Previous Owner Not Vacating After Shortsale. Legal Options?

Previous Owner Not Vacating After Shortsale. Legal Options?

Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes

Situation: I've got this deal I'm working on where a shortsale was initiated by the current owner. The sales price ($37,000) was approved by the lender and we made an offer for $35,000 that was accepted. I got the inspection (came out great) and the appraisal (came in at $40,000) done.

We were set to close on April 25th and the current owners were to vacate the property by that time to deliver the property vacant. I found out a week ago that the current owner is refusing to leave/unable to find a place to move prior to closing.

Salvaging Deal: After some haggling, we got the asset manager at the bank(and the investors) to agree to drop the sales price to $32,500 and they will be paying up to 5% of my closing costs. This is to reduce my risk of damages/eviction costs. Supposedly the tenant has agreed to leave within 30 days after closing (which potentially means nothing) . I'm at the point now where I'm trying to decide if I should go ahead with this.

Concerns:

1. Current owner may not leave as agreed and therefore I have to evict them. They aren't tenants who didn't pay late, and It's not like I will own the note and they are defaulting on it. Looking into the process now.

2. Property may be damaged on their way out, resulting in more costs.

3. Are there any laws protecting previous owners being foreclosed on/going through a shortsale that will prevent me from being able to get them out of the property quickly?

Any thoughts/advice on the situation would be appreciated! Tags: Milwaukee - Wisconsin

@Dawn Anastasi , @Ramon Jenkins

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
12y

Here's my suggestion, having gone through this several times...

First, don't take title until they're out, unless you will be happy fighting for the property for the next couple months (see Will's thread on "the tenants from hell"). Second, offer them cash for keys, but let them know that they won't get the cash until the place is vacant and the keys are handed over (even if it's before closing)

Unfortunately, there are people out there who don't "get it" and don't realize that they're getting kicked out sooner or later and they would just be passing up free cash by not leaving now.

I once had a seller who was getting $20,000 from the bank to move (I was buying the property for $95,000!), and they still refused to leave until it was made abundantly clear that they wouldn't get the money until they moved out and the house was going to foreclosure less than a week later (at which point they'd lose the house and the money).

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Investor · Hampton, VA · Member since 2012 · 562 posts · 109 votes
    12y

    Can you delay or reschedule the closing until you have confirmation that the occupants have vacated the property?

  • Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Laws very by state but I would recommend offering them Cash for Keys.

    They probably need enough for 1st months rent and security deposit. Make payment to them contingent on their being out by x date (I would go for 2 weeks) and the property to be "broom swept" clean, free from any excessive damage etc.

    If you can do it this way you are more likely to get your property sooner and in better condition and for a lower cost then going the legal route.

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
    12y

    @Andrea M. That's definitely an option. I'm still waiting to hear back from the seller as to whether or not the seller actually plans to move out.

    @Bob Estler Great idea, I'll have to open dialogue with the current owner to see if this is what's really holding them back from moving.

    Thank you both.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Mehran:

    Vacating a property after foreclosure and after a short sale are two totally different things. If this deal is a short sale, then the seller will be closing with you. Has the seller actually signed their docs and deeds and returned them to escrow? IMO, if they haven't done so by now, they're not going to until they find a place to move to.

    If they have signed the deed and it's possible to close the deal, you'll have a tenant with no lease agreement, essentially a tenant at will. Don't know anything about evicting a tenant at will in WI.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mehran K.:
    @Andrea M. That's definitely an option. I'm still waiting to hear back from the seller as to whether or not the tenant actually plans to move out.

    @Bob E. Great idea, I'll have to open dialogue with the current tenant to see if this is what's really holding them back from moving.

    Thank you both.

    I'm confused. Is the seller living in the property, or the tenant? In the first post you say the seller is still there. And above you say the seller is waiting to hear from the tenant?

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
    12y

    I'm confused. Is the seller living in the property, or the tenant? In the first post you say the seller is still there. And above you say the seller is waiting to hear from the tenant?

    Just corrected, it's the current owner living in the property. I'm so used to saying tenant :)

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mehran K.:

    I'm confused. Is the seller living in the property, or the tenant? In the first post you say the seller is still there. And above you say the seller is waiting to hear from the tenant?

    Just corrected, it's the current owner living in the property. I'm so used to saying tenant :)

    OK. So has the owner/seller submitted their docs and signed deed to escrow so that the deal can close? This discussion may be moot if they haven't.

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
    12y

    Thanks @Account Closed , that's exactly the information I was hoping to receive.

    So basically if the current owner doesn't sign the deed, we won't be able to close anyway because the lender won't have the right to sell the property unless they foreclose?

    Will have to find out where we're at with that.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mehran K.:
    Thanks @Account Closed , that's exactly the information I was hoping to receive.

    So basically if the current owner doesn't sign the deed, we won't be able to close anyway because the lender won't have the right to sell the property unless they foreclose?

    Will have to find out where we're at with that.

    Yup. If this is a short sale, then the seller signs the deed and sells you the house, not the lender. Can't imagine a seller returning their paperwork and deed to escrow if they had no place to go. That being said, maybe they submitted the deed before they became aware of the challenge of relocating?

    Are you certain it's a short sale and not an REO?

  • Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Doing cash for keys might help them got off the fence and sign. Assuming long as the deal makes sense after the additional cost.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    this is definitely a short sale. the current owner i think didnt fully get themselves ready to go. when i was there for the inspection nothing was boxed up yet. i think it finally kicked in that she really needed to move. sort of like head in the sand syndrome. i am actually concerned that because she has so much stuff it will take a while to move.

    apologies for the formatting. im posting from my phone.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:
    this is definitely a short sale. the current owner i think didnt fully get themselves ready to go. when i was there for the inspection nothing was boxed up yet. i think it finally kicked in that she really needed to move. sort of like head in the sand syndrome. i am actually concerned that because she has so much stuff it will take a while to move.

    apologies for the formatting. im posting from my phone.

    My experience with many sellers is that they have no place to go and no resources to move or put stuff in storage. And that's even when I'm giving them several thousand dollars to move before closing, or even when I've given them huge down payments on seller carry backs and close the deal with them still in the house. So if Mehran's seller isn't getting any cash out of the deal as is typical in short sales, it seems pretty unlikely that vacating the property could go smoothly.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    i did ask the question as to how much the seller is getting. one short sale i bought the seller did get a bunch of money to move. there are so many other houses and opportunities that if something doesnt work out well just move on rather than fight.

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
    12y

    We put a question into the seller agent to get all the right info. Thanks everyone. Hopefully it pans out. If not, I just learned a ton and we'll move on to the next one :)

  • Apopka, FL · Member since 2012 · 207 posts · 120 votes
    12y

    I had one like this earlier this year. It actually got very ugly before it was over. By the end the seller was accusing me of colluding with the bank to get his property cheaply.

    I didn't have to give cash to get them to move, but they took the appliances with them. But by that time I was just glad to see them go.

    After that I will never buy a short sale where I can't walk thru an empty house 3 days before closing. That was actually in the contract this time but I waived it because they said they would be out 2 days after closing. Never again.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    I have actually been through 2 short sales. The first one was the one where the seller was an older woman and I did not get a "broom swept" house on closing. But the bank paid to make sure everything was out even after closing. I lost a few days waiting for all the junk to be taken out. Unfortunately, the old woman was moved to a nursing home and died shortly afterwards.

    The second one wasn't an issue.

    This one Mehran is talking about has a complication.

    So short sales come in all flavors.

  • Real Estate Agent · Milwaukee County, WI · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 525 votes
    12y

    Current owner : has not signed any documents for closing

    At this point in time: owner of note have not offered cash for key

  • Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Account Closed has it right. They have no resources and don't have a place to move to. The advantages of a short sale over a foreclosure as far as credit scores go is almost meaningless to someone who hasn't figured out where to live. The low price of this property and probably low mortgage payment the current owner couldn't meet, further illustrates the money issues they have.

    Unless this property is in a very LL friendly jurisdiction and you can get an eviction quickly, then I'd make absolutely certain the place is empty before closing. I'd also do a walk through immediately before closing and change the locks immediately afterward.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Ramon Jenkins:
    Current owner : has not signed any documents for closing

    At this point in time: owner of note have not offered cash for key

    Are you all working on the same deal? Is there like a party over there in Milwaukee?

    If the docs and deeds have not been turned into escrow it may be awhile. The only motivating force might be the listing agent. The sellers are better off waiting out the foreclosure at this point, no? More free housing and no eviction for several months. And possibly cash for keys if the property is bought by a 3rd party at sale.

    More fuel for my belief that short sales don't benefit borrowers Unless the homeowner qualifies for one of the moving money programs, they get no benefit. It's mostly spin to push that a foreclosure is worse than a short sale IMO. Short sales benefit buyers looking for a discount and agents.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Ramon Jenkins:
    Current owner : has not signed any documents for closing
    At this point in time: owner of note have not offered cash for key

    Are you all working on the same deal? Is there like a party over there in Milwaukee?

    OMG, LOL!!

    I thought I was losing my mind, or that the OP kept changing photos/identities.

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed , You're missing the party! J/K. Ramon is my buyers agent who writes up the offers and deals with the seller. Dawn helps me locate/evaluate deals and manages the properties afterwards. I've even partnered with her on a few deals.

    So basically, we're a team :)

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y

    Here's my suggestion, having gone through this several times...

    First, don't take title until they're out, unless you will be happy fighting for the property for the next couple months (see Will's thread on "the tenants from hell"). Second, offer them cash for keys, but let them know that they won't get the cash until the place is vacant and the keys are handed over (even if it's before closing)

    Unfortunately, there are people out there who don't "get it" and don't realize that they're getting kicked out sooner or later and they would just be passing up free cash by not leaving now.

    I once had a seller who was getting $20,000 from the bank to move (I was buying the property for $95,000!), and they still refused to leave until it was made abundantly clear that they wouldn't get the money until they moved out and the house was going to foreclosure less than a week later (at which point they'd lose the house and the money).

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @Mehran K.

    I'm changing my rule - just for you brother. It used to be - don't buy $30,000 houses, but I'm changing it to - don't buy $40,000 houses :)

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
    12y

    @J Scott Thanks for weighing in. I'm starting to think it may be just better to move on to the next deal rather than wait around to see if the current owner will actually leave (even if she agrees to). Per the contract, the last day to close is supposed to be 04/25/14 and we haven't made any extensions.

    I believe the bank is trying to offer her cash for keys right now, we'll see what comes of it.

    @Ben Leybovich Ay yay yay Ben! As J mentioned, he's dealt with this many times on properties worth more :) Will does high end flips and has had the same problem.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by Mehran K.:
    I believe the bank is trying to offer her cash for keys right now, we'll see what comes of it.

    Mehran: Please keep us posted how it goes. If indeed the lender is offering the owner/borrower cash for keys, IMO they really want to be rid of the loan and don't want to take it back at foreclosure. Makes me wonder if you were over paying. :)

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