Underwriters refusing my FHA loan because I own rentals.....

Underwriters refusing my FHA loan because I own rentals.....

Real Estate Broker · Watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Hey guys,

I was hoping I could get some advice into a situation I'm running into.  I'll try to keep summarize it as good as possible.

I've had a 4 unit building under contract with FHA since December. The lender I've been working with assured me this would pass underwriting no problem. 3 months have passed. A couple weeks ago they told me they couldn't go any further without my 2016 tax returns. Ok. I spend 3 real crappy days working on them and get them filed and turn it over to my lender. That same day I turned it in, I got a denial letter stating that too much time had passed and they couldn't proceed without my 2016 taxes. I call the lender and she tells me it's fine, we will resubmit the paperwork. Two weeks have passed and I'm still waiting for the e-mail.

In the meantime, I started shopping around with other lenders.  We got the packages together and the lender brought it to their underwriters for a preliminary approval and were told that I needed to write up a letter explaining why I was moving from a single family home to a multi-family.   So I explained how my work is 45 minutes away, and the commute (sometimes twice per day) is needlessly draining my life away.  I'm working with my broker to expand into a bigger city as well, which would turn my commute into 1 hour, 30 minute (one way).    It just doesn't make sense for me to continue living the small run down town I'm in.

Regardless they said No. They won't do the loan. When asked why, they said it was because I'm moving from a single family residence (one that I own) into a 4 unit. They said because I have a rental portfolio, this type of move is sketchy with FHA mortgage fraud being a big concern. I've called 3 other lenders and they all have told me the same thing.

What am I missing here?  I got the seller to sell this property to me at 80% market value.  It needs nothing. Each apartment rents for $800, so the mortgage is covered by just ONE apartment.  I have the credit score, debt/income ratio, and a legitimate work related need to move into another place.  I've never had an FHA mortgage before.  I own all of my properties free and clear.  You'd think these banks would be begging me to pay them interest.....  What am I doing wrong?  

Any tips, suggestions, recommendations would be GREATLY appreciated.  I'm going to lose this deal If I wait too much longer.  The seller has already been amazingly gracious by allowing me to hold this under contract for 3 months without commitment. 

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Loan Officer / Processor / Life & Health Agent · Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 757 votes
9y
Originally posted by @Michael Ablan:

Hey guys,

I was hoping I could get some advice into a situation I'm running into.  I'll try to keep summarize it as good as possible.

I've had a 4 unit building under contract with FHA since December. The lender I've been working with assured me this would pass underwriting no problem. 3 months have passed. A couple weeks ago they told me they couldn't go any further without my 2016 tax returns. Ok. I spend 3 real crappy days working on them and get them filed and turn it over to my lender. That same day I turned it in, I got a denial letter stating that too much time had passed and they couldn't proceed without my 2016 taxes. I call the lender and she tells me it's fine, we will resubmit the paperwork. Two weeks have passed and I'm still waiting for the e-mail.

In the meantime, I started shopping around with other lenders.  We got the packages together and the lender brought it to their underwriters for a preliminary approval and were told that I needed to write up a letter explaining why I was moving from a single family home to a multi-family.   So I explained how my work is 45 minutes away, and the commute (sometimes twice per day) is needlessly draining my life away.  I'm working with my broker to expand into a bigger city as well, which would turn my commute into 1 hour, 30 minute (one way).    It just doesn't make sense for me to continue living the small run down town I'm in.

Regardless they said No. They won't do the loan. When asked why, they said it was because I'm moving from a single family residence (one that I own) into a 4 unit. They said because I have a rental portfolio, this type of move is sketchy with FHA mortgage fraud being a big concern. I've called 3 other lenders and they all have told me the same thing.

What am I missing here?  I got the seller to sell this property to me at 80% market value.  It needs nothing. Each apartment rents for $800, so the mortgage is covered by just ONE apartment.  I have the credit score, debt/income ratio, and a legitimate work related need to move into another place.  I've never had an FHA mortgage before.  I own all of my properties free and clear.  You'd think these banks would be begging me to pay them interest.....  What am I doing wrong?  

Any tips, suggestions, recommendations would be GREATLY appreciated.  I'm going to lose this deal If I wait too much longer.  The seller has already been amazingly gracious by allowing me to hold this under contract for 3 months without commitment. 


From what you're saying it should be pretty straight forward since you're moving closer to your work. However, at this point since you have homes that are free and clear.  I would just cash out, then put down 20% and put yourself into a conventional loan. If the property truly does have an additional 20% of equity you can do a cash out refinance 6 months from now and get a good chunk of your down payment back.  The reason for waiting 6 months is because you will need new appraised value.

When you're moving from an SFR to a Multi-Unit you need to have an iron clad LOE (Letter of explanation) especially if the unit is smaller. I'm not saying you're committing fraud but a lot of people will do this type of transaction to avoid putting down the 25% required for a multi-family investment property. You would only need 20% since this would be owner occupied.

I hope that you can salvage this deal because it sounds like it's very favorable. Good luck and keep us all posted.

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  • Loan Officer / Processor / Life & Health Agent · Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 757 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Michael Ablan:

    Hey guys,

    I was hoping I could get some advice into a situation I'm running into.  I'll try to keep summarize it as good as possible.

    I've had a 4 unit building under contract with FHA since December. The lender I've been working with assured me this would pass underwriting no problem. 3 months have passed. A couple weeks ago they told me they couldn't go any further without my 2016 tax returns. Ok. I spend 3 real crappy days working on them and get them filed and turn it over to my lender. That same day I turned it in, I got a denial letter stating that too much time had passed and they couldn't proceed without my 2016 taxes. I call the lender and she tells me it's fine, we will resubmit the paperwork. Two weeks have passed and I'm still waiting for the e-mail.

    In the meantime, I started shopping around with other lenders.  We got the packages together and the lender brought it to their underwriters for a preliminary approval and were told that I needed to write up a letter explaining why I was moving from a single family home to a multi-family.   So I explained how my work is 45 minutes away, and the commute (sometimes twice per day) is needlessly draining my life away.  I'm working with my broker to expand into a bigger city as well, which would turn my commute into 1 hour, 30 minute (one way).    It just doesn't make sense for me to continue living the small run down town I'm in.

    Regardless they said No. They won't do the loan. When asked why, they said it was because I'm moving from a single family residence (one that I own) into a 4 unit. They said because I have a rental portfolio, this type of move is sketchy with FHA mortgage fraud being a big concern. I've called 3 other lenders and they all have told me the same thing.

    What am I missing here?  I got the seller to sell this property to me at 80% market value.  It needs nothing. Each apartment rents for $800, so the mortgage is covered by just ONE apartment.  I have the credit score, debt/income ratio, and a legitimate work related need to move into another place.  I've never had an FHA mortgage before.  I own all of my properties free and clear.  You'd think these banks would be begging me to pay them interest.....  What am I doing wrong?  

    Any tips, suggestions, recommendations would be GREATLY appreciated.  I'm going to lose this deal If I wait too much longer.  The seller has already been amazingly gracious by allowing me to hold this under contract for 3 months without commitment. 


    From what you're saying it should be pretty straight forward since you're moving closer to your work. However, at this point since you have homes that are free and clear.  I would just cash out, then put down 20% and put yourself into a conventional loan. If the property truly does have an additional 20% of equity you can do a cash out refinance 6 months from now and get a good chunk of your down payment back.  The reason for waiting 6 months is because you will need new appraised value.

    When you're moving from an SFR to a Multi-Unit you need to have an iron clad LOE (Letter of explanation) especially if the unit is smaller. I'm not saying you're committing fraud but a lot of people will do this type of transaction to avoid putting down the 25% required for a multi-family investment property. You would only need 20% since this would be owner occupied.

    I hope that you can salvage this deal because it sounds like it's very favorable. Good luck and keep us all posted.

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    I had this experience WAY back in 1993.  After several weeks, the loan was denied for rentals and I objected saying that they were clearly declared in the application and if that was an issue, the loan should have been denied IMMEDIATELY, not three weeks later!

    I alleged that they were churning applications to collect fees and had no intent to grant loans.  I threaten them with a complaint to the Board of RE in the state and to seek their license to be revoked.  I offered to accept my documents & loan fee as compensation for the illegal processing.

    Walked into the office two days latter and collected both.

    It is TRUE that this is 24 yrs later and the standards have changed, so verify your rights before you pull the trigger on the above suggestion.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Go conventional or ask Upen Patel
  • Real Estate Broker · Watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Shaun Weekes  I definitely considered that. One thing I was worried about would be the length of time it'd take to cash out on of the houses and then get through a conventional loan. How long could that that take?

    @Jeff B.  That sounds like a nightmare.....I pray to god that isn't happening with the first lender I used.  I have another deal with her (as an agent) that's going on 6 months...

    @Max T. It's funny you mention him.  I stumbled upon him last night when I was browsing around.  I'm going to contact him today.  Thanks for the tip!

  • Real Estate Agent · Westford, MA · Member since 2016 · 92 posts · 52 votes
    9y
    At my start of getting into rental real estate (prior to discovering Bigger Pockets unfortunately) I found a duplex property in a better town 20 min closer on the commuter rail to Boston. I had planned to buy the duplex and renovate while living in my single family home that I currently owned. Then I planned to either rent or sell that single family property depending on what the spring/ summer market looked like after we moved into the duplex. Mortgage underwriters said no shot of the FHA mortgage on the new property without my current house being under contract because they didn't believe I ever planned to move into the second property. Improved distance to work and lower cost of living didn't compare to having a single family with a garage apparently. My LOE was excellent and it didn't matter. I was too inexperienced and failed to continue shopping around, sold my single family THEN lost the duplex because it failed to appraise. Then I discovered Bigger Pockets and started learning about real estate, luckily now I have an excellent case for buying a quadplex bc I've been stuck in rental mode for a year and a half. There's a few mortgage folks on here and hopefully they can give you some feedback on how to qualify for you FHA financing.
  • Upen PatelPro Member
    Lender · Nationwide Lender · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 814 votes
    9y

    Hey! @Max T. Thanks for the tag man. We have to catch up.

  • Loan Officer / Processor / Life & Health Agent · Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 757 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Michael Ablan:

    @Shaun Weekes  I definitely considered that. One thing I was worried about would be the length of time it'd take to cash out on of the houses and then get through a conventional loan. How long could that that take?

    @Jeff B.  That sounds like a nightmare.....I pray to god that isn't happening with the first lender I used.  I have another deal with her (as an agent) that's going on 6 months...

    @Max T. It's funny you mention him.  I stumbled upon him last night when I was browsing around.  I'm going to contact him today.  Thanks for the tip!

     As long as you disclose what you're doing you can do both loans concurrently.  The cash out would need to close at least one day before the purchase.

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