Looking for Advice with Subject-To with Delinquent Payments

Looking for Advice with Subject-To with Delinquent Payments

Real Estate Investor · Desoto, TX · Member since 2013 · 560 posts · 528 votes

I have done a subject to transaction in the past which turned out well. I have a current seller who is willing to do a subject to deal. Here is the scoop. Seller says he is ~$5,400 behind on payments. We discussed seller’s desire for at least ~$7K - $8K cash walkaway money plus buyer pays reinstatement amount ($5400). Seller stated the loan balance is ~$98K. Monthly payments are $920 (includes taxes, insurance). The Seller is an absentee owner and renting the property to a Section 8 tenant on month to month lease at ~$1,125.

I calculated the ARV at ~$165k- $170K, rent $1400 - $1500 range, based on comps. Based on verbal condition description of the property I estimated a ball park of $15K for repairs (seller claims it just paint and flooring but you know how that goes). My primary focus is buy and hold. My plan, I would not extend the lease of the current tenant and allow them to seek a new residence by end of school year. I would be looking to fix up the place, rent it to qualified tenant at market rent, at the 6 month ownership point (from purchase, not fix up) I would refinance at 75% LTV (could refi sooner but only at 70%).

So I am working this through my head. I would take the property with the $98K loan in place, pay the reinstatement amount, pay walk away cash to seller, pay for rehab, closing, etc. I estimate this at a ~$30K cash outlay. The rent received will cancel out the mortgage; however, I likely would have a month or two vacancy period with the rehab and turnover. If after 6 months the property appraises for ~$165K as estimated, I could get a loan of ~$123K - ~$93K ($98K- $5K reinstatement) owed to retire original loan, leaving ~$30K cash out which is essentially getting cash invested back and still holding the asset. A summary of the key numbers:

ARV: $165,000

75% LTV: $123,750

Rehab: ($15,000)

Cash to Seller ($7,000)

Reinstatement: ($5,400)

Closing Cost ($2,600)

Rent $1400 - $1500

My primary focus is getting the property under contract now and work out the details and numbers afterwards as information becomes official. The seller is going to want his cash at closing. The seller is showing me the property in the next day but I want a contract signed in advance if possible. How would you propose this deal to lock it up under contract? The subject to I did previously did not include the delinquent payment factor. What other questions or information should I be attempting to get from the Seller? Advice appreciated!

FYI, I would not be putting the Seller at risk. I could make their payment timely with no issue even if not receiving rental payments. 

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  • Real Estate Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2013 · 369 posts · 639 votes
    9y
    @Daren H.

    Thats a lot of cash to outlay on a loan that can get called due. I personally don't take Sub2 deals anymore unless the seller pays closing costs and brings 2-3 months worth of mortgage payments to the closing table. If they're willing to sell Sub2, they're generally out of other options (not enough equity to sell cash, not nice enough to sell retail etc)

    If the seller is 6+ months behind on his mortgage I think you could get a better deal by bringing him back to reality and better explaining the seriousness of his situation. i.e. he's about to lose the house! "If you let it foreclose, you get nothing" ..and im sure the local HUD office would love to hear that he's collecting government subsidized housing payments while letting the house go into foreclosure.  

    Just my 2 cents.

  • Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2011 · 56 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed just curious - have you had loans called due and that is why you don't do it anymore?

  • Real Estate Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2013 · 369 posts · 639 votes
    9y

    @Nick L.  I fortunately haven't had one called due, but as you stated with a seller already into the foreclosure process the loan is already on the lender's radar, why risk your capital, right?
    I stopped bringing any cash into Sub2 deals when i realized that i was letting sellers take the drivers seat in the negotiations, as i suspect is the case above. In my first few, I was looking at it as the seller was doing ME a favor by letting me have their house.. when in reality I was doing THEM a favor by assuming responsibility for the problem THEY created.

  • Real Estate Investor · Burlington, VT · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Daren H.  Are you able to get a "refinance / cash out" loan though, if you don't own the property?  Would it be a purchase, as you'd officially pay off the sellers loan at that time and you take title?  If so, I'm not sure they would allow any cash out at that point (maybe 6-12 months later).

  • Real Estate Investor · Desoto, TX · Member since 2013 · 560 posts · 528 votes
    9y

    I am not all that concerned about the loan being called due; however, I recognize the risk and perceive it to be very low.  Besides, I could quick sale the property or come up with funds to pay off the loan (not what I want though). I am trying to use the seller's financing over more expensive funds. Other points are noted, thanks! Just looking for ideas.

    @Tom S. In a Subject To I would actually own the property. Deed would be granted to me, but the loan would stay in place with the Seller. I can actually do a refi the day after closing the subject to transaction but you are limited on the LTV and cash out. Not want I want though. I would be looking to refi after 6 months and due a normal cash out refi at 75% LTV. I have refinanced out of a subject in the past year.

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