Reporting Personal-Title Properties on a Partnership Tax Return

Reporting Personal-Title Properties on a Partnership Tax Return

Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 10 votes

My husband and I are members in an LLC partnership that owns several rental properties. We also have a handful of properties that are titled in our personal names because we have mortgages on them that had to be in our names. We do the accounting for all the properties as part of the business. They are all under one Quickbooks file. The LLC receives all the rents in its checking account and also pays all expenses, including the mortgages that are in our personal names. So far we have been reporting all the income and expenses on our partnership 1065 tax return, rather than filing a schedule E on our personal return. The CPA we worked with last year told us that this was a fine practice, as long as we are accounting for and reporting everything and paying all the taxes we owe (we are), that it is okay to report it all on the partnership return where we are actually running the accounting, rather than dividing the properties up between the 1065 and the 1040 according to the name on the property titles. Since the partnership is a pass-through entity, it doesn't make any difference in the amount of tax that we owe - just keeps the accounting simpler to do it all in one place. But before we continue any further with this practice, I wanted to ask the community whether anyone else has experience with this, and whether this arrangement could potentially get us into trouble down the road. I know there are liability ramifications with the way the properties are titled, but in this case my question is really about the tax reporting between the two returns and not the division of liability. Thank you!

1Reply
38 views

Most Popular Reply

Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
Moderator
Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y

The LLC doesn't own those properties. The LLC/Partnership shouldn't be reporting anything related to them.

Lance is right with regard to the rental reporting being EXACTLY the same. 

The only reason people put rentals in LLC's is for asset protection. Tax impact doesn't change.

Currently you have none of the legal protection benefit, incorrect tax returns, and a CPA who in my opinion should be fired. 

See this reply in the discussion

28 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Lance LvovskyPro Member
    Accountant · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 753 votes
    7y
    @Margaret Feit The tax reporting has no effect since the income gets picked up either way and anything on the partnership return flows to your personal return. This doesn’t mean though that this is right. Hopefully your CPA wasn’t putting the properties on the balance sheet either...
  • Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    Yes, they are on the balance sheet. From an accounting perspective, everything is handled through the business. It is only the title of the property, mortgage and insurance that are in our name because that's what the bank required. But in Quickbooks and tax returns, everything is recorded as if it is owned and managed by the business.

  • Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    The LLC doesn't own those properties. The LLC/Partnership shouldn't be reporting anything related to them.

    Lance is right with regard to the rental reporting being EXACTLY the same. 

    The only reason people put rentals in LLC's is for asset protection. Tax impact doesn't change.

    Currently you have none of the legal protection benefit, incorrect tax returns, and a CPA who in my opinion should be fired. 

  • Attorney, CPA, Broker & Author · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 488 votes
    7y

    @Natalie Kolodij is correct when she says that the LLC doesn't own the properties, so it shouldn't be reporting them on its tax return.

    She is also correct when she says you have incorrect tax returns and a CPA who should probably be fired (that's my opinion as well.

    The one thing I would like to add is that you unfortunately have a major mess as well.

    As a general rule, separate properties should be accounted for separately.  People often look for what is easiest, but easiest isn't always the best way to do things, nor is it always the right way to do things.

    My advice is for you to look for another CPA ASAP and to try to find them, BEFORE year end, as they're about to get very busy come January.

  • Nicholas AiolaBusiness Member
    CPA & Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Margaret Feit I echo the sentiment of my peers (@Lance Lvovsky , @Natalie Kolodij , @Stanley Bronstein ) above. Although the tax reporting will ultimately be the same, the LLC doesn't own the properties and shouldn't be reporting as such.

    I have a client whose previous accountant did exactly that and I corrected it in the first year I took over the account. On top of that, it makes for a mess when actually correcting the reporting (meaning moving the properties from the partnership return to the individual return) if you're dealing with suspended passive loss carryovers; the suspended losses should be transferred separately, per property, not as one total.

    Using the example of my client, their previous accountant had no record of the breakdown of the suspended passive losses, just one big total. And, of course, a property was sold in the year I took over the account. So, I had to go back years and years to manually calculate the suspended losses for each property.

    Needless to say, the reporting should be corrected an care should be taken when doing so. Time to find a new CPA, and you have a good bunch to start with on this thread :)

    Aiola CPA, PLLC550 Reviews
  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    While I agree that the tax returns are incorrect, I don't necessarily agree that the CPA should be fired.

    If you notified them that the LLC did not own the properties, then I'd agree.

    But if you didn't tell them, then it's not like the CPA could or should go hunting for the title in public record to verify ownership before completing the return.  I certainly don't verify title before I prepare returns...

  • Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Linda Weygant:

    While I agree that the tax returns are incorrect, I don't necessarily agree that the CPA should be fired.

    If you notified them that the LLC did not own the properties, then I'd agree.

    But if you didn't tell them, then it's not like the CPA could or should go hunting for the title in public record to verify ownership before completing the return.  I certainly don't verify title before I prepare returns...

    The OP mentioned that the CPA said it was okay practice to do it this way- so I'm assuming they're in the know. 

    Excellent point to confirm though. I don't ask for titles necessarily either unless the client is not sure. 

    I think at this point (after consulting with an attorney) moving the properties to the LLC and continuing 1065 reporting may be the best action- hard to know without seeing all the details.

  • Nicholas AiolaBusiness Member
    CPA & Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Linda Weygant Certainly, but I would argue that a competent CPA (if not told initially) would ask the client whether the properties were owned individually or by an entity as part of the CPA's due diligence. I make sure to ask all new clients about entities owned, details about their entities, and assets owned by the entities.

    Aiola CPA, PLLC550 Reviews
  • Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nicholas Aiola:

    @Linda Weygant Certainly, but I would argue that a competent CPA (if not told initially) would ask the client whether the properties were owned individually or by an entity as part of the CPA's due diligence. I make sure to ask all new clients about entities owned, details about their entities, and assets owned by the entities.

    Ya but we've all had a client who tells you the whole time they have everything in a partnership - then they send over docs and there lies an 1120S return lol 

  • Nicholas AiolaBusiness Member
    CPA & Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Natalie Kolodij:
    Originally posted by @Nicholas Aiola:

    @Linda Weygant Certainly, but I would argue that a competent CPA (if not told initially) would ask the client whether the properties were owned individually or by an entity as part of the CPA's due diligence. I make sure to ask all new clients about entities owned, details about their entities, and assets owned by the entities.

    Ya but we've all had a client who tells you the whole time they have everything in a partnership - then they send over docs and there lies an 1120S return lol 

     Too, too true

    Aiola CPA, PLLC550 Reviews
  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Nicholas Aiola -

    @Natalie Kolodij pointed out that the CPA "blessed" this reporting.  I missed that in my initial reading.

    Are you saying that if a client gets you financial statements or a QuickBooks file for XYZ LLC, that you go through it and quiz them on each property and you ask if the LLC owns all properties presented in the financial statements?

    is that a conversation you have over the phone or is it part of your questionnaire?

    It never occurred to me to ask this question and I go pretty in-depth with my clients...  I'm no slouch when it comes to due diligence, but this is a new one for me.

    Do you go down to the component level?  Like ask which entity bought the new refrigerator?

    What about for other types of businesses?  Do you get into the individual computers and such?

  • Attorney, CPA, Broker & Author · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 488 votes
    7y

    @Linda Weygant While I understand where you're coming from about not expecting the CPA to research the title, one of the very first things I do is assemble a historical document package on all my new clients when they bring properties to me.

    I've seen many other CPAs do that as well.  While it might not technically be their job to do it, I certainly appreciate the ones who do.

  • Attorney, CPA, Broker & Author · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 488 votes
    7y

    @Natalie Kolodij I agree.  For example, I had a client who is doing a bunch of title transfers for estate planning purposes.  I suggested they have the out of state estate planning attorney send me the deeds, just so I could review them as a courtesy, PRIOR to doing the title transfers.

    They sent them over and everyone involved (including the estate planning attorney) was glad they did.

  • Nicholas AiolaBusiness Member
    CPA & Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Linda Weygant My initial questionnaire includes a section for the perspective client to list all entities owned and the assets (let's stick with properties) owned by the various entities. If unclear, I'll clarify via email - I try to keep as much in writing as possible.

    As @Natalie Kolodij mentioned, and as I've also experienced, sometimes the client themselves doesn't even know who or what technically owns the property;  asking the question may lead to finding an error like the one mentioned above.

    I've had a few clients who started out with a property or two in their name, kept their books in QBO, and purchased their next property with a partner through an LLC but kept using the same set of books. So, I try to drill down as much as possible in terms of ownership. I don't go as far as components, though ;)

    Maybe it's excessive to some but, if nothing else, it provides me with a level of comfort!

    Aiola CPA, PLLC550 Reviews
  • Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    The CPA did know how the properties were titled. In his defense, I will say that I think I had started it that way a year or two before, and then when I asked him about it, he said it probably didn't matter to continue it that way, since it didn't make any difference on the amount of taxes we owed. It wasn't his idea in the first place, though.

    All that said, now that this is my setup, I'm trying to figure out how to move forward. Changing the properties into the name of the business isn't really an option, because quite a few of them have mortgages on them, and my experience so far with quit-claiming is that it just makes everything complicated with insurance, with potentially wanting to refinance or 1031 down the road, and besides that the local small bank that has several of my mortgages has no interest in accommodating this arrangement. 

    I know there is a lot of debate about liability with LLC structuring vs. insurance, and I know the different sides of that argument. At this point most of my properties are titled in my name and mortgaged, so in all honesty I don't see a reasonable and cost-effective way to separate the liabilities with different LLCs. So I recognize that at this point the liability protection of my LLC is essentially shot, and I have a good personal umbrella policy instead.

    So at this point, what purpose does my LLC even serve? Maybe nothing, except that it gives me a way within my own accounting to separate my real estate from my other business and personal accounting, and it gives me professional credibility as a business owner, with a bank account, credit card, tax ID#, etc to have my real estate set up as a business.

    One option I've considered is somehow removing myself from the partnership and letting my husband continue the LLC taxed as a sole proprietorship, so then it all flows to our personal tax return anyway. But I'm assuming that process is much more complex than just declaring that it's no longer a partnership!

    I'm under contract right now to purchase another property (in my name with a mortgage) in a few weeks. And I'm planning in 2019 to sell another property and do a 1031 with it. I want to figure out a plan for myself before I move forward on either of these new items, but feeling a little lost in how to move forward!

  • Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Nicholas Aiola What did you recommend for your clients in the situation in your last paragraph? Go back and redo their books and separate it all out? Is there a way to separate it moving forward without re-filing old tax returns or re-entering several years worth of transactions in QB?

  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nicholas Aiola:

    @Linda Weygant My initial questionnaire includes a section for the perspective client to list all entities owned and the assets (let's stick with properties) owned by the various entities. If unclear, I'll clarify via email - I try to keep as much in writing as possible.

    As @Natalie Kolodij mentioned, and as I've also experienced, sometimes the client themselves doesn't even know who or what technically owns the property;  asking the question may lead to finding an error like the one mentioned above.

    I've had a few clients who started out with a property or two in their name, kept their books in QBO, and purchased their next property with a partner through an LLC but kept using the same set of books. So, I try to drill down as much as possible in terms of ownership. I don't go as far as components, though ;)

    Maybe it's excessive to some but, if nothing else, it provides me with a level of comfort!

    Thanks, Nicholas.  Food for thought for my own processes/procedures.  I also ask about entities, but never thought to question the individual properties in each entity.  Whatever the client presents as true for that entity, I have always accepted.  So a set of books with several properties.... I've never questioned that, if that is what the client presents.

  • Nicholas AiolaBusiness Member
    CPA & Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Margaret Feit In that situation, I recommended a separate set of books entirely for the partnership and used journal entries to transfer activity between books. Commingling funds/books can only cause issues, and it makes for messy accounting. I wouldn't recommend amending prior tax returns, namely because the tax implications will be unchanged. Focus on the present an the future in terms of your books and make sure to keep good, clean records going forward.

    @Linda Weygant Anytime :) it's probably overkill in most cases but seeing the mistake happen just one time at the hands of another CPA was enough to make me ask the question lol. Happy to compare questionnaires, if you'd like - I have no doubt I can learn a thing or two from yours.

    Aiola CPA, PLLC550 Reviews
  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    @Margaret Feit, You're hearing from the finest minds out there! I'm just puzzled by your statement that some of the properties are in an "LLC partnership". But you also mentioned that it is a pass through entity.

    Here's why the confusion bothers me. From the 1031 perspective the tax payer has to match. An LLC that is taxed as a partnership files a return and it truly would be the taxpayer for a property that is sold and all the activity of the property owned by the LLC is reported on the return of the LLC and then flows to you via the K-1. So if you also have property you own being accounted for by the LLC it's an unholy mess as you heard @Nicholas Aiola, @Stanley Bronstein, @Natalie Kolodij, @Lance Lvovsky, and @Linda Weygant saying (gosh it's so much fun to see the pros go at it!!!)  

    You're also giving undue depreciation allowance to the other members of the LLC as an aside if there are any. But most importantly it will affect your flexibility for 1031ing as that LLC is a tax payer and if one of the properties owned by the LLC is sold then the LLC has to buy the new property. But if you sell and 1031 one of the properties that the LLC is reporting then you're the tax payer but the LLC has been reporting it and once again all the accounting goes wackadoodle (industry term).

    But if the LLC is a disregarded entity (sometimes the common but not totally accurate phrase used is pass through) then it does not file it's own tax return and all should be reported on your Schedule E. You and the LLC are the same taxpayer. the standard for separating out things tween the LLC and you is a little looser. And you can sell as yourself and buy as the LLC in the 1031. Or sell as the LLC and buy as yourself if that's a lending requirement.

    The 1031 Investor5137 Reviews
  • Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Dave Foster, Yes, the 1031 issue is what brought me into realizing this may turn into a problem! The business is an LLC taxed as a partnership. The partners are my husband and myself, and we file a joint return for our 1040. So on the 1065 everything gets divided into K1s for my husband and myself, which are then both reported on the same 1040. In the end it doesn't change the amount of tax due or who owes it, because it all ultimately gets paid through our joint 1040.

    But yes, from a 1031 standpoint, we could run into an issue if the property is owned by the partnership and we want to buy something new with a mortgage, which would be our likely scenario. It's making me wonder if maybe we should just figure out how to change the MMLLC to a SMLLC somehow, if that's even possible, so that we're not messing with the complications of two different tax returns. Not that that's necessarily an easy process, but would that essentially solve my problem?

  • Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Margaret Feit 

    The issue is that the properties still aren't in the LLC- single or multi.

    So if you made it a SMLLC it would report EXACTLY how it would if the LLC didn't exist...which....again the LLC isn't doing any thing. doens't own any thing. It shouldn't exist if it's not holding the properties. Period.

    So options to solve this are....move the properties into the LLC. You can actually keep it as multi, or potentially have it be single since you're a husband/wife partnership. This depends on state.

    Or-it needs to be reported correctly directly on your 1040. 

    The LLC is literally not doing any thing for you. Your accounting would be the same, reporting would be the same, tax would be the same.

    You've just been paying someone to file a 2nd return for no reasons for years, and he's been doing it incorrectly. He should have walked through the options for correcting it year one instead of carrying it on incorrectly. 

    If you moved the rentals into the LLC via QC you do risk the potential of a bank calling the loan, or you could refinance in the LLC with commercial lending.

    As as Dave mentioned the 1031 isn't an issue as long as the same 2 partners who sell the existing properties are who own the new ones. 

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    @Margaret Feit, I like @Natalie Kolodij's suggestions but you may have a potential issue if you take the first option of moving all properties into the LLC but leave the LLC being taxed as a partnership. The issue will be that as soon as you want to sell one of those properties now you have a regarded LLC taxpayer so you would have to sell as the LLC and buy as the LLC - no other option. And I think somewhere above you mentioned having to take title as yourself for the right financing. You won't have that option if you put all properties into an LLC that files it's own tax return.

    So at the risk of opening the pandora's box of liability protection, what you might think about doing is to eliminate all properties but one from that LLC. Change the filing of the LLC to sole proprietor. And place all the rest of your properties into individual LLCs all taxed as sole proprietor. Now you have what some would say is a barrier of the LLCs between all your properties. But you also have now changed the tax payer for all to be yourself and your husband. So you have the option of getting rid of the LLC if you have to in a financing situation.

    No more second tax return.  No more 1031 issues.  Maybe better liability protection.

    The 1031 Investor5137 Reviews
  • Michael PlaksPro Member
    Tax Accountant / Enrolled Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    Stumbled upon this old thread and want to stir the pot a little. 

    Let's distill just one issue that was part of the discussion: can a multi-member LLC report a rental property on its partnership tax return if the title has not been transferred to the partnership? 

    Before clarifying my question, here're the issues that I'm intentionally ignoring:

    • all legal issues, including asset protection, validity of lease and inheritance
    • all mortgage issues, including due on sale and title insurance
    • all insurance issues
    • passive activity loss implications (good point though, Nick)
    • 1031 implications (be quiet, @Dave Foster  :)  )
    • whether the partners are a married couple or unrelated
    • whether they have other properties remaining outside of the LLC
    • bookkeeping details

    So all of those complications aside, let's take an example. Bill and Susan bought a rental house under their own names and split everything 50/50. Let's say no mortgage, to make the issue as unobstructed as possible.

    For whatever reason, which is not the point of my question, Bill and Susan form an LLC and start running all their rental operation thru it. The rent is deposited into the LLC account, all expenses are paid of the LLC account etc. So the LLC acts AS IF it owned the property, except it does not on the title. (To soften the protests of the purists, we can even document the assignment of the ownership rights and responsibilities to the LLC via an LLC resolution.)

    So why would NOT the LLC report this property on the partnership return now? Would not it be even proper to do so? And what are the dire consequences of doing so, besides PAL and 1031?

    Frankly, I'm surprised by the collective quest to crucify that CPA. What say ya, @Nicholas Aiola, @Natalie Kolodij, @Steven Hamilton II, @Linda Weygant, @Lance Lvovsky, @Stanley Bronstein?

  • Nicholas AiolaBusiness Member
    CPA & Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Michael Plaks With the understanding that we are ignoring the laundry list you provided, I would suggest treating Bill and Susan's LLC as a PM company based on that info. We have various clients who utilize this structure currently. Obviously, we do not want to create SE income without reason but isn't that more in line with the relationship you're describing?

    A property manager collects rents and pays expenses, but the owner is the one who reports the rental activity on his/her tax return. The LLC has no claim to the title of the property but seems to be managing it.

    If the LLC reports the property anyway, no harm no foul (purely from a tax standpoint) since all activity will pass through to Bill and Susan anyway but I'd lean towards this being a landlord (Bill and Susan) / PM (Bill and Susan's LLC) relationship.

    Thoughts?

    Aiola CPA, PLLC550 Reviews
  • Michael PlaksPro Member
    Tax Accountant / Enrolled Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    @Nicholas Aiola

    In the OP case, they already had an LLC operating as landlord. They included extra properties that the LLC did not legally own, but could have owned if only they transferred the title. Except the legal ownership, the LLC acted as an owner.

    And everyone asked for the CPA's head. I still do not understand why.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.