Milo, a US-based lender is now offering bitcoin-backed mortgages with no downpayment, no credit requirement, no DTI, no bank statements, and 100% financing. This is the start of exciting disruption and innovation as the digital assets space matures and further melds with traditional and antiquated finance.
Stack sats, use them to fund real estate without sacrificing the appreciation, invest the gains from real estate to stack more sats, repeat.
Bitcoin is the most pristine collateral asset that exists today.
I still think Bitcoin has as much value as Dutch tulip bulbs. But hey, maybe this time really is is different.
It will be interesting to watch how the crypto market does during the coming recession.
Milo, a US-based lender is now offering bitcoin-backed mortgages with no downpayment, no credit requirement, no DTI, no bank statements, and 100% financing.
"My understanding is you provide the total cost of the home in bitcoin and Milo would supply the USD to purchase it. They would obtain custody of your bitcoin while you pay down your loan to them over time."
In other words, you are paying 100% cash for the business. This is not a "mortgage"
Try this: They offer a mortgage. You just let them hold 100% of the value in the cash in your bank account. Same diff...
@Mike Hern
Because he didn’t write down his key phrase. If he did, he could access his BTC from any device. But he did not. Now that you know this, you can check it off your list of your fears of Bitcoin. Most of the items you listed above were based on losing a computer. These are not things you need to fear.
@Anish Tolia
It’s already happening. Adoption is skyrocketing.
To shut down BTC, the government would have to shut down the internet. They have no choice but to join ‘em. The US treasury department is looking at creating their own digital currency coin. With more and more large corporations, hedge funds, and banks holding BTC in their portfolios, attempting to ban the asset is not feasible. It’s changing the global financial system. Some see it, some don’t. It’s happening either way.
@Joe Villeneuve
Joe, with all due respect, he’s not making your case for you. Rob’s not claiming it’s a get rich quick scheme. He knows his stuff, is articulating things well, and is pretty brave to continue the conversation in a forum with people who are basically laughing him off.
Take note, he’s right. You’ll see it one day. It took me years to wrap my head around Bitcoin and how it’s changing the world.
@Joe Villeneuve
That’s a quote from bitcoin’s creator when explaining the concept in the early days. Not a dig at you. Some people don’t want to understand. We don’t always have the time to keep trying to convince every naysayer.
@Brian Plajer
You don’t have to buy an entire Bitcoin. You can by $.01 worth. You can buy $5 worth. You can buy $1M worth. It’s a common mistake made when people are first learning about BTC.
@Nick Barlow
There will never be more than 21 million bitcoin mined. Ever.
No other alt coin can claim that. There are is Bitcoin and then there are all the other crypto coins. They are NOT the same. Other coins are created by a company, by investors, by programmers, to let people buy into whatever they’re creating. The creators can decide to create another 100 million coins. They can decide to keep 90% for themselves. The CEO can be hauled in front of congress to answer question.
Bitcoin can never have more than 21M coins. (Not enough for every millionaire on the planet to own a whole coin).
Don’t lump bitcoin and “crypto” all together. One is an immutable store of value, the others are basically stocks. Very important point.
@Mike Hern
Because he didn’t write down his private keys. Every wallet has a 12 word phrase that gives you access to your coins. If you don’t write it down or store it somewhere and you lose your only copy (on that one pc) you’re SOL.
It’s one of the amazing features of BTC. A Ukrainian refugee can walk across the border with their phrase in their head, get a new hardware wallet, and access their money. Some fear a drug dealer can do the same thing. The technology is neutral.
@Anish Tolia
It’s already happening. Adoption is skyrocketing.
To shut down BTC, the government would have to shut down the internet. They have no choice but to join ‘em. The US treasury department is looking at creating their own digital currency coin. With more and more large corporations, hedge funds, and banks holding BTC in their portfolios, attempting to ban the asset is not feasible. It’s changing the global financial system. Some see it, some don’t. It’s happening either way.
@Lesley Resnick A lot to unpack here.
1. If you borrowed 2 bitcoin using $100k of borrowed money and it doubled in price, you would have $400k in bitcoin and owe $100k + interest. This would be leveraging a weak asset (USD) into a strong one (BTC) which is exactly what every prudent investor should be thinking about. Bitcoin and other assets will go up FOREVER denominated in dollars because the money supply has no limit. Try charting the stock, housing, or commodities market in bitcoin or gold and see what you get. It's quite the inverse of what most people see in dollar terms.
Hate to break it to you, but the reason your house, sports cards, used car, gas, etc. went up 40% last year isn't that they got 40% better, USD got 40% worse. Looking at purchasing power rather than price when compared to the dollar is a more accurate indicator.
2. What defines a fiat currency is the way it's governed. It's the principles of bitcoin which make it valuable, not the numbers, or even the price. The real value of bitcoin goes far beyond making a bunch of 1st world people rich. I've touched on this a bit in previous posts in this thread if you'd like to review it but I'd recommend diving deeper here. This is really the meat and potatoes of the Bitcoin thesis.
3. The concept that bitcoin can be hacked is a common misconception that keeps coming up. THE BITCOIN NETWORK HAS NEVER BEEN HACKED. Every clickbait media article claiming it has is referring to user error, not issues with the system. How many times has Visa's, Mastercard's, Venmo's, and world govt's centralized servers been hacked? Bitcoin and public blockchains are secure because the goal isn't to keep the information safe, it's to keep it true. Information is shared and spread so thin across so many different parties, there's no consolidated attack vector.
Please see my post from yesterday about bitcoin's security, but it ultimately comes down to responsibility. If you don't trust yourself pay a professional custodian and trust them.
4. DING! Going to call a fact check on this one. The biggest winners in digital currency are not criminals. There's actually a lot of evidence showing an extremely low percentage of transactions on the bitcoin blockchain (0.15%) are related to illicit activities. Bitcoin like most public blockchains is fully transparent meaning anyone can see every transaction all the way back from the genesis block in 2009. Criminals are smarter than you think.
5. Bitcoin is immutable and uncensorable. Bitcoin has and needs no kings, leaders, or governments to operate, just the internet, electricity and a collective group of actors participating in the incentive structure. Governments cannot "take over" bitcoin. They can make it difficult to engage with but cannot shut it down. Many have been trying over the past several years and they will continue to do so at least for the moderate future.
Governments will surely make their own digital dollar but this comes back to the underlying principles of money. A dollar in digital form is still a dollar losing its value to inflation over time. A central bank digital currency (CBDC) also opens the door for serious privacy concerns for citizens. Everyone (including governments) is better off with a decentralized form of value that is immune to corruption, coercion, and manipulation.
6. The people who have confidence in bitcoin (most of them anyway) are those who have done the work and spent the time understanding it and its relation to the existing financial ecosystem. I don't think I've met anyone who is anti-bitcoin after spending at least 40 hours really diving down the rabbit hole.
You're well on your way!
@Nick Barlow Bitcoin is the first form of digital scarcity, and possibly the only form of absolute scarcity the world has ever seen. It's provable through open-source code allowing anyone in the world to verify the supply and issuance schedule of the asset. Major governments adopting bitcoin as a currency is doubtful but they may use it as a payment rail or possibly a reserve asset in some capacity.
For daily transactions, fiat is better. Spend/borrow in the weak asset and save/grow in the strong one.
Gold's over-the-ground supply increases at ~2% annually through gold mining. If the price of gold were to double the rate of extraction would increase due to this incentive. Bitcoin is the first asset with a truly inelastic supply dynamic, meaning no matter how much demand increases or decreases supply does not change.
The question then becomes, will bitcoin see more or less adoption over the next 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 years? Hint: Every single day bitcoin exists, a little more trust is built.
I agree with @Dave Carter in that Bitcoin differs from the rest of the cryptoverse. Bitcoin is a long-term savings asset stored on the internet while the others are ventures introducing new business and social models. They share many characteristics and today trade with high price correlation but serve different purposes for different means. We'll likely see consolidation as the "winners" find product-market fit and a handful of public chains dominate the majority of transactions. We're in the late 90s of the internet boom with a lot of innovation, experimentation, and of course risk.
There are different ways to play the game and it depends on your goals. The investment thesis for gold, real estate, or even the S&P 500 is not the same as the investment thesis in early-stage equity.
Milo, a US-based lender is now offering bitcoin-backed mortgages with no downpayment, no credit requirement, no DTI, no bank statements, and 100% financing.
"My understanding is you provide the total cost of the home in bitcoin and Milo would supply the USD to purchase it. They would obtain custody of your bitcoin while you pay down your loan to them over time."
In other words, you are paying 100% cash for the business. This is not a "mortgage"
Try this: They offer a mortgage. You just let them hold 100% of the value in the cash in your bank account. Same diff...
@Ken Latchers Well, in option one your collateral is losing 10-20% every year while with option two it is growing at over 100%. After 30 years, if you went with option one you have a house and a cash position that has lost somewhere between 50-90% of its value. With option two you have a house and a bitcoin position that has grown exponentially providing you the ability to get the house (and much, much more).
If you and your future generations were put in a vacuum-sealed room and were told the oxygen was being leeched out at 10-20% a year, would you risk finding another room or would you stay there hoping things work out? How long would you wait?
The lending product is of course for those who believe in bitcoin. If you're not there yet, just buy the house with cash.
I've looked into this. I've seen you can only colleteralize about 50% of your BTC savings & if BTC drops in price, the company will mandate that you put in more money to keep it above 50 LTV of your BTC. I do like the idea of collateralizing your crypto assets
Bitcoin nearly has a $1T market cap. This is now a solid asset. Exxon Global has been mining bitcoin since January 2021. Ray Dalio and Bridgewater are now allocating to bitcoin. Tesla holds it on its balance sheet. El Salvador has made it legal tender and you can use bitcoin to buy a latte at Starbucks and a filet-o-fish at McDonalds. This means that Starbucks and McDonalds has bitcoin on their ledger somewhere and are having to update their financial infrastructure for this new form of currency. Russia has stated that they will accept bitcoin for oil and natural gas so this means that Russia will be holding bitcoin on its balance sheet. This is just a tiny fraction of the examples of adoption that is happening every day.
Besides being the most pristine collateral on the planet, bitcoin miners stabilize the power grid and makes use of what would otherwise be wasted energy. Natural gas companies are mining bitcoin with flare gas that they would otherwise burn into the atmosphere.
Again, this is a $1 TRILLION DOLLAR asset that has survived non-stop bashing from ignorant individuals, the media, local and global governments, etc. since its inception and has only come out stronger with each attack. We are going on 14 years now. If bitcoin was going to die, it would already have done so and lord knows how they have tried to kill it.
When a country's central bank can arbitrarily freeze withdrawals of its own citizen's money without warning or permission, it is clear that we need better than a bunch of stodgy old men in a boardroom dictating global monetary policy on everyone's behalf.
When the United States can print a large majority of its money supply in a couple years to manipulate the markets, it is clear we need better than the current offering.
I shouldn't have to wait 24 hours to send money internationally nor should I even have to rely on a central body to keep account of my transactions when there is now a new system that removes this intermediary so that we can get back to a peer-to-peer transaction system.
Just imagine when fixed income asset managers are finally forced to admit that money markets and bonds are trash and they start allocating just a small fraction of their funds to bitcoin in order to preserve the wealth of the older generations funds that they are managing (TRILLIONS of dollars), the market cap of bitcoin is going to explode and average people are no longer going to be able to afford 1 bitcoin, let alone .1 of a bitcoin and once these asset managers see the success of these small allocations, the flood gates will open.
We are going to see many more bitcoin-backed mortgage programs pop up until they are the norm.
Screenshot this post and revisit it in three years.
You might be laughing now but you will cry later.
@Mike Hern
Because he didn’t write down his key phrase. If he did, he could access his BTC from any device. But he did not. Now that you know this, you can check it off your list of your fears of Bitcoin. Most of the items you listed above were based on losing a computer. These are not things you need to fear.
Got it.
So if someone stores their "key phrase" on their laptop and they lose their laptop they can never regain access to their Bitcoin. I'm sure that would never happen since people, especially Bitcoin investors, are such very clever people.
However, most people would do what is done with computer passwords and put it on a sticky note on their monitor. Ok, I understand that part.
Now, how many failed attempts before someone is locked out of their wallet? The article says "After 10 failed attempts, the password will encrypt itself, making the wallet impossible to access."
I suspect most people would chose to use easy to remember phrases. If you are not using it everyday is it still so "easy to remember" though? I guess one solution is to use a favorite quote or phrase from page 46 paragraph two of your favorite book. (Most people won't do that of course.)
So, when I go to the grocery store (in the future), at check out do I swipe a card and then type in my "key phrase"?
How do I protect my "key phrase" from being recorded by all of the cameras in the average store?
"Bitcoin nearly has a $1T market cap. This is now a...
.
The ruble was founded on far more than Bitcoin, and look what happened to it the last 6 weeks
Bitcoin is worth absolutely nothing and is founded upon absolutely nothing. It has zero value and is highly erratic.
It only takes a Black Swan event to turn your holdings into vapor. During the Depression only Gold T bonds and real estate held their value. A lot of companies which were worth far more than Bitcoin disappeared from the Earth.
Milo, a US-based lender is now offering bitcoin-backed mortgages with no downpayment, no credit requirement, no DTI, no bank statements, and 100% financing.
"My understanding is you provide the total cost of the home in bitcoin and Milo would supply the USD to purchase it. They would obtain custody of your bitcoin while you pay down your loan to them over time."
In other words, you are paying 100% cash for the business. This is not a "mortgage"
Try this: They offer a mortgage. You just let them hold 100% of the value in the cash in your bank account. Same diff...
@Ken Latchers Well, in option one your collateral is losing 10-20% every year while with option two it is growing at over 100%. After 30 years, if you went with option one you have a house and a cash position that has lost somewhere between 50-90% of its value. With option two you have a house and a bitcoin position that has grown exponentially providing you the ability to get the house (and much, much more).
If you and your future generations were put in a vacuum-sealed room and were told the oxygen was being leeched out at 10-20% a year, would you risk finding another room or would you stay there hoping things work out? How long would you wait?
The lending product is of course for those who believe in bitcoin. If you're not there yet, just buy the house with cash.
"Bitcoin nearly has a $1T market cap. This is now a...
.
Bitcoin is worth absolutely nothing and is founded upon absolutely nothing. It has zero value and is highly erratic.
This is funny. Bitcoin has the 9th largest market cap of any asset just above Berkshire Hathaway and just behind Tesla.
I have a simple question for all those drunk on the BitCoin Kool-Aid:
What happens when the U.S. Government declares BitCoin is a currency of which is now going to be under the controls and measure of such as the USD is under control measures there-of?
AND, placed control of say the Federal Reserve?
Or better yet, when the U.S. Government declares they are opening use of the D.G.C. (Digital Gold Currency) as a currency for ALL to utilize as legal tender, under control and regulation of ___(pick your federal agency)___ ?
Because yes, the U.S. Government absolutely 100% can obliterate BitCoin in an instant, it absolutely can. BitCoin and crypto exist because the powers that be ALLOW it to exist. It's a narcissistic ignorance to state it is more powerful then the IMF, Federal Reserve and various entities from Jekyll Island.
In the simple swoop of the President pen it can be ended and eliminated as illegal currency, as some nations have. And powers that be in the U.S. have been in discussion of doing exactly that, taking control of the crypto currency world and YES they 100% can because they make the laws, what will it be worth when it is ILLEGAL tender?
BitCoin is backed by NOTHING, fact. It's value is based upon USE, that is it and that is all. If/WHEN use is made ILLEGAL, it's value goes to 0, fact. All the fancy charts in the world can not refute this fact. Nor can they refute that BitCoin has 0 control, because it has 0 control of it's value base which is USE, as the institution that be control the laws of use.
So for BitCoin to reign supreme, all you have to do is collapse and obliterate the control mechanisms of world politics and world finance, that's it. Lol. Good luck with that.
And for all who want to point to BitCoins's market cap as proof of it's validity and position in the world, look back a bit at what Tulips value once was. keyword ONCE and WAS.
All the digital fancy in the world will never change the simple fact that people eat, drink and require shelter. I think I will keep my $ there.
I have a simple question for all those drunk on the BitCoin Kool-Aid:
What happens when the U.S. Government declares BitCoin is a currency of which is now going to be under the controls and measure of such as the USD is under control measures there-of?
AND, placed control of say the Federal Reserve?
Or better yet, when the U.S. Government declares they are opening use of the D.G.C. (Digital Gold Currency) as a currency for ALL to utilize as legal tender, under control and regulation of ___(pick your federal agency)___ ?
Because yes, the U.S. Government absolutely 100% can obliterate BitCoin in an instant, it absolutely can. BitCoin and crypto exist because the powers that be ALLOW it to exist. It's a narcissistic ignorance to state it is more powerful then the IMF, Federal Reserve and various entities from Jekyll Island.
In the simple swoop of the President pen it can be ended and eliminated as illegal currency, as some nations have. And powers that be in the U.S. have been in discussion of doing exactly that, taking control of the crypto currency world and YES they 100% can because they make the laws, what will it be worth when it is ILLEGAL tender?
BitCoin is backed by NOTHING, fact. It's value is based upon USE, that is it and that is all. If/WHEN use is made ILLEGAL, it's value goes to 0, fact. All the fancy charts in the world can not refute this fact. Nor can they refute that BitCoin has 0 control, because it has 0 control of it's value base which is USE, as the institution that be control the laws of use.
So for BitCoin to reign supreme, all you have to do is collapse and obliterate the control mechanisms of world politics and world finance, that's it. Lol. Good luck with that.
Is it like when alcohol, drugs, and _(fill in the blank)_ were made illegal? Prohibition is a better form of marketing than behavior change.
As we're already seeing, most governments don't want to kill crypto just as they didn't kill the computer, mobile phone, or internet. Each of these shifts created extreme amounts of value that would have been overlooked had they denied the technology.
Digital assets are a thing (and will continue to be) regardless of whether some governments "allow" them or not. The only jurisdiction in cyberspace is code.
@Nick Barlow
Bitcoin can never have more than 21M coins.
Don’t lump bitcoin and “crypto” all together. One is an immutable store of value, the others are basically stocks. Very important point.
I have a simple question for all those drunk on the BitCoin Kool-Aid:
What happens when the U.S. Government declares BitCoin is a currency of which is now going to be under the controls and measure of such as the USD is under control measures there-of?
AND, placed control of say the Federal Reserve?
Or better yet, when the U.S. Government declares they are opening use of the D.G.C. (Digital Gold Currency) as a currency for ALL to utilize as legal tender, under control and regulation of ___(pick your federal agency)___ ?
Because yes, the U.S. Government absolutely 100% can obliterate BitCoin in an instant, it absolutely can. BitCoin and crypto exist because the powers that be ALLOW it to exist. It's a narcissistic ignorance to state it is more powerful then the IMF, Federal Reserve and various entities from Jekyll Island.
In the simple swoop of the President pen it can be ended and eliminated as illegal currency, as some nations have. And powers that be in the U.S. have been in discussion of doing exactly that, taking control of the crypto currency world and YES they 100% can because they make the laws, what will it be worth when it is ILLEGAL tender?
BitCoin is backed by NOTHING, fact. It's value is based upon USE, that is it and that is all. If/WHEN use is made ILLEGAL, it's value goes to 0, fact. All the fancy charts in the world can not refute this fact. Nor can they refute that BitCoin has 0 control, because it has 0 control of it's value base which is USE, as the institution that be control the laws of use.
So for BitCoin to reign supreme, all you have to do is collapse and obliterate the control mechanisms of world politics and world finance, that's it. Lol. Good luck with that.
Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer monetary transaction system without a central intermediary and with it's own built in currency and monetary policy that cannot be altered or manipulated at the whim of any central body.
You say bitcoin is backed by nothing. So what is the worth of PayPal, Venmo, Visa, Mastercard? They are backed by the value of the service they provide and nothing more, wouldn't you say? If the payment service they provide is rendered useless, the value of these companies will be useless.
China has already banned bitcoin but that hasn't stopped Chinese citizens from trading or storing it. India has banned bitcoin but that hasn't stopped Indians from trading or storing it. In fact, the newer generation of Indians ask for bitcoin instead of the family gold.
The value of the bitcoin payment rails network is the service it provides and each bitcoin represents the amount of resources it takes to validate a transaction without a central intermediary.
If we're going to make arguments about 1s and 0s then all software is worthless since all software is nothing more than 1s and 0s.
If you're going to argue about the volatility of the price of bitcoin, then you need only looks at the volatility of the monetary policy governing the USD. There is zero volatility in the monetary policy of bitcoin. The monetary policy of the USD changes daily it seems. Also, any new asset is going to go through a period of volatility and once it matures, the volatility falls off to a large extent. Bitcoin is still a teenager, wait until it's a young adult, and then a mature adult. You will see the price volatility disappear over time.
Regarding key phrase usage... this reveals the ignorance of how bitcoin is used. When you scan your starbucks app at Starbuck to pay for your latte you don't have to remember your password or punch in a password or the like. You scan the barcode. It's the same with bitcoin. You scan a QR code and boom, transaction done.
It really doesn't matter at the end of the day.
Watch and learn.
@Rob Kishi @Jason Kudo How exactly are you invested in crypto? What is the best way?
I have a simple question for all those drunk on the BitCoin Kool-Aid:
What happens when the U.S. Government declares BitCoin is a currency of which is now going to be under the controls and measure of such as the USD is under control measures there-of?
AND, placed control of say the Federal Reserve?
Or better yet, when the U.S. Government declares they are opening use of the D.G.C. (Digital Gold Currency) as a currency for ALL to utilize as legal tender, under control and regulation of ___(pick your federal agency)___ ?
Because yes, the U.S. Government absolutely 100% can obliterate BitCoin in an instant, it absolutely can. BitCoin and crypto exist because the powers that be ALLOW it to exist. It's a narcissistic ignorance to state it is more powerful then the IMF, Federal Reserve and various entities from Jekyll Island.
In the simple swoop of the President pen it can be ended and eliminated as illegal currency, as some nations have. And powers that be in the U.S. have been in discussion of doing exactly that, taking control of the crypto currency world and YES they 100% can because they make the laws, what will it be worth when it is ILLEGAL tender?
BitCoin is backed by NOTHING, fact. It's value is based upon USE, that is it and that is all. If/WHEN use is made ILLEGAL, it's value goes to 0, fact. All the fancy charts in the world can not refute this fact. Nor can they refute that BitCoin has 0 control, because it has 0 control of it's value base which is USE, as the institution that be control the laws of use.
So for BitCoin to reign supreme, all you have to do is collapse and obliterate the control mechanisms of world politics and world finance, that's it. Lol. Good luck with that.
Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer monetary transaction system without a central intermediary and with it's own built in currency and monetary policy that cannot be altered or manipulated at the whim of any central body.
You say bitcoin is backed by nothing. So what is the worth of PayPal, Venmo, Visa, Mastercard? They are backed by the value of the service they provide and nothing more, wouldn't you say? If the payment service they provide is rendered useless, the value of these companies will be useless.
China has already banned bitcoin but that hasn't stopped Chinese citizens from trading or storing it. India has banned bitcoin but that hasn't stopped Indians from trading or storing it. In fact, the newer generation of Indians ask for bitcoin instead of the family gold.
The value of the bitcoin payment rails network is the service it provides and each bitcoin represents the amount of resources it takes to validate a transaction without a central intermediary.
If we're going to make arguments about 1s and 0s then all software is worthless since all software is nothing more than 1s and 0s.
If you're going to argue about the volatility of the price of bitcoin, then you need only looks at the volatility of the monetary policy governing the USD. There is zero volatility in the monetary policy of bitcoin. The monetary policy of the USD changes daily it seems. Also, any new asset is going to go through a period of volatility and once it matures, the volatility falls off to a large extent. Bitcoin is still a teenager, wait until it's a young adult, and then a mature adult. You will see the price volatility disappear over time.
Regarding key phrase usage... this reveals the ignorance of how bitcoin is used. When you scan your starbucks app at Starbuck to pay for your latte you don't have to remember your password or punch in a password or the like. You scan the barcode. It's the same with bitcoin. You scan a QR code and boom, transaction done.
It really doesn't matter at the end of the day.
Watch and learn.