Secured stock loans to buy rentals...

Secured stock loans to buy rentals...

Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2011 · 15 posts · 4 votes

So I know secured loans are not a new concept. And from previous threads on here, they seem to be fairly unpopular.

But at least for my situation, they seem like reasonable ways to finance rentals without having to liquidate stocks.

Here's a summary of my situation and my thinking, I'd appreciate comments on where my flaws in the analysis are:

- 8 conventionally financed properties, so I can only buy 2 more using conventional mortgages.
- 12 mo expense reserves in liquid accounts (both for proof of funds and downpayments for new purchases)
- Rest of my assets are in stocks/investment accounts.

Idea: Since it looks like secured loans can be had for fixed prime rates (~3.25% currently) and various stocks/bonds are currently yielding similar if not higher dividends in my portfolio. I can put this money to work twice by taking secured stock loans out against high dividend stocks.

Concrete example: lets use BND (A total bond ETF, currently yielding: 3.31%)

EV analysis:
No secured loan: Stock Dividend + Appreciation

Secured loan: Stock Dividend + Appreciation - Fixed Loan Interest + Rental cash flow

So lets say I borrow money @ 3.25% to buy a rental house that yields 8%. The dividends off from BND pay for the fixed loans, so assuming no market value change in the price of the security, this is roughly equivalent to selling stocks and buying in cash.

But lets look at the other interesting cases:
1. You use a stock that yields higher than the fixed loan rate. You now are free rolling on the rental and stock appreciation.
2. The stock used as collateral goes up in value, now you net the appreciation + dividend differential + rental cash flow.
3. The collateral stock drops a bit, but not enough to justify default, this scenario is no different than normal investing losses, and I also have an 8% rental which only helps.
4. The stock used as collateral drops a ton, it sounds like you can default with no hit to your credit or anything, the bank keeps your stock, and you keep your house. This scenario is no different than just selling your stocks immediately and buying the property free and clear except you paid interest for some time as well (but dividends offset this to a large degree).

Conclusion:
So long as Rental return > fixed interest rate for the secured loan, this is a clear win + gives you extra capital to keep in the stock market.

This seems great to me, it makes sense to me that banks would want to make these loans, as they are getting tangible assets that they can easily sell/recover. And they are still making prime by lending you effectively your own money.

What am I missing here? This seems almost too good to be true given that I already have stocks and rentals. This would just let me have more of both without increasing my risk?

That just doesn't seem possible.

Thanks,
-Hao

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Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
15y

Absolutely and this is a concept that can be called "creative financing"....very good! But, you number three above: You loan is not in "default" when you collateralized portfolio drops in value there will be a call of an amount to bring the laon in line with the loan to value of the security pledged. This is a lump sum amount, not a payment that would be covered by rents as an additional payment to principal might be.

Most newbies think creative financing is manipulating lending rules or trying to get around requirements, IMO and such is not the case. This is a good example of a creative financing method.

Good luck!

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  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Absolutely and this is a concept that can be called "creative financing"....very good! But, you number three above: You loan is not in "default" when you collateralized portfolio drops in value there will be a call of an amount to bring the laon in line with the loan to value of the security pledged. This is a lump sum amount, not a payment that would be covered by rents as an additional payment to principal might be.

    Most newbies think creative financing is manipulating lending rules or trying to get around requirements, IMO and such is not the case. This is a good example of a creative financing method.

    Good luck!

  • Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2011 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    15y

    I'm not sure its standard that there's a call if the collateral drops, I'm calling banks today and getting more details.

    The one drawback is the short loan terms, looks like the max fixed length is around 12 years, which results in fairly large payments. i.e. $840/mo on $100k @ 3.25 for 12 years...

  • Commercial Loan Officer · Southern Maine, ME · Member since 2009 · 782 posts · 415 votes
    15y

    Typically, if the stock falls below a certain threshold for a set number of consecutive days(typically 3-5) you have to kick in the cash to bring it back up above the margin.

    There are also programs where you can obtain a line of credit against your portfolio.

  • Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2011 · 252 posts · 56 votes
    15y

    Borrowing on margin can be a very good way to leverage your money. Typically they allow you to borrow about 50% against US equities, 70-80 % bonds and 80-95% on US treasuries. Treasuries aren't paying anything so I wouldn't recommend borrowing against them so if you do I'd say stick with borrowing against your equity portfolio.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Anaheim, CA · Member since 2010 · 188 posts · 118 votes
    15y

    Why are you doing it though the bank instead of directly through your brokerage account? I use Interactive Brokers and I'm able to borrow up to 85% of my stock portfolio. The rate is not fixed and adjusts daily. I use them for shorter term loans against my stock and the current rate is 1.1% above 100K.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    15y

    A few years ago, I had a small local bank in my area that was willing to do a loan with me similar to what the OP described, so this is definitely an option to consider. As posted by others, if the stock / bond certificates are being held by a brokerage, then that brokerage will probably be willing to do some kind of loan as well.

  • Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2011 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    15y

    Chris, when I looked at margin rates for my brokerages (Fidelity/Wells Fargo/Sharebuilder/AMTD) they were all very high, like roughly 6%, and I'd like to use this as a form of longer term fixed financing, not short term line of credit.

    I already have a 250K HELOC @ 1.01% under prime which I can use for short term floats.

    I like the ability to take out a fixed 3.25% 12 year loan since I don't believe rates can stay this low forever.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Hao Kung:
    This would just let me have more of both without increasing my risk?

    That just doesn't seem possible.

    Thanks,
    -Hao

    I think the flaw in your logic is with the passage above. More leverage equals more risk...plain and simple. If you end up borrowing a lot compared to the asset value of your stock portfolio small movements in the price will necessitate margin calls. Those margin calls represent MORE risk than you would have absent the leverage. The NOI from your rental portfolio will partially offset this risk, but the risk is still real.

    It sounds like a good use of leverage as long as you don't go crazy with it. I have seen these types of products before, but haven't used them to date. You may consider procuring a line of credit to use for margin calls as well. That would still keep you liquid in the event you had a large margin call.

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    15y

    I have been doing this very thing for over 2 years now, leveraging a stock potfolio via a 15 year loan (adjustable) and I use the funds to flip. Since the cost is well under 5% and I make 60%-120% per year with the money, it is a no brainer!

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