Cash out re-fi options on a fourplex to use for the next deal

Cash out re-fi options on a fourplex to use for the next deal

Investor · Fridley, MN · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 25 votes

I’m finishing a renovation on a 4plex, and am trying to figure out my next step. I am going to do a cash out re-fi, but would appreciate advice from here. Appraisal should come in around $550k

Option 1

5.25% for a conventional loan

75% LTV for cash out. $412.5k

Solid conventional loan, lowest interest overall

Option 2

5.5% for commercial loan

75% LTV for cash out. $412.5k

5 year balloon, 25 year amortization

if I re-fi into a 30 year fixed at 5.25% in 5 years this looks like $64k more in interest over the life on the loan

If I re-fi into a 25 year loan, adds $170 more a month, but total interest is $5k less over the total 30 years. Probably a slight loss after the second set of closing costs, and that's with the gamble that interest rates don't rise.

Option 3

5.5% for commercial loan

65% LTV for cash out. $357.5k

5 year balloon, 25 year amortization

10% line of credit at prime +1

One plus here, I won’t be paying interest on money I’m not using.

A big concern is timing. I’m doing a walkthrough on an off market duplex on Monday, and it looks like a good deal. I probably wouldn’t have time for the conventional cash out to have money on hand to do the deal. I’m also having my wife do a walkthrough of two possible flips on Monday, both look like solid deals for our first flip. With the commercial re-fi, both could happen easily.

Are there other options I'm not seeing? I'd need about $38-45k for the duplex, and another $30k for one of the flips. Would a crowdfunding site provide the purchase capital and take 2nd position to get me into the deal? Or do I bite the bullet and pay more interest using a commercial loan to free up cash faster?

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  • Chris MasonPro Member
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    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @David S.:

    I’m finishing a renovation on a 4plex, and am trying to figure out my next step. I am going to do a cash out re-fi, but would appreciate advice from here. Appraisal should come in around $550k

    Option 1

    5.25% for a conventional loan

    75% LTV for cash out. $412.5k

    Solid conventional loan, lowest interest overall

    Option 2

    5.5% for commercial loan

    75% LTV for cash out. $412.5k

    5 year balloon, 25 year amortization

    if I re-fi into a 30 year fixed at 5.25% in 5 years this looks like $64k more in interest over the life on the loan

    If I re-fi into a 25 year loan, adds $170 more a month, but total interest is $5k less over the total 30 years. Probably a slight loss after the second set of closing costs, and that's with the gamble that interest rates don't rise.

    Option 3

    5.5% for commercial loan

    65% LTV for cash out. $357.5k

    5 year balloon, 25 year amortization

    10% line of credit at prime +1

    One plus here, I won’t be paying interest on money I’m not using.

    A big concern is timing. I’m doing a walkthrough on an off market duplex on Monday, and it looks like a good deal. I probably wouldn’t have time for the conventional cash out to have money on hand to do the deal. I’m also having my wife do a walkthrough of two possible flips on Monday, both look like solid deals for our first flip. With the commercial re-fi, both could happen easily.

    Are there other options I'm not seeing? I'd need about $38-45k for the duplex, and another $30k for one of the flips. Would a crowdfunding site provide the purchase capital and take 2nd position to get me into the deal? Or do I bite the bullet and pay more interest using a commercial loan to free up cash faster?

    Re: Option 1, assuming this is fixed rate Agency financing, I think someone misspoke. Do your thing for sure, but put in the back of your head the very strong possibility that you're going to hear "oh whoops we made an error, holding constant all other terms, we actually can't go above 70% LTV for this scenario," and that you might just hear this after you're already a few weeks into the process...

    Fannie LTV matrix, Freddie LTV matrix. That rate, assuming it's a 30YF and otherwise normal terms/conditions/fees/etc, makes it look a lot like a Fannie/Freddie loan, and not portfolio, except the LTV is off by 5%. Or there is something else I am overlooking.

  • Investor · Fridley, MN · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 25 votes
    8y

    @Chris Mason No, you're right. Quote I got on Friday was for 30 YF that they'd send to Fannie or Freddie. Guy must have misquoted it. Dang. So I need to figure out if the $27k I lose out on is worth changing calculations. 

    Another idea I had - LOC short term from commercial broker to do the new deals, then conventional cash out and pay off the LOC. And if I read your links correctly, I could do the 'limited cash out' re-fi with Fannie, and get to 75%.

  • Vandalia, MI · Member since 2018 · 569 posts · 264 votes
    8y

    I would be shocked if you could get 5.25% on commercial.  I think that is low the market is moving.

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