you rent it out. I see a fantastic opportunity for landlords in the not so distant future. Make lemonade with your lemon property.
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OP
Member since 2008 · 14 posts · 0 votes
19y
I do have other rentals and I could see this as a viable rental due to the price I got on it. I am currently working with a lawyer on the issue of carpet replacement as it was not properly cleaned up. I am also likely to go after a small amount of damages for the amount I would lose if I disclosed this information when I sell. The only reason that I am really doing that is that I am subject to relocation at work and can't afford to take the risk of not being able to sell in the event that I am relocated. The amount of homes on the market makes this even worse. I got a good deal and could put the home at a good price point, however, I think that with all the homes on the market a lot of potential buyers will not consider the property where there was a shooting death in the master bedroom. I need to price considerably below market to have a good shot of moving the property. We are trying to quantify this right now. 15k? 20k? 5k? I think that it would be a significant amount of money 15-30k just due to the market conditions and the nature of the suicide that occured. Hopefully replacing the carpet will help my wife get over it and I don't wind up getting relocated in the next few years.
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Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
19y
hoeser369,

In all sincerity, it sounds to me like your wife needs some professional help to deal with her obsession. There are very few things in life that are certain, but one certainty is that everyone dies. Death is just a normal part of life and being freaked out by it to this extent is not normal.

I have dealt with literally thousands of potential tenants (about 40 calls per day) and not a single one of them ever asked me if anyone died in the property. NOT ONE!

The stains on the floor were probably rust. If you can see the entire outline of the bed on the floor, it is DEFINITELY not blood. The human body only contains 6 quarts of blood and once you're dead, the heart stops pumping the blood out. A lot of the blood doesn't leave the body, so you might have three or 4 quarts that were lost. If you pour a gallon of water in the center of a bed, do you think it would drip off every side of the bed? Of course not.

If the realtor knew your wife specifically wanted a house where no-one had died and sold it to you even though she knew that someone had committed suicide, then I would turn her into the state for her unethical behavior, if you can prove it. Otherwise, just sell or rent the house and move on. Life is too short for all of this lawsuit nonsense. Next time, buy a NEW house and you won't have to worry about it.

If the carpet wasn't properly cleaned up, then clean it. It doesn't take a lawyer to clean carpet. You don't need damages for the amount you would lose if you disclosed it to future sellers, BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT. 15K for damages? - put me on the jury! I'd award you a fifty dollar bill for the carpet cleaning!

Mike
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Member since 2008 · 1 post · 1 vote
19y
I also agree that the wife needs some serious psyhiatric help. While asking if a home has been the scene of a death in itself is not disturbing, this level she is taking it to certainly is.

Being an investor in an older historic area (Savannah), I come across what we call death houses all of the time. I've spent many countless hours in some of these houses - some of which have had dead people in them for many days or weeks. Not once have I fallen victim to any ghosts.

When I sell a house, I will disclose to the potential buyer that a death has occured in the home. I usually find that I don't have to disclose this death as it is usually public record. As this man and his wife has found, all you have to do is ask to see the incident report. I suggest any buyer utilize every available resource when purchasing a home - even calling the police to do a search on the address.

As far as the poster's children coming into contact with any biological matter, I can assure you this was cleaned up. Whenever a violent death occurs in a home, you can bet the medical examiner, funeral home, police, etc. will be contacting a disaster cleanup company. These companies have employees that are so well trained, they can completely clean a home in about two hours and you'd never be able to tell anything happened there.

For example, I recently purchased a home from an elderly woman's estate. No one had heard from this lady in months and the utilities had been shut off. After about five months when summer hit and the neighbors really noticed the smell, they called the police. This poor old lady had been on the living room floor in the hot Georgia heat for five months. You can imagine what she smelled and looked like.

Three months later when I bought the house from the old lady's estate, the smell was very much still there with a nasty stain on the living room carpet. A few coats of paint on the inside of the home and the services of a disaster clean up company, you can't even tell anything ever happened there. When I sold the house it smelled brand new.
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Dave Harcourt
Real Estate Professional · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 0 votes
11y
I am a Realtor in Cincinnati Ohio. By law we are required to disclose latent defects concerning the physical condition of the property of which we have knowledge. In the case of a murder or suicide, this event rarely affects the physical condition of the property and doesn’t constitute a latent defect. It could, however, be considered to be a material fact that Ohio law also requires be disclosed. So what’s a material fact? It’s a fact that could impact a buyer’s decision to purchase the property or the terms on which they purchase the property. While some buyers may not consider a murder or suicide to be material others may. Because this could be a material fact to some buyers, to avoid a potential lawsuit it is prudent to err on the side of caution and to disclose the murder or suicide to a buyer. The agent needs to discuss this issue with the seller and obtain his/her consent before doing so, however. Such consent from the seller and the disclosure to the buyer should be done in writing and should be made before the buyer is bound by a purchase agreement. If the seller will not permit disclosure of the event, the broker will need to determine if taking the listing is worth the risk of potentially having to defend a lawsuit by the buyer for failing to disclose what the buyer will allege was a material fact. The last thing I usually tell agents and sellers is that it’s never a question about whether or not the buyer will find out about the murder or suicide…it’s just a question of whether they will learn about it from you before they buy the house or from the next door neighbor afterwards. And trust me, buyers are always more upset when it’s the latter. Your difficulty could be in proving that the agent knew about the suicide and was withholding the information. The seller on the other hand had to know and should have disclosed it to prevent future problems.
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