Urgent Property management and tenant issue - help appreciated

Urgent Property management and tenant issue - help appreciated

Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes

I have a property under management in Tenessee with Reedy and company where I have had the following issues. Who can I escalate to in company management to help with these? The person I have escalate to has not responded to even a single escalation email.

1. Several repairs have been asked for by the property management company in the past. When I persisted the last few times, they identified the tenant was at fault for the damages and said they will charge the tenant ledger. They still asked me to pay the amount upfront for the repairs to happen which I did in Dec 2021. In early Jan 2021 the property management company confirmed to me that the repairs were done. Today, after persisting for photos of the repaid, the PM says that repairs were not done and they gave me erroneous information.

2. While I noticed the issues with the tenant in the past, their lease was coming to an end in Dec 2021. I gave written direction to the PM to not renew the lease. However, this was ignored and the tenant lease was extended for 6 months.

3. I put the property under sale in Dec 2021 and three offers have fallen through. When I persisted with the PM to take detailed photos of the state of the property along with the rehab costs if any, they promised the same early this week but after repeated follow ups I am now being told that the tenant was not available at the time they went for the inspection and tenant is not giving access.

I don't live in Tennessee. I would like these issues to be immediately addressed. How do I solve this situation?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y
Well, your PM is an absolute waste. The law requires us to give notice of entry; it does not require tenant's permission. Your PM should notify them they WILL inspect at [TIME / DATE] and then show up with keys in hand and go in. If the tenant blocks them or becomes threatening, they should schedule it again for the following day and show up with the police and a locksmith.

Since the house is for sale, I would hire a REALTOR (pay them for their time) to schedule a showing, then walk through and take pictures documenting the condition. Have them specifically document whatever repairs were supposed to take place at the Tenant's expense. You'll need this later.

As for the PM, you should send them a written notice and mail it via Certified Mail with signature receipt. I would demand they communicate with you immediately or you will file an ethics complaint with the state board. If they don't respond, or don't respond to your satisfaction, then you should file a complaint. A phone call from the state board is often enough to motivate them to fix the situation before the state gets involved in an investigation. If that doesn't work, hire an attorney.

Sorry for your troubles, but the only way to fix this is to play hardball.
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  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 349 posts · 418 votes
    4y

    @Abdul Azeez To me this requires some face-to-face time with the PM and an in-person inspection of the property. Are you working with a local realtor on the sale? Maybe you could employ them to do this? Or do you have some other delegate or associate near the property that you can task this with? To get the real story on what's going on, you or a trusted & competent associate needs to be boots on the ground fast. Travel expense for such a trip would be part of my annual budget for an out-of-state rental. Are PMs in TN required to have real estate licenses? If so, filing a complaint against the PM may be another path of escalation after you get better intel on the situation.

    Good luck to you

  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    4y

    Deleted

  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Dave G.:

    @Abdul Azeez To me this requires some face-to-face time with the PM and an in-person inspection of the property. Are you working with a local realtor on the sale? Maybe you could employ them to do this? Or do you have some other delegate or associate near the property that you can task this with? To get the real story on what's going on, you or a trusted & competent associate needs to be boots on the ground fast. Travel expense for such a trip would be part of my annual budget for an out-of-state rental. Are PMs in TN required to have real estate licenses? If so, filing a complaint against the PM may be another path of escalation after you get better intel on the situation.

    Good luck to you

    I am working with a realtor recommended by crestcore. He has told me he is willing to have someone take a look outside for a small charge and give the estimate. However I also wanted interior pics. Hence the request to Reedy. But it is getting botched up at every stage. I am absolutely flabbergasted with the handling of these issues. The PM is telling me that tenant is not giving access to the property. How can this be the case? Did they not sign the agreement with the tenant with these provisions in the lease? I can travel to the property to take a look but if I can't get in there would be no point isn't it? Also if Reedy as PM is not able to gain access how will they facilitate me getting access after landing there? I do believe Reedy has a real estate license.

    How can PM not respond to escalation emails?

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y
    Well, your PM is an absolute waste. The law requires us to give notice of entry; it does not require tenant's permission. Your PM should notify them they WILL inspect at [TIME / DATE] and then show up with keys in hand and go in. If the tenant blocks them or becomes threatening, they should schedule it again for the following day and show up with the police and a locksmith.

    Since the house is for sale, I would hire a REALTOR (pay them for their time) to schedule a showing, then walk through and take pictures documenting the condition. Have them specifically document whatever repairs were supposed to take place at the Tenant's expense. You'll need this later.

    As for the PM, you should send them a written notice and mail it via Certified Mail with signature receipt. I would demand they communicate with you immediately or you will file an ethics complaint with the state board. If they don't respond, or don't respond to your satisfaction, then you should file a complaint. A phone call from the state board is often enough to motivate them to fix the situation before the state gets involved in an investigation. If that doesn't work, hire an attorney.

    Sorry for your troubles, but the only way to fix this is to play hardball.
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  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
    Well, your PM is an absolute waste. The law requires us to give notice of entry; it does not require tenant's permission. Your PM should notify them they WILL inspect at [TIME / DATE] and then show up with keys in hand and go in. If the tenant blocks them or becomes threatening, they should schedule it again for the following day and show up with the police and a locksmith.

    Since the house is for sale, I would hire a REALTOR (pay them for their time) to schedule a showing, then walk through and take pictures documenting the condition. Have them specifically document whatever repairs were supposed to take place at the Tenant's expense. You'll need this later.

    As for the PM, you should send them a written notice and mail it via Certified Mail with signature receipt. I would demand they communicate with you immediately or you will file an ethics complaint with the state board. If they don't respond, or don't respond to your satisfaction, then you should file a complaint. A phone call from the state board is often enough to motivate them to fix the situation before the state gets involved in an investigation. If that doesn't work, hire an attorney.

    Sorry for your troubles, but the only way to fix this is to play hardball.

    Thank you. A follow up question. I do have a realtor but to my knowledge you can only enter a rented property for inspection while it is being inspected after an offer.  Can you elaborate more on hiring a realtor and paying them that you have indicated above?

    The frustrating part is that Reedy has one guy who I have been escalating to and have asked him to respond but he never does. So I don't know what the point of escalation is.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    4y

    Call the PM, read your contract and find out how to fire them.  You also need to find out what the lease is with the tenant and give them notice.

    all the PM has to do is post notice of an inspection and when they will enter.  Then they enter.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Abdul Azeez:
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
    Well, your PM is an absolute waste. The law requires us to give notice of entry; it does not require tenant's permission. Your PM should notify them they WILL inspect at [TIME / DATE] and then show up with keys in hand and go in. If the tenant blocks them or becomes threatening, they should schedule it again for the following day and show up with the police and a locksmith.

    Since the house is for sale, I would hire a REALTOR (pay them for their time) to schedule a showing, then walk through and take pictures documenting the condition. Have them specifically document whatever repairs were supposed to take place at the Tenant's expense. You'll need this later.

    As for the PM, you should send them a written notice and mail it via Certified Mail with signature receipt. I would demand they communicate with you immediately or you will file an ethics complaint with the state board. If they don't respond, or don't respond to your satisfaction, then you should file a complaint. A phone call from the state board is often enough to motivate them to fix the situation before the state gets involved in an investigation. If that doesn't work, hire an attorney.

    Sorry for your troubles, but the only way to fix this is to play hardball.

    Thank you. A follow up question. I do have a realtor but to my knowledge you can only enter a rented property for inspection while it is being inspected after an offer.  Can you elaborate more on hiring a realtor and paying them that you have indicated above?

    The frustrating part is that Reedy has one guy who I have been escalating to and have asked him to respond but he never does. So I don't know what the point of escalation is.

    Are you saying the law only allows you to show a property after it's under contract? 
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  • Member since 2019 · 215 posts · 122 votes
    4y

    Sorry to hear about your troubles.  Anyone representing you can inspect the property with a 24 hour notice and set of keys.  Do you have the tenants contact information or is that being held by Reedy?  If you have a realtor they will need a key to conduct their business anyway.  Notify Reedy that the realtor will be to their office on X date to get a copy of the key and the tenants contact information to ensure they receive notice prior to a property visit.  If they do not comply follow through with the advice above on the Certified Mail Notice.

  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
    Quote from @Abdul Azeez:
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
    Well, your PM is an absolute waste. The law requires us to give notice of entry; it does not require tenant's permission. Your PM should notify them they WILL inspect at [TIME / DATE] and then show up with keys in hand and go in. If the tenant blocks them or becomes threatening, they should schedule it again for the following day and show up with the police and a locksmith.

    Since the house is for sale, I would hire a REALTOR (pay them for their time) to schedule a showing, then walk through and take pictures documenting the condition. Have them specifically document whatever repairs were supposed to take place at the Tenant's expense. You'll need this later.

    As for the PM, you should send them a written notice and mail it via Certified Mail with signature receipt. I would demand they communicate with you immediately or you will file an ethics complaint with the state board. If they don't respond, or don't respond to your satisfaction, then you should file a complaint. A phone call from the state board is often enough to motivate them to fix the situation before the state gets involved in an investigation. If that doesn't work, hire an attorney.

    Sorry for your troubles, but the only way to fix this is to play hardball.

    Thank you. A follow up question. I do have a realtor but to my knowledge you can only enter a rented property for inspection while it is being inspected after an offer.  Can you elaborate more on hiring a realtor and paying them that you have indicated above?

    The frustrating part is that Reedy has one guy who I have been escalating to and have asked him to respond but he never does. So I don't know what the point of escalation is.

    Are you saying the law only allows you to show a property after it's under contract? 

    Well I don't know. That's why I am asking. Usually when you see listings for a rented property it says no showing isn't it?

  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Michael Peters:

    Sorry to hear about your troubles.  Anyone representing you can inspect the property with a 24 hour notice and set of keys.  Do you have the tenants contact information or is that being held by Reedy?  If you have a realtor they will need a key to conduct their business anyway.  Notify Reedy that the realtor will be to their office on X date to get a copy of the key and the tenants contact information to ensure they receive notice prior to a property visit.  If they do not comply follow through with the advice above on the Certified Mail Notice.

     This is where I am confused. Usually from what I know the process of selling a rented property does not usually have showings until inspection. Can you help me understand this more?

  • Member since 2019 · 215 posts · 122 votes
    4y

    If you planned to sell it as a single family residence that is the traditional route.  You can also see if the agent can keep it as a pocket listing only showing it to serious buyers or market it to investors only.  Regardless if the agent is interested in selling the property they would want to do a market analysis and could document needed repairs to get the most value out of the property.  This could be done while tenants are still in.  You don't want to wait until their lease expires and then start from square one.

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    As far as inspections go: it's your property, you can go in. In Colorado the owner doesn't even have to give notice for regular non-emergency maintenance and repairs or showings to potential renters or buyers. In other states I think it's mostly 24 hours notice, but you don't need the tenant's permission. Showings for sale while occupied are common in tenanted units normally, but much less common now with covid, and you would have to check if there's a provision for this in your lease. 

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 349 posts · 418 votes
    4y

    In AZ it is 48 hour min notice for inspection and has nothing to do with whether the property is for sale or not. Tenant does not get a vote on if it is going to happen. PM should just be trying to get a mutually agreed upon day/time for the inspection. If tenant denies it, commence the eviction process as they are in breach of statutory law.

  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    4y

    I have reached out to the PM based on feedback here as to why they cannot gain access into the property by giving a 24-48 hour notice and I expect them to get back to me on when they will give notice, when they will perform the repairs and whether contact information of tenant and copy of key can be given to the realtor.

    On the realtor situation, the last offer for the property fell through but I still see the listing says under contract for over a month. Is this common or is this an oversight from the realtor? I have reached out asking why.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Abdul Azeez:

    I have reached out to the PM based on feedback here as to why they cannot gain access into the property by giving a 24-48 hour notice and I expect them to get back to me on when they will give notice, when they will perform the repairs and whether contact information of tenant and copy of key can be given to the realtor.

    On the realtor situation, the last offer for the property fell through but I still see the listing says under contract for over a month. Is this common or is this an oversight from the realtor? I have reached out asking why.

    "OVersight" would be forgetting to change the listing status for a day or two. Negligence is forgetting to change it for a month. I think you're wasting time asking questions and trying to get this clown to act like a professional. Find another agent that can do the job right and fire your current agent.
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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Abdul Azeez:

    I have reached out to the PM based on feedback here as to why they cannot gain access into the property by giving a 24-48 hour notice and I expect them to get back to me on when they will give notice, when they will perform the repairs and whether contact information of tenant and copy of key can be given to the realtor.

    On the realtor situation, the last offer for the property fell through but I still see the listing says under contract for over a month. Is this common or is this an oversight from the realtor? I have reached out asking why.

     Neither your PM or realtor is working for you. They are both doing a bad job.  Tell your PM that they should have keys to the place and post the notice and then enter.  Surely there is wording in the lease about entering the property.  Also tell the PM to give the tenants notice to vacate.

    Talk to your realtor and tell them the listing still says it is under contract and to update the listing.  If they don't within a week, call back and tell them you are finding another realtor.  

    Do all of this by phoning the people and talking to them, not by email.

  • Realtor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2022 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    4y

    @Abdul Azeez get your attorney involved! As an PM myself in FL you should have had your attorney review all documents first, that way your attorney can advise and counsel you on what can and can't be done in the state of TN by law to avoid any law suits. I agree with everyone giving advice but you really should seek advice from your counsel on this matter it seems like a bunch of balls being dropped and your property being botched at the same time. PM doesn't have your best interest and is doing an horrible job representing you as the property owner. I'm sorry!

    Wishing you the best!

  • Investor · Jefferson City, MO · Member since 2020 · 192 posts · 178 votes
    4y

    holy smokes... gets screwed by the PM, hires a realtor and the realtor drops the ball too!

    To provide some kind of value in my comment... in Missouri I've personally shown several tenant occupied rental properties. you simply give the tenant 24 hour notice and you show up. Of course you act professional and very kind and thank them for allowing you to walk through their living quarters (as a buyers agent) but you do it. I'm curious how anyone made offers on your property without walking it first? much less more than once? that's wild. who makes an offer sight unseen on a rental property?  

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    4y
    Stop sending emails and get on the phone. If you are talking to the owner, there is no escalation path. Use your people skills to work through this. You could also have your realtor contact them directly. Since they are both local, maybe they can meet and hash out the best path forward. Your leverage on the PM is very limited because you are selling, so they are loosing your business. Of course they should still do the right thing, but don't be pushy or demanding unless you are just planning to fire them. 
  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 349 posts · 418 votes
    4y

    @Abdul Azeez I agree with @Shaneka Prather that you ought to be considering counsel for help. Or you need to get smarter real fast as it appears that you are not very familiar with TN law and don't know the rules to hold your current garbage PM and tenants to. 

    In Arizona, we have (Arizona Revised Statutes) A.R.S Title 33 which is the "Arizona Residential Landlord and Tenant Act." This statutory law provides minimum definition (albeit it is 47 pages long) of the rights and obligations of landlords and tenants in AZ. It provides the basic legal agreement structure upon which leases expand from. Our leases cannot conflict or redefine any of the provisions in the Act. Our AZ landlord entry requirements (48 hours) are defined in this document. I would recommend you find out if there is a similar statutory document in TN to start reading. 

  • Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    Get your flight arranged for Monday morning. Spirt Air has $40 round trip and rent an Enterprise car. Arrive at 9 AM make flight home at 5 PM

    Call the owner of the Management company now. 

    "You must notify tenant there is a walk through at 10 AM Monday, email and post it on front door."

    No excuses. Get the tenant's phone number and email contact from Management Co. Have management co provide you a key, arrange the key pick up on the phone. Go there with the Realtor at 10. IF the Realtor is unavailable, fire them and have new Realtor show for the meeting. Get the Realtor's broker involved if you fire them, I wanted to say when you fire them but I'm hopeful you picked someone decent. If you need a new Realtor call me I know many in TN (what city?) Take 40 photos and a video. Water heater, roof ceilings from inside, tub, under sinks, everything you can access. Then exterior roof/electric panel photos. Have a locksmith go with you, tenants probably changed the locks on you. You have to provide them a key when you change it out. 

    Act with grace, strength, and fortitude fast.

    If you are selling no point in changing Management Co but you need to start the eviction process and get tenant out as no new buyer will want them and they can obstruct your sale.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 754 posts · 504 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Abdul Azeez:

    I have a property under management in Tenessee with Reedy and company where I have had the following issues. Who can I escalate to in company management to help with these? The person I have escalate to has not responded to even a single escalation email.

    1. Several repairs have been asked for by the property management company in the past. When I persisted the last few times, they identified the tenant was at fault for the damages and said they will charge the tenant ledger. They still asked me to pay the amount upfront for the repairs to happen which I did in Dec 2021. In early Jan 2021 the property management company confirmed to me that the repairs were done. Today, after persisting for photos of the repaid, the PM says that repairs were not done and they gave me erroneous information.

    2. While I noticed the issues with the tenant in the past, their lease was coming to an end in Dec 2021. I gave written direction to the PM to not renew the lease. However, this was ignored and the tenant lease was extended for 6 months.

    3. I put the property under sale in Dec 2021 and three offers have fallen through. When I persisted with the PM to take detailed photos of the state of the property along with the rehab costs if any, they promised the same early this week but after repeated follow ups I am now being told that the tenant was not available at the time they went for the inspection and tenant is not giving access.

    I don't live in Tennessee. I would like these issues to be immediately addressed. How do I solve this situation?

    Hi Abdul.

    Wow. Don't let any more time go by without solving this. Contact a real estate attorney, ASAP.

  • Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 731 votes
    4y

    @Abdul Azeez, late to the party and some good advice above.  Sad to say, you're not alone in these types of mismanaged scenarios.  A few thoughts/considerations:

    • Read Management Agreement:  Review the Mgmt Agreement to confirm they are meeting their own terms.  If not, notify them they're in breach of contract.  It might state how quickly they need to respond, what they can or cannot do without permission, etc.  And it'll also state how you must notify them with this 'breach of contract'.
    • Access to Property:  The tenant's don't call the shot here.  Yes, you must follow Tenn Landlord-Tenant laws as it'll state how much time is required for notice.  But the tenant cannot deny access.
    • Realtor:  Honestly, I'm a little surprised your realtor isn't helping handle the tenant situation.  After all, the faster and smoother this sales will help them get paid.
    • Tenant's Lease:  Definitely ask an attorney about this.  Your Management Agreement may state whether they have authority to sign on your behalf.  Not sure if you can void that Lease Agreement now if the PM had legal authority on your behalf.
    • For Sale Clause:  Back to reviewing your Management Agreement, verify if there is a For Sale Clause.  Some PM's have it in their terms that they earn a commission if the property is sold while they're managing.  Regardless if they were the agent!  It's one of the most evil terms there is.  I know somebody who lost in court when they sold their 10-unit and had to pay out an extra commission to the PM.
    • Terminate Agreement:  It may be worth firing this PM.  Your agreement will have a clause about this.  Typically, you will owe 100% of the remaining fees they would've earned.  It's bogus and another evil clause.  But if they're this difficult, it might be better to get rid of them sooner than later.  And since you're attempting to sell the home anyways, you'll have to terminate at some point.
  • Real Estate Broker · Omaha, NE · Member since 2020 · 329 posts · 203 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
    Well, your PM is an absolute waste. The law requires us to give notice of entry; it does not require tenant's permission. Your PM should notify them they WILL inspect at [TIME / DATE] and then show up with keys in hand and go in. If the tenant blocks them or becomes threatening, they should schedule it again for the following day and show up with the police and a locksmith.

    Since the house is for sale, I would hire a REALTOR (pay them for their time) to schedule a showing, then walk through and take pictures documenting the condition. Have them specifically document whatever repairs were supposed to take place at the Tenant's expense. You'll need this later.

    As for the PM, you should send them a written notice and mail it via Certified Mail with signature receipt. I would demand they communicate with you immediately or you will file an ethics complaint with the state board. If they don't respond, or don't respond to your satisfaction, then you should file a complaint. A phone call from the state board is often enough to motivate them to fix the situation before the state gets involved in an investigation. If that doesn't work, hire an attorney.

    Sorry for your troubles, but the only way to fix this is to play hardball.

     I have gotten in the habit of reading through responses before posting my own, and I have to say I don't think I can say it better than Nathan did. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Monroe Township, NJ · Member since 2016 · 468 posts · 85 votes
    4y

    Hello folks - thanks for all the inputs. The PM has got back to me with an update that they were looking for whether they had a key code for the property and that they do have it. And they have drafted a letter as a notice to the tenant that they will enter the property on Tuesday (Feb 1) at 9am. They have also promised that they will do the flooring repairs on Tuesday and if they cannot they will return the money to me.

    On the realtor front, the agent was extremely frustrated when I told him he could do a walkthrough. He said tenant is not going to allow him access if they are not allowing their own PM access and that he is very frustrated that the PM gave me the run around. He says They can legally post notice on the front door and enter with their master key on the property and do an inspection (this is what is being done now by the way based on the above).

    So right now I need to see what happens on Tuesday. I have also given a heads up to the PM that we may need to give the tenant notice to move out. Right now I just want to get past the inspection, repair and estimates stage first. When should I consider giving notice to the tenant?

    In the past for the first three offers I saw a lot of back and forth where realtor requestor PM for an inspection for the buyer and tenant was unreachable. In the future based on reading the above I am going to let the PM know that if they contact the tenant and they don't respond, I would like them to give notice of inspection walkthrough. Looks like this would be the right thing to do. Does anyone know about any reference to TN law where it says this can be done.

    Folks - and one last thing. I saw all the suggestions above. While I do agree that there is a lot of leverage you can have if you have multiple properties under management, in my case it is limited with the PM because I have only one. My experience with real estate in TN and long distance landlording has been a nightmare and this is the reason I am trying to get out. Going forward I will not be investing in long distance properties. I would either invest at home or park my money in the market where I have been very successful. I just want to get past this.

    By the way the property shows active and not under contract. Is there any way to check in Tennessee the change history to see when it was changed?

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