REO Financing Deal involving IRA

REO Financing Deal involving IRA

Thiensville, WI · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes

Hi everyone, I'm new here and am looking for some advice to keep myself out of trouble. Maybe some of you have been through the same scenario...

I've been dealing on a foreclosure for 8 weeks now. I'll spare you the details but it's come down to the fact that bank doesn't want to deal with financing and wants a cash deal. I can get a loan all day long, but they don't want it. I've thrown them $400K cash. The last buyer paid $700K before he totally neglected it for 7 years.

I'd plan to fund the transaction and then open up a cash-out refi on the back end to have access to some percentage (probably 70 or 80%) of the $400K.

One of the ways I could do it would be by taking money out of my traditional IRA for 60 days. It's a rollover loophole where basically you get a check and get 60 days to roll it into another IRA. What you do with it during that 60-day period is completely up to you. I know that part is legit. I know it can be done and that is not in question.

Once I try to get a loan against the property after the closing, the bank is going to want to 'source' the funds to see where I came up with the $ to buy it. They're not stupid and will look at that transaction.

So here's the question: Will they care? and will it be a showstopper in terms or getting a Cash-Out Refi or even a HELOC?

Anybody tried this? Thanks for any input!

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Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
12y

@Chris Miracle

I would not use the 60-day rollover loophole to fund this deal. While technically you might be able to do it, realistically I don't think it would be possible for you. It is unlikely that you will be able to close on this deal and then refinance within 60 days. You are risking paying taxes and penalties on $400,000 early distribution. The result of that could be 40 to 50% in taxes and penalties (depending on your personal tax situation). There is high chance you that your plan will not go as planned and you will receive a bill from the IRS for $200K.

I am not an accountant and can't provide you with a tax advise, but highly recommend you talk with experienced CPA before you consider this strategy any further.

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  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    12y

    @Chris Miracle

    I would not use the 60-day rollover loophole to fund this deal. While technically you might be able to do it, realistically I don't think it would be possible for you. It is unlikely that you will be able to close on this deal and then refinance within 60 days. You are risking paying taxes and penalties on $400,000 early distribution. The result of that could be 40 to 50% in taxes and penalties (depending on your personal tax situation). There is high chance you that your plan will not go as planned and you will receive a bill from the IRS for $200K.

    I am not an accountant and can't provide you with a tax advise, but highly recommend you talk with experienced CPA before you consider this strategy any further.

  • Thiensville, WI · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Thanks Dmitriy. Yes, I'm aware of the potential MAJOR tax and penalty hit if I fail to come through, and that actual dollars I'd pull out would likely be closer to $250K. I am insulated against that hit somewhat because my parents have the cash available to put back into the IRA if I failed to secure the funds within the 60 days. I'm covered there and no one cares where the $ comes from when it flows back in just as long as it does!

    You're obvious next question is "Why not just use their $ on the front end of the deal then?" That is an option as well, but one I'm trying to avoid for their inconvenience of the whole thing. I guess I'm just a considerate guy :)

    So my question still is, would going that route be a red flag to a lender or not?

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    Why not go with your parents on the deal and pay them 3-4 origination points to make it worth their while and for you to avoind the risk of the big tax/penalty risk?

  • Accountant · Houston / Katy, TX · Member since 2014 · 35 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    @Dmitriy Fomichenko has it right on that you shouldn't and the penalties. This is a "prohibited transaction" because it is "self-dealing" in nature*. What the IRS means when you say that is that you shouldn't be able to mingle tax-advantaged and non-tax-advantaged funds to make sure people don't just take out the money and put it back whenever they want- otherwise, it's a tax advantage without a benefit (a funded retirement account). And the IRS really doesn't like tax deductions, much less those that don't accomplish their stated objective.

    The Anti-Money Laundering (AML) laws are the reason you should be worried about being caught.

    If you feel strongly about using your retirement funds to finance this deal, check out threads on self-directed IRAs. I'm not giving you advice to use one; I'm just saying it is an option that may fit your situation (see disclaimer).

    *Sometimes I think the wording is a terrible irony; if retirement funds aren't supposed to be about advantageous deals for yourself, then who are they supposed to be advantageous for?

    I'm not YOUR accountant and this advice is intended for general, informational purposes. You should consult with a CPA familiar with the laws of your jurisdiction for accounting or tax advice. An attorney may also be a good idea for legal questions. By using this advice, you agree to limit my liability to what you paid for it (that's $0, btw). Have a nice day.

  • Thiensville, WI · Member since 2014 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Thanks for all of the input guys. I knew it was risky but (for a while at least) the prospect of having it as an option seemed appealing. Appreciate it.

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