Water bill almost doubled. Can this be prove of ilegal occupant

Member since 2021 · 199 posts · 42 votes

Hi all, I have this tenant who water bill almost double up on same period of last year to this year . Super was telling me she has moved in few people . Last time he saw one guy and one girl this time he saw two guy and one girl.

I called her she say she only have over night weekend guest. and that’s all.

Please advice the matter what I should do. Is a studio size apartment now there is 3 or 4 people live there.

Super just told me he saw those people come in and put with a key but he refuse send me a text or picture. Which I undestand supers concern.

What can I do on court to prove the illegal occupant on court if I do take her for eviction?

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Jim K.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

Quote from @Matthew Paul:

See if they have a facebook account , people like to show off and brag , go to their friends accounts see if they said they moved in .

OR you could go stealth , get a van , some cameras , some dark sunglasses and do a stakeout , eat crappy junk food and drink lots of coffee .

Me , I would go and knock on the door and tell them you had a complaint from someone in the building about noise and wanted their side of the story , see who opens the door

Really, it doesn't take that much to get it all on camera. I once took @Nathan Gesner's suggestion to get a trail camera and a steel locking enclosure designed to fit it. You mount that thing in front of the main outside door, invest in some batteries, and you're golden with all in about a hundred and twenty dollars. I caught the tenant doing what I suspected was happening. When we evicted, the tenant challenged the fact that I put a camera on the outside of the building. The judge laughed, explained I had every right to monitor the exterior of my own property, and immediately filed summary judgment for us. And this is in supposedly bleeding-heart Pennsylvania.

Trail cameras are great.

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John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
4y
Get them on a seperate meter and let them pay for their own water.
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Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y
I’d also check for a leak. There is almost zero difference in a water bill for a home in vegas with 2 or 4 people in it. Your local water department should be able to tell you the last time the meter stopped moving. (A slab or water main leak) but it could also be as simple as a leaking toilet flapper.
You could also schedule “an inspection because of water use doubling” with appropriate notice for your area. But also as mentioned above they should be billed for all utilities.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Tina Lee:

It depends on your state laws. You can certainly conduct an inspection of the property to determine if extra people are living there. If you find any evidence at all, give her notice of the violation and 72 hours to move them out and pass another inspection. You can also charge her for the excess water use.
If there's no evidence of extra occupants, the excess water may be due to a toilet that constantly runs or flushes. If that's the case, it's your responsibility to fix it and pay for the excess water use.
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Greg M.
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Tina Lee:

What can I do on court to prove the illegal occupant on court if I do take her for eviction?
You bring the Super (or his notarized statement) and a copy of the water bills to court. Super states he sees 3 people other than the tenant staying in the unit and repeatedly using keys to gain entrance. You show the water bills with the dramatically increased usage starting around the time the Super noticed the new people. Judge puts 2+2 together and you cross your fingers the judge thinks it equals 4.
2 Reply
Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
4y
See if they have a facebook account , people like to show off and brag , go to their friends accounts see if they said they moved in .
OR you could go stealth , get a van , some cameras , some dark sunglasses and do a stakeout , eat crappy junk food and drink lots of coffee .
Me , I would go and knock on the door and tell them you had a complaint from someone in the building about noise and wanted their side of the story , see who opens the door
1 Reply
Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Matthew Paul:

See if they have a facebook account , people like to show off and brag , go to their friends accounts see if they said they moved in .
OR you could go stealth , get a van , some cameras , some dark sunglasses and do a stakeout , eat crappy junk food and drink lots of coffee .
Me , I would go and knock on the door and tell them you had a complaint from someone in the building about noise and wanted their side of the story , see who opens the door

Really, it doesn't take that much to get it all on camera. I once took @Nathan Gesner's suggestion to get a trail camera and a steel locking enclosure designed to fit it. You mount that thing in front of the main outside door, invest in some batteries, and you're golden with all in about a hundred and twenty dollars. I caught the tenant doing what I suspected was happening. When we evicted, the tenant challenged the fact that I put a camera on the outside of the building. The judge laughed, explained I had every right to monitor the exterior of my own property, and immediately filed summary judgment for us. And this is in supposedly bleeding-heart Pennsylvania.

Trail cameras are great.
4 Reply
Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
4y
@Jim K. But a stakeout , and dark sunglasses sounds like more fun .
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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Matthew Paul:

@Jim K. But a stakeout , and dark sunglasses sounds like more fun .

You're right. Where's my sense of adventure?
1 Reply
Tina Lee
OP
Member since 2021 · 199 posts · 42 votes
4y
@Jim K. Thank you for your suggestion. Is a condo building there is no way I can put camera outside my door. Is against law here.
The super was telling me on the side he doesn’t want to get involved on the matter.
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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Tina Lee:

@Jim K. Thank you for your suggestion. Is a condo building there is no way I can put camera outside my door. Is against law here.
The super was telling me on the side he doesn’t want to get involved on the matter

Then it looks like you're stuck with @Matthew Paul's suggestion: get a basic dSLR camera and a 350mm-equivalent lens. I hope the camping toilet in your stakeout van seals properly.
1 Reply
Adam Martin
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
4y
I think an inspection to check water efficiency is the best play to ensure none of the faucets or toilets are leaking. During this inspection you can also see if there are signs of extra tenants. You mention it went up from last year so if the tenant became M2M decide if you want to keep them or not. If not non renew and try to find some better tenants. If you are ok keeping them there increase rent to cover the extra water and other utilities plus I'd add a bit extra as a PITA tax.
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