Bernie Sanders - Not Good for Flippers - Increase Taxes

Bernie Sanders - Not Good for Flippers - Increase Taxes

Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes

https://papersourceonline.com/sanders-goes-after/ link

Bernie Sanders Goes After Real Estate Investors

By W. J. Mencarow

Sen. Bernie Sanders wants a 25% “house flipping” tax levied against investors who sell a property at a profit within five years of purchase.

He also wants a 2 percent “empty homes tax” on the property value of vacant homes in order to discourage real estate investment.

From Bernie's Website

"When Bernie is president, he will:

  • Create an office within the Department of Housing and Urban Development to coordinate and work with states and municipalities to strengthen rent control and tenant protections, implement fair and inclusive zoning ordinances, streamline review processes and direct funding where these changes are made.
    • This office will convene key leaders, academics, experts, local officials, renters, tenants, and homeowners to create and implement these necessary solutions.
  • Preempt laws that prevent inclusionary zoning for luxury developments.
  • End exclusionary and restrictive zoning ordinances and replace them with zoning that encourages racial, economic, and disability integration that makes housing more affordable.
    • Require that recipients of federal funding from the Department of Transportation and the Department of Housing and Urban Development make these important zoning reforms.
    • Provide funding to states that preempt local exclusionary zoning ordinances to make housing more equitable, accessible and affordable for all.
  • Make federal funding contingent on creating livable communities.
    • Encourage zoning and development that promotes integration and access to public transportation to reduce commuting time, congestion and long car commutes.
    • Prioritize projects that reduce greenhouse gas emissions, create walkable and livable communities, and reduce urban sprawl.
  • Encourage zoning and development designed to expand and maximize the number of units fully accessible to people with disabilities.
  • Place a 25 percent House Flipping tax on speculators who sell a non-owner-occupied property, if sold for more than it was purchased within 5 years of purchase.
  • Impose a 2 percent Empty Homes tax on the property value of vacant, owned homes to bring more units into the market and curb the use of housing as speculative investment.
  • Encourage “circuit breakers” on property taxes to protect homeowners in gentrifying neighborhoods from being priced out of their own homes as their property values rise.

READ MORE: https://berniesanders.com/issues/housing-all/

From my point of view, anything that impedes or obstructs REI's cash flow is a bad thing.

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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y

Moderators Note: Please keep the discussion focused on policy and how it will affect investors. Any political discussion will be removed. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · brentwood, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 730 votes
    6y

    This should generate an interesting discussion.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Well simply addressing your comment flipping is not about cash flow, and you already pay a 25% tax when you flip its called a capital gains tax 

  • Rental Property Investor · Clearwater & Daytona Beach, FL · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 197 votes
    6y

    When everything is free, someone has to pay...

  • Investor · brentwood, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 730 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    Well simply addressing your comment flipping is not about cash flow, and you already pay a 25% tax when you flip its called a capital gains tax 

    Presumably the Bernie tax would be a tax in addition to what you pay otherwise, which btw would be at ordinary rates not capital gain rates.

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 50 posts · 43 votes
    6y

    What I find most bizarre about this is that for almost everything else on the list, the campaign explains its reasoning (e.g. "Encourage “circuit breakers” on property taxes to protect homeowners in gentrifying neighborhoods" OR "Impose a 2 percent Empty Homes tax on the property value of vacant, owned homes to bring more units into the market and curb the use of housing as speculative investment") but for the House Flipping tax they don't. I'm not sure what problem they think it solves to tax people for taking a risk to improve a property. Does anyone have any insight on the thinking here? What is the social utility of discouraging flipping?

    I guess I can see the whole "discouraging speculation" angle, but the entire stock market is essentially speculative--do they also propose a 25% tax on other capital gains on property held for less than five years?

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    Moderators Note: Please keep the discussion focused on policy and how it will affect investors. Any political discussion will be removed. 

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2018 · 50 posts · 43 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    Moderators Note: Please keep the discussion focused on policy and how it will affect investors. Any political discussion will be removed. 

    I respect the intention here, but am a little confused about its application. Any discussion of policy is inherently political discussion. There isn't a way to unwind the two. I understand removing posts that are completely unrelated to real estate investing at all, or unrelated to the specific policy that is the topic of this thread, but where else can a hard line be drawn?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Spanish Fort, Ala · Member since 2019 · 97 posts · 88 votes
    6y

    Higher taxes, rent control new regulations, open border, increase in renter rights, lawsuits, property values down, increase inspections, loss of property rights, social  ownership, a nightmare.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nathan M.:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    Moderators Note: Please keep the discussion focused on policy and how it will affect investors. Any political discussion will be removed. 

    I respect the intention here, but am a little confused about its application. Any discussion of policy is inherently political discussion. There isn't a way to unwind the two. I understand removing posts that are completely unrelated to real estate investing at all, or unrelated to the specific policy that is the topic of this thread, but where else can a hard line be drawn?

     You seem to understand what I meant. Discuss the issue and avoid political grand standing or trolling. The goal here is to keep discussion civil, productive and real estate related. I appreciate your understanding.

  • Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    Well simply addressing your comment flipping is not about cash flow, and you already pay a 25% tax when you flip its called a capital gains tax 

     Great point. So is this 25% on top of capital gains?

  • Investor · brentwood, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 730 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nicole Heasley Beitenman:
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    Well simply addressing your comment flipping is not about cash flow, and you already pay a 25% tax when you flip its called a capital gains tax 

     Great point. So is this 25% on top of capital gains?

    True flipping is a business activity so it's not taxed at capital gain rates, but at ordinary rates. I think we should assume that the proposed new tax will be in some fashion an addition to the existing tax already imposed (i.e., the one posed at ordinary rates, not capital gain rates).

  • Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Christopher Smith:
    Originally posted by @Nicole Heasley Beitenman:
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    Well simply addressing your comment flipping is not about cash flow, and you already pay a 25% tax when you flip its called a capital gains tax 

     Great point. So is this 25% on top of capital gains?

    True flipping is a business activity so it's not taxed at capital gain rates, but at ordinary rates. I think we should assume that the proposed new tax will be in some fashion an addition to the existing tax already imposed (i.e., the one posed at ordinary rates, not capital gain rates).

    Thank you!

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    Well simply addressing your comment flipping is not about cash flow, and you already pay a 25% tax when you flip its called a capital gains tax 

     Hi Mary,

    An example of an investment property sale

    let’s say that you own an investment property that you purchased for $200,000, inclusive of acquisition costs. After holding the property for five years, you’ve claimed $36,365 in depreciation. After five years, you sell the property for net proceeds of $250,000. This gives you a capital gain of $50,000 on the sale, which will be taxed at your appropriate long-term capital gains rate. You’ll also owe depreciation recapture on $36,365, which will be taxed at your ordinary income rate.

    I believe Bernie wants 25% not including the regular taxation issues of investment property.

  • Accountant · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Brian Gibbons

    "You’ll also owe depreciation recapture on $36,365, which will be taxed at your ordinary income rate."

    1250 gain is not taxed at ordinary income brackets.  Rather, it is a type of capital gain taxed at a maximum federal rate of 25% (28.8% if we wrap in NIIT).

    It's not possible to know exactly what Bernie Sander's plan calls for, as it is currently a mere talking point and not proposed legislation, however it would be safe to assume he has a "surtax" in mind.  That is, this tax would be "in addition to" current tax rates.

  • Member since 2020 · 53 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    What's interesting about this is the use of the word speculators, because if there's a quantifiable increase in value based on changes made to a property based on mathematics and past personal experience, is it really still speculation? I wonder if there may be some loophole that'll allow a person to prove that as an experienced flipper who did the math that it wasn't speculation.

    Also an increase in rent control kinda stinks but I understand the sentiment behind wanting to control how much people pay for housing. Personally if this does happen I would like to see this paired with legislation that no longer requires a home address to become a W2 employee, which I imagine would help with some of the homeless problems many parts of the country are facing.

    While I think that this stuff may help increase the quality of life of those at the bottom, I do worry that this will all make profiting off of REI much more difficult.

  • Investor · brentwood, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 730 votes
    6y

    Looks like the Bernie tax just became a little less likely after Super Tuesday. 

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