Getting conflicting info about tax deductions for my rentals

Getting conflicting info about tax deductions for my rentals

Investor · Eagle River, AK · Member since 2015 · 121 posts · 45 votes

I've read some marvelous advice here about a variety of topics, so I'm going to ask this question that is puzzling me about the tax deductibility of my rental expenses.

I've been told that I can't deduct expenses due to my rental units (including depreciation etc.) UNLESS I am the property manager and have documented that I have spent more time managing, fixing, cleaning etc the property than all the other people COMBINED. For example, if I have an electrician, plumber and painter who work on my property and they each put in 100 hours per year for a total of 300 hours, I have to document that I've spent more than 300 hours in the year in order for me to qualify as the property manager in that tax year.

There is apparently a remote tiny exception in the IRS tax code that allows me to spend only 100 hours per year, again providing no one else spends more than that working on my property. The issue has to do with deductions on my taxes and if I don't have the maximum hours then I'm not considered the manager and can't deduct the expenses.

Can any of you explain to me if this is so or not and help me better understand the deductibility or non-deductibility of expenses? Oh, by the way, I own one property in my IRA, which has a PM (because the IRS requires a PM) and no, I realize those expenses can't be charged against my taxes, but I have another rental that is not in my IRA and I think I'm the manager of it, but am often reminded that I must do this 100 hour thing!!

The one rental not in my IRA is not in any kind of LLC, or S Corp or any legal category like that. I have recently established a new corporation because I want to be buying more rental real estate this year but so far it's just a lot of paperwork with no assets or anything in it.

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Nicole A.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y

@Dolly CaswellIt sounds like you might be trying to do your taxes on your own? I tried that even using the TurboTax Business edition, but I tell you, it won't give you the best results. I highly recommend a good CPA that knows about rental property tax laws. Their cost is VERY worth the money they save you in taxes!

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  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    10y

    kinda having a hard time following your post, however, I think you are saying you can't deduct expenses unless you are a property manager.

    you 100% can, and should, deduct expenses if you are just the landlord, including depreciation.

    maybe you are trying to get the professional exemption with so many hours involved in real estate. that, most likely, would not qualify with just one rental.

    check with a CPA.

  • CPA · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Dolly Caswellit sounds like you are going for the real estate professional designation. First, you must work 750 hours in a real estate trade or business. Second, you must work more in that real estate trade or business than you do on anything else (this often disqualifies individuals with a W-2 job). 

    After you meet that threshold, you must them demonstrate you materially participated in your rentals. There are seven tests, you only need to meet one of them. The test you describe will likely be the easiest for you to meet. 

    Only one you meet all three of these thresholds, may you write-off passive losses against your ordinary income.

    However, you will still deduct all expenses, depreciation, amortization, etc. on your Schedule E. If these deductions create a passive loss that you cannot use because your income is too high and you are unable to meet the above thresholds, your losses will be carried forward into the future until they can be used by offsetting future income or gain on sale.

  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 374 posts · 120 votes
    10y

    What you heard, Dolly, was someone trying to explain whether your real estate is an active or passive activity per the IRS' definitions:

    Passive Activity Limits

    In most cases, all rental real estate activities (except those of certain real estate professionals, discussed later) are passive activities. For this purpose, a rental activity is an activity from which you receive income mainly for the use of tangible property, rather than for services. For a discussion of activities that are not considered rental activities, see Rental Activities in Pub. 925.

    Deductions or losses from passive activities are limited. You generally cannot offset income, other than passive income, with losses from passive activities. Nor can you offset taxes on income, other than passive income, with credits resulting from passive activities. Any excess loss or credit is carried forward to the next tax year. Exceptions to the rules for figuring passive activity limits for personal use of a dwelling unit and for rental real estate with active participation are discussed later.

    For a detailed discussion of these rules, see Pub. 925.

  • Investor · Eagle River, AK · Member since 2015 · 121 posts · 45 votes
    10y

    @Brandon Hall, thanks for your info and no, I don't think I'm trying to be a "real estate professional" which I've read about.  I'm just a property owner with some income that I'd like to write off expenses against. @Stone Teran, I appreciate your definition of passive activity. I'll have to read Pub 925 again. The word "passive" is what throws me, sounds like I'm kicking back in the hammock, sipping tea and someone else is taking care of business...which is NOT the case! haha 

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Dolly CaswellIt sounds like you might be trying to do your taxes on your own? I tried that even using the TurboTax Business edition, but I tell you, it won't give you the best results. I highly recommend a good CPA that knows about rental property tax laws. Their cost is VERY worth the money they save you in taxes!

  • Investor · Eagle River, AK · Member since 2015 · 121 posts · 45 votes
    10y

    Scott W. thanks for your input. I'm not trying to get the professional exemption, just a little owner with a property and would like to buy more, but I need to know how to treat them tax-wise in the future. Fortunately, Brandon Hall, CPA from DC replied and provided info!!

  • Investor · Pawleys Island, SC · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 837 votes
    10y

    @Dolly Caswell,

    Let me reinforce what others have already said.  What you have read or heard is absolutely wrong for your situation.  You just have to be an owner of the property and the person who pays the bills to deduct your rental expenses from your rental income.  There are no minimum participation hours required to be actively managing your property.  You can even use a property manager, but reserve the final approval on the major decisions such as how much rent to charge, approve repairs/replacements, and accept tenants that pass your screening criteria.

    You mentioned that you formed a corporation to hold future rental acquisitions.  I believe @Brandon Hallwill confirm that a corporation is the worst choice for a rental property title holding entity. If you feel you must have a business entity as you are just starting out, then consider the LLC treated as a partnership or as a disregarded entity for federal income tax purposes. Your financial planner, your estate planner, your CPA, your attorney, and your insurance agent should all participate in a discussion about the business entity that best suits your circumstances. Maybe their best advice will be to wait until you are very much richer before you need to worry about a business entity.

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