Can I change provision for month to month lease?
Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes
Can I change provision for month to month lease?
Most Popular Reply
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
4y1. Yes. If she's on month to month you can require her to sign a new lease or terminate her M2M tenancy.
2. No. You can put anything in the new lease that's not against the law, but that's no guarantee she will sign it. Then you might be back to #1.
3. Yes. See #2
4. No. You can do anything you want with a new lease once the old lease is up. Follow the terms for providing notice on the old lease in case it automatically kicks to a new one-year lease (rare) or M2M lease (common). Then have them sign the new lease.
In all of this, unless you are severely under market rates, you should prepare for the possibility of losing one or more tenants. If they are grossly under market, this might not be a bad thing. Personally, I'm not a fan of leases greater than M2M once the initial lease is up (we give our new tenants a 1-year). We'll sign a new one with an existing tenant if they were a great tenant and want another fixed lease, but 95% of our tenants just go M2M once their lease is up.
Skyline Properties
25 Replies
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes4y
1. Yes. If she's on month to month you can require her to sign a new lease or terminate her M2M tenancy.
2. No. You can put anything in the new lease that's not against the law, but that's no guarantee she will sign it. Then you might be back to #1.
3. Yes. See #2
4. No. You can do anything you want with a new lease once the old lease is up. Follow the terms for providing notice on the old lease in case it automatically kicks to a new one-year lease (rare) or M2M lease (common). Then have them sign the new lease.
In all of this, unless you are severely under market rates, you should prepare for the possibility of losing one or more tenants. If they are grossly under market, this might not be a bad thing. Personally, I'm not a fan of leases greater than M2M once the initial lease is up (we give our new tenants a 1-year). We'll sign a new one with an existing tenant if they were a great tenant and want another fixed lease, but 95% of our tenants just go M2M once their lease is up.
Skyline Properties - Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4y
@JD Martin thank you very much for your detailed reply! It is very helpful! More questions to follow up: 1. Do you charge a bit higher rent if tenants go M2M?
2. If we terminate this M2M tenant, do we just need to give her a 30-day notice? Her rate is below market and she refused to move her car when we asked her to move it to a different spot, giving us another reason to end the tenancy, lol.
3. What about terminating the one-year lease tenant? Also 30-day notice?
4. One unit of this property is a commercial store. We need to sign a new lease with the tenant. Do you have any commercial lease template or any recommendations of attorneys?
Thank you! Really appreciate your input!
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes4y
Quote from @Robin Evans:
@JD Martin thank you very much for your detailed reply! It is very helpful! More questions to follow up: 1. Do you charge a bit higher rent if tenants go M2M?
2. If we terminate this M2M tenant, do we just need to give her a 30-day notice? Her rate is below market and she refused to move her car when we asked her to move it to a different spot, giving us another reason to end the tenancy, lol.
3. What about terminating the one-year lease tenant? Also 30-day notice?
4. One unit of this property is a commercial store. We need to sign a new lease with the tenant. Do you have any commercial lease template or any recommendations of attorneys?
Thank you! Really appreciate your input!
1. Not usually. I like to keep it fluid so I can just charge whatever I want later. We used to have an automatic escalator in the lease for more on a M2M but then tenants want to sign another lease and I prefer them on M2M.
2. Generally, yes. Whatever the provisions in the lease were is what's going to be in effect for M2M which is usually 30 days. That might be governed by your state laws too.
3. Depends on what your lease says and state law.
4. I'm not very helpful there but @Joel Owens is a commercial guru around here.Skyline Properties - Lender · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 250 posts · 133 votes4y
You can have her sign a new lease with new terms.
- Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
Ohio seems fair to me. Tenant can quit or landlord can quit. 30 days notice rquired. Lucky you're not in California or Washington.
- Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
To answer your title question. Yes, you can change provisions now that the tenancy is month to month. You can change something every month if you like, but I wouldn't suggest it.
Be respectful. Send your new terms. check yes, continue month to month under new terms. check no, state the date that she will have to leave(minimum 30 days).
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4y
@JD Martin @H. Jack Miller @Henry T. Ohio is indeed very landlord freindly!Thank you so much for all the replies! Very helpful! It will be just so easy to have our own tenants instead of inheriting tenants, lol. A technical question for the one-year lease tenant (might sound silly). We will resign the lease with the old provisions. Do we just white out the previous landlord info and signature and put our info and sign on it and date it with current date? Lease might look a bit odd...
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes4y
Quote from @Robin Evans:
@JD Martin @H. Jack Miller @Henry T. Ohio is indeed very landlord freindly!Thank you so much for all the replies! Very helpful! It will be just so easy to have our own tenants instead of inheriting tenants, lol. A technical question for the one-year lease tenant (might sound silly). We will resign the lease with the old provisions. Do we just white out the previous landlord info and signature and put our info and sign on it and date it with current date? Lease might look a bit odd...
No, you should have your own document and just incorporate whatever is necessary from the old lease. You can either add the language explicitly or refer to the old lease and include it as an item/addendum to the current lease. Best practice is always to start fresh so you don't inadvertently agree to things that are not in your best interest.Skyline Properties - Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4y
- Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
Write a new lease. Fill it up with everything. I have 3 paragraphs just on Lawn mowing and the penalties there of, 3 paragrraphes on vehicles and the penalties, etc, BBQ's away from house, etc, Pets and disturbance and penalties, noise, rubbish and penalties, etc, .....You're new at this. Find a local landlord group you can join and get some basic forms. Then add your own additional 20 pages of particulars. Gotta love Ohio. Dayton. And home of the mighty Wright Brothers!!! What a town! Wright/Patterson wow! The beginning of Aviation! Huffman Field, ....sorry, I get carried away.
- 4yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Robin Evans I would add that if the lease is silent on where to park you can assign spaces. She might not follow the rules and if she doesn't it probably isn't worth the aggravation of having her annoy other tenants and then she needs to go. I am assuming here that the parking is already an issue and assigning spacing would be to solve that issue. The lease questions you already have great responses.
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4yThank you for the helpful advice! You can never go wrong on setting up the detailed rules upfront! We will look for a local landlord group and join! Airforce museum is indeed one of the gems in Dayton!
Quote from @Henry T.:
Write a new lease. Fill it up with everything. I have 3 paragraphs just on Lawn mowing and the penalties there of, 3 paragrraphes on vehicles and the penalties, etc, BBQ's away from house, etc, Pets and disturbance and penalties, noise, rubbish and penalties, etc, .....You're new at this. Find a local landlord group you can join and get some basic forms. Then add your own additional 20 pages of particulars. Gotta love Ohio. Dayton. And home of the mighty Wright Brothers!!! What a town! Wright/Patterson wow! The beginning of Aviation! Huffman Field, ....sorry, I get carried away.
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4yThat's smart! The issue now is she refused to move her car to the parking space. She would rather park by the stairs which is not part of parking lot. We have put assigning parking space in the new lease and will see if she signs. Thank you very much!
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Robin Evans I would add that if the lease is silent on where to park you can assign spaces. She might not follow the rules and if she doesn't it probably isn't worth the aggravation of having her annoy other tenants and then she needs to go. I am assuming here that the parking is already an issue and assigning spacing would be to solve that issue. The lease questions you already have great responses.
- 4yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Robin Evans if she doesn't listen you can also put a barrier where she is parking such as a pole or rocks so she can't park there.
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4yThat's a smart idea! Love it, lol! Thank you so much!
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Robin Evans if she doesn't listen you can also put a barrier where she is parking such as a pole or rocks so she can't park there.
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4y
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Robin Evans if she doesn't listen you can also put a barrier where she is parking such as a pole or rocks so she can't park there.
That's a smart idea! Love it, lol! Thank you so much!
Guess what, she is the ONE that keeps creating issues. She didn't pay June on due date June 1st and didn't respond to our messages and calls either. Finally she got back to us June 2nd saying her income has changed so HUD and her share change too and she is waiting on their confirmation. So she didn't pay her share. And her previous landlord never charges a late fee. Well she told me exactly how much she is responsible and how much HUD is responsible! We said we are not previous landlord and we go with the lease. Regardless, you need to pay a late fee. If you still don't pay rent, there is a $ 5 charge for each additional fee per lease. She has the money for rent but $ 20 short for late fee so asked us if we still charge her $ 5 late fee if she pays the rent now and pays $ 20 in 10 days. If we do, she is going to move. I told myself in my head " go ahead, be my guest", lol. But since she pays the rent on the second day, we will just charge the $ 25 late fee. It is not fun to inherit tenants like this. The question is when we buy rental property, can we request sellers to get rid of their tenants? Thank you all for the input and have a great weekend!
- 4yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Robin Evans you certainly can put deliver vacant in your purchase agreement but in most cases this only works if the tenant is already deliquent or the seller is willing to do a cash for keys. In general, the rental agreement survives the sale. Section 8 you definitely would not be successful in deliver vacant unless the tenant is already on the path to eviction. If your tenant is not current and you want to get rid of her you should serve all notices to get her out so if she doesn't move on her own you can proceed. It may not be as easy to for her to get another section 8 rental as she thinks.
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4yGood to know! Thank you so much! New update is she doesn't like the different lease, like non smoking, no pets, that we presented her and would not sign it. She claims she has been looking for bigger place for 3 years and will definitely move by end of year. As long as she pays the rent and moves her car to a designated space, we can keep her for 6 months. If not, we will just give her a 30 day notice and let her go. That way, it gives us some time to rehab the vacant unit and rent it out and rehab hers after she moves out. Is that a good approach? Appreciate your input in advance!
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Robin Evans you certainly can put deliver vacant in your purchase agreement but in most cases this only works if the tenant is already deliquent or the seller is willing to do a cash for keys. In general, the rental agreement survives the sale. Section 8 you definitely would not be successful in deliver vacant unless the tenant is already on the path to eviction. If your tenant is not current and you want to get rid of her you should serve all notices to get her out so if she doesn't move on her own you can proceed. It may not be as easy to for her to get another section 8 rental as she thinks.
- 4yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Robin Evans If she is already smoking in the unit there is no disadvantage to allowing her to stay and not sign that provision. If she doesn't have a pet also not an issue that she doesn't sign that. I am not sure how this holds up in court but in MF I always put a clause that tenants must follow property rules for common areas which may change from time to time to cover things you never think of that people do. I think your approach is good as long as she pays. If she is looking for 3 years though you may just have to give her notice at some point. She may be looking for a unicorn..
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4y
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Robin Evans If she is already smoking in the unit there is no disadvantage to allowing her to stay and not sign that provision. If she doesn't have a pet also not an issue that she doesn't sign that. I am not sure how this holds up in court but in MF I always put a clause that tenants must follow property rules for common areas which may change from time to time to cover things you never think of that people do. I think your approach is good as long as she pays. If she is looking for 3 years though you may just have to give her notice at some point. She may be looking for a unicorn..
@Colleen F. thank you for your input! Sorry for being so late to respond! She does have two cats although the lease says no pet. She said the previous owner told her she didn't have to pay pet deposit or monthly fee but there is no written pet amendment. So we told her she can keep the cats but need to pay pet deposit and monthly fee. She doesn't like the idea and will not pay. We will just plan to part with her at the end of the year as long as she pays her rent. Would try our best not to inherit tenants again!
- 4yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Robin Evans ah pets, you probably can't determine if the other landlord gave her permission but that lease is up and you said she is on month to month now, you gave her a fee and she won't pay it. I would just give her notice of terminations sooner rather than later. The reason being is she is the kind of tenant that is dictating terms and she is only likely to get more difficult. I would not believe she is leaving at the end of the year. She has been looking for THREE years, she isn't going to find what she is looking for. If the end of the year is better for you then do that but don't do it because she said that is good for her because I bet she will push you as far as she can.
You could give her a generous 60 or more days notice or say hey you won't sign the lease here is a termination of occupancy agreement on x date (it could be in 6 months). You need to sign this now, if she doesn't sign it you have your answer and serve a termination notice.
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4yThat is very helpful insight and great idea! We will send a termination notice here in a few days (6 months) and will not let her dictate this. So the question is if she fails to pay rent or something else pops up, can we give her another termination notice that says the tenancy ends sooner? Or do we need to put something in the termination notice now saying if anything happens that could lead to shorter tenancy? Appreciate it a lot!
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Robin Evans ah pets, you probably can't determine if the other landlord gave her permission but that lease is up and you said she is on month to month now, you gave her a fee and she won't pay it. I would just give her notice of terminations sooner rather than later. The reason being is she is the kind of tenant that is dictating terms and she is only likely to get more difficult. I would not believe she is leaving at the end of the year. She has been looking for THREE years, she isn't going to find what she is looking for. If the end of the year is better for you then do that but don't do it because she said that is good for her because I bet she will push you as far as she can.
You could give her a generous 60 or more days notice or say hey you won't sign the lease here is a termination of occupancy agreement on x date (it could be in 6 months). You need to sign this now, if she doesn't sign it you have your answer and serve a termination notice.
- 4yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Robin Evans of course follow your local laws. Some places it is up to 90 days notice you need to give but if she stops paying you just file for eviction. If it were me and she were on Month to Month I would send a nice letter saying as we discussed you stated you will be leaving by the end of the year. Please sign acknowledgement of receipt of notice of termination of tenancy on x date to confirm this agreement. Frankly if she refuses to sign a lease and an acknowledgement she is leaving I can see an eviction in your future. If she keeps paying rent you will probably receive some acknowledgement verbally or via text that she received notice and that will document notice was sent, that said she still might not leave when you ask her.
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4yIn Ohio, it is 30- day notice if on month to month lease. We will try to avoid eviction as best as we can. But if she pushes us to that step, we will just have to. Last time we handed her a late rent notice and asked her to sign, she did. Finger crossed, she keeps paying her rent and leaves by the end of year. Thank you so much for all the input and great ideas! Wish you the best!
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Robin Evans of course follow your local laws. Some places it is up to 90 days notice you need to give but if she stops paying you just file for eviction. If it were me and she were on Month to Month I would send a nice letter saying as we discussed you stated you will be leaving by the end of the year. Please sign acknowledgement of receipt of notice of termination of tenancy on x date to confirm this agreement. Frankly if she refuses to sign a lease and an acknowledgement she is leaving I can see an eviction in your future. If she keeps paying rent you will probably receive some acknowledgement verbally or via text that she received notice and that will document notice was sent, that said she still might not leave when you ask her.
- Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2022 · 103 posts · 49 votes4y
Quote from @Colleen F.:
@Robin Evans of course follow your local laws. Some places it is up to 90 days notice you need to give but if she stops paying you just file for eviction. If it were me and she were on Month to Month I would send a nice letter saying as we discussed you stated you will be leaving by the end of the year. Please sign acknowledgement of receipt of notice of termination of tenancy on x date to confirm this agreement. Frankly if she refuses to sign a lease and an acknowledgement she is leaving I can see an eviction in your future. If she keeps paying rent you will probably receive some acknowledgement verbally or via text that she received notice and that will document notice was sent, that said she still might not leave when you ask her.
We did give her a 6-month notice in person and she did sign it. My question is without a lease signed between her and us, will the old lease work if we have to evict her down the road? Should we still sign a month-to-month lease (ends the end of 2022) with her using the old lease provisions just in case of future eviction? She has not caused any more issues so far, lol.
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