Solo 401k loan....pros/cons, compared to hard money

Solo 401k loan....pros/cons, compared to hard money

Dublin, OH · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote

Anyone have any thoughts on a loan to myself from a Solo 401K plan?  As I sit here thinking about creative ways to fund a deal, including hard money, I have come across the idea of a Solo 401K plan and loaning to myself from the plan.

Key facts that I can find are: 5-year term (normal prin+interest payments required at least quarterly), Larger of $50K or 50% of vested balance is the max loan, no credit check or specificity required about intended use of funds, failure to make payments/payoff on time are that plan treats it as a taxable distribution (early in my case), can loan at a reasonable interest rate which sounds like can be a prime+ type rate.....last WSJ prime was 3/22/18 at 4.75%. Add 2% and you're borrowing at 6.75%.....no HML will touch that given my newbie status. That's a quarterly payment of $2,400 approx. for the quarters I owe the loan, with remaining principal repaid on sale of property.

I'm sure there are downsides, I just can't think of them when compared to hard money.

0Reply
14 views

Most Popular Reply

Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
8y

@Andrew James,

you are looking at this only from one side, yet for you personally it would cost less to take the loan at 5.75% rather than paying 10-12% to HML.

However, would it be best for your 401k? If you take a personal loan from your 401k it would be making 5.75% return, but it you turn around and lend this money to some other investor who needs the money and can make 10-12% return, tax deferred, I think the latter is clearly more beneficial to your 401k and ultimately to you. 

I personally would rather try to use OPM and put my own money to the best possible use such as doing private lending, investing in syndication or note fund, or even index mutual fund... all of those would yield me over 10% return. And at the time time I would find someone with some cash (either personal savings or retirement funds) sitting in money market account losing to inflation and offer them 6-8% return to lend to me secured by real estate. This would be win-win. 

See this reply in the discussion

8 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Andrew James:

    Anyone have any thoughts on a loan to myself from a Solo 401K plan?  As I sit here thinking about creative ways to fund a deal, including hard money, I have come across the idea of a Solo 401K plan and loaning to myself from the plan.

    Key facts that I can find are: 5-year term (normal prin+interest payments required at least quarterly), Larger of $50K or 50% of vested balance is the max loan, no credit check or specificity required about intended use of funds, failure to make payments/payoff on time are that plan treats it as a taxable distribution (early in my case), can loan at a reasonable interest rate which sounds like can be a prime+ type rate.....last WSJ prime was 3/22/18 at 4.75%. Add 2% and you're borrowing at 6.75%.....no HML will touch that given my newbie status. That's a quarterly payment of $2,400 approx. for the quarters I owe the loan, with remaining principal repaid on sale of property.

    I'm sure there are downsides, I just can't think of them when compared to hard money.

    401k really isn't a loan...it's your 401k investing in y our deal. Would you rather pay interest to the HML, or yourself?

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    8y

    @Andrew James,

    you are looking at this only from one side, yet for you personally it would cost less to take the loan at 5.75% rather than paying 10-12% to HML.

    However, would it be best for your 401k? If you take a personal loan from your 401k it would be making 5.75% return, but it you turn around and lend this money to some other investor who needs the money and can make 10-12% return, tax deferred, I think the latter is clearly more beneficial to your 401k and ultimately to you. 

    I personally would rather try to use OPM and put my own money to the best possible use such as doing private lending, investing in syndication or note fund, or even index mutual fund... all of those would yield me over 10% return. And at the time time I would find someone with some cash (either personal savings or retirement funds) sitting in money market account losing to inflation and offer them 6-8% return to lend to me secured by real estate. This would be win-win. 

  • Dublin, OH · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    Thanks Joe - Obviously still gathering info, but I'm specifically talking about a loan from a "solo 401K".  Loan terms, prin+interest amortazation, required quarterly payments.  Yes, my 401K is investing in my deal......not as an equity partner but as a lender.  I think they are different from what I've read.

    Dmitriy - Yes, absolutely 5.75% is FAR cheaper money than anything HML and far easier to access cash than any other source of financing. On your "best for my 401k question", that depends on your view. I believe I can significantly beat the market, private money lending, and other rates of return with the deal I am chasing. Also, longer-term, the net proceeds from this deal will fund future deals and better cost of funds on those deals, which done right will help me continue to beat 401k returns. On the finding private money side, yes, absolutely 100%.....just on the next deal or one after. Overall, I'm taking a long view of this endeavor....this is a very expensive deal, but not as bad when I consider the deals that I can roll these net proceeds into and compound from there. The hardest deal to finance is the first I am finding.

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    8y

    Well Andrew, it looks that you got all the facts... just run the numbers and make the decision.

    Also, one item I couldn't help but to make a comment: 

    Your said "my 401k is investing in my deal", that is not the case. You personally taking a participant loan from your 401k and then you personally investing in your own deal (not your 401k). Using your 401k to invest directly into your deal would violate prohibited transaction rules:

    https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-particip...

  • Dublin, OH · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    Really helpful points and perspectives.  Thank you!

  • Justin WindhamPro Member
    Banker · Nationwide · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Andrew James

    It seems you have a good handle on the requirements for a Solo 401k loan. One thing I'll add is that for your next participant loan, the amount you can borrow will be reduced by the highest outstanding loan balance in the previous 12 month period. However, if the hardest deal to finance is your first one, the participant loan can get the ball rolling for you and you might not need to borrow again so soon.

  • Dublin, OH · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    "I see" said the blind man.  Did not catch that part.  Thank you.  I will probably work on private money sooner than later too, just don't have enough confidence in the whole process on this first deal.

  • Retirement Accounts Attorney · Southfield, MI · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Andrew James

    Borrowing from a solo 401k plan is one of the many features of a solo 401k plan. 

    While you are paying your 401k back, the downside may be that you are not investing the 401k funds in investments that could make a high return for your solo 401k plan.

    To learn more about the solo 401k loan rules, please see the following. 

    https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/retirement-pl...

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.