"High Cost Loan" Limits on West Virginia Rental Property

"High Cost Loan" Limits on West Virginia Rental Property

Member since 2018 · 150 posts · 140 votes

I'm getting mixed responses from lenders on a cash out refi on a property I own outright in WV. It should appraise for about $75K and I'd like to get $50-60K out of it, 30 year/fixed, Fannie/Freddie. I've been turned down by two who say that it "fails the 5% test", basically saying that the cost of the initial lending fees exceed a statutory limit of 5% of the loan amount. I have another lender, who is actually in WV, telling me that this doesn't apply to investment property, only owner-occupied. Who's right? Can I get a conventional loan on this? Here are some code excerpts:

31-17-1 (M)

"Primary mortgage loan" means any loan primarily for personal, family or household use that is secured by a mortgage, deed of trust or other equivalent consensual security interest on a dwelling as defined in Section 103(w) of the Truth in Lending Act or residential real estate upon which is constructed or intended to be constructed a dwelling;

31-17-8(M)(4)



(4) Require the borrower to pay, in addition to any periodic interest, combined fees, compensation or points of any kind to the lender and broker to arrange, originate, evaluate, maintain or service a loan secured by any encumbrance on residential property that exceed, in the aggregate, six percent of the loan amount financed, including any yield spread premium paid by the lender to the broker: Provided, That reasonable closing costs, as defined in section one hundred two, article one, chapter forty-six-a of this code, payable to unrelated third parties may not be included within this limitation: Provided, however, That no yield spread premium is permitted for any loan for which the annual percentage rate exceeds eighteen percent per year on the unpaid balance of the amount financed: Provided further, That if no yield spread premium is charged, the aggregate of fees, compensation or points can be no greater than five percent of the loan amount financed. The financing of the fees and points are permissible and, where included as part of the finance charge, does not constitute charging interest on interest. To the extent that this section overrides the preemption on limiting points and other charges on first lien residential mortgage loans contained in the United States Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980, 12 U. S. C. §1735f-7a, the state law limitations contained in this section apply;

I don't want to keep dinging my credit or waste time going down a dead end. 

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  • Real Estate Agent · Mount Nebo, WV · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 68 votes
    6y

    @Nate Bell - I’d love to chat about lenders with you. Should have no problem cashing out in Fayetteville, WV. Hit me up here and I’ll send you my cell number.

    Thanks!

    Tim

  • Chris MasonPro Member
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    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    6y

    What comes up is that these rules do not account for the fact that some scenarios are just priced really poorly, the hits just add up. On smaller loan amounts it's the points/fees that gets you (the 3% for owner occ and 5% for investment that you referenced), on larger loans it's the "average prime offer rate" (APOR) test, the computer is comparing the interest rate and APR on the cash out, 2-4 unit, high balance, high LTV, investment property (worst possible pricing, every individual item I just listed is a 'hit'), and wondering why it's X% higher than the owner occ 740 FICO 25% down $500k house (best possible pricing).

    Surprisingly, you see a LOT of variance in the interpretation of these rules, which translates into what is programmed into the various computer systems. Everyone will SAY "oh we follow the same rules just like everyone else," but then they all program different crap into their computers based on what their lawyer said the rule meant, the reality is that no one knows the "real" truth behind these rules, what counts in the 3% or 5%, or APOR, and what doesn't, and when. I had no idea there was this much variance back when I was a direct lender only working with one funding source!

    I've got one right now in the works, San Jose property, max LTV cash out rental bla bla bla, all the hits. Sent it to one of my lenders with more liberal interpretations, no issue with the APOR (part of why they are on my short list), but the appraisal came in horrible. Had to pivot to plan B. Their computer said "no," to the QM test, so did C, and these are all lenders with very similar "base" pricing, so it's not the "base" interest rate/fees that's getting them stuck, it's the question of which Fannie Mae direct "add ons" (see link above) are, and are not, "bona fide" this or that, which ones "count," which ones "don't," and when. Finally plan F's or G's computer said yes with a really wonky interest rate ending in like X.742% (not APR, interest rate, you read that correctly) or something, after escalating it up the flag pole a bit, and the appraisal on this one came in. Lucky for my client, I'm an independent mortgage broker, so this was all with one credit pull, but it did take about a week of mucking about, you can't run the stupid little computer test without ACTUALLY making the loan "live" in their system, and since no one understands what the rules even are, you can't simulate ahead of time.

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