High Maintenance Tenant - Looking for your input

OP

Member since 2021 · 44 posts · 8 votes

4y

@David P. The tenants were never late on rent. To be fair, they are clean, polite and easy to talk to in person. I agree some of the repair requests are easy fix, but I am annoyed by the frequency and excessively long emails. It's like he would go around picking on things every month before paying rent. He insists on being at home when there's a repair. The constant difficulty to access the house really strike my nerve. He even asked us to send handyman on weekends because they "would always be home on weekends". The latest email on the deck and fridge is the last straw. Here's what he wrote:

"3. As mentioned previously, the back deck has severe rot throughout which has impacted the paint adhesion, in addition to the water-absorbent filler applied to areas of rot prior to the last painting. I noticed the other day a baluster/wooden-spindle that has no wood left on the inside for any support screws to hold on to. I haven't looked far beyond this to see if there are others at this stage of degradation. With two and six year old children in the home, I am concerned about unsecured posts and railing components on the deck. Additionally, the rot is beginning to reveal and push up some screw heads on the deck floor. I will go around and see if any of these can be driven back in to avoid someone catching/cutting their feet, though given the wood condition, there may not be much for the screws to attach to, and it would only be a temporary fix.
4. I have mentioned multiple times in the past the refridgerator's intermittent cooling and thawing behaviour. I first let you know about this in early December; then on Christmas it froze solid what we were planning to make for our holiday dinner. In January, it stopped cooling everything altogether and I had to throw out and restock everything in the fridge at a cost of ~$550. I also mentioned this again in March when inquiring about the intermittent ice machine behavior which I had let you know about in December as well. Beginning last week, some items in the fridge were partially frozen, and sometime between yesterday and this morning, things must have frozen again and thawed as there were pools of water and ice in the fridge. Strangely enough, the ice machine which your husband observed as broken and couldn't fix in March of this year, decided to start making ice again two weeks ago (though we no longer use the ice or water functions as they have either not been working, or have not been flushed from the water impacted by the Marshall Fire). Per our conversation when you were last at the house looking at the fridge, all of the door seals appear to work properly and there is no obstructed air circulation or items pushed against the walls or rear which would isolate freezing (each time freezing and thawing has occurred, it does so throughout the fridge, not just in one area). I unfortunately had to leave early this morning for work meetings and did not have time to go through the fridge entirely to see what is salvageable, and what has to be replaced. If you would like, I can search for possible remedies or components that can be replaced within the fridge (circuit board, thermostat, etc), though the unit is 17 years old and I'm not sure what parts may still be available."

@JD Martin I know I shouldn't let tenants buy appliance. but I was overseas and his email wording was serious. I am not entirely sure of his intention. I don't know if he is documenting landlord actions for some reason.

Roman A Elizarov

Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 19 posts · 18 votes

4y

This is an extremely bad tenant in terms of cash flow. I have one just like that from Section 8 who is used to taking and not making anything. They are polite but they want you to be a sort of their "slave".

Now my next moves are:

1) increased rental amount;

2) month-to-month lease only;

3) set the appointments for repairs in a longer prospective from the date of complaint.

I do not think that you need a property manager, as most part of them are cheaters, I just think you will have to divide the real important issues for living from just a sort of manipulative issues which do not influence their living at all.

And maybe for the next tenants, I will create a sort of manifesto with all the issues involved. I think there was a nice example of such a document as a part of the lease agreement in the book by Brandon Turner "The Book on Managing Rental Properties" from 2016.

David P.

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

4y

Quote from @Anne W.:

@David P. The tenants were never late on rent. To be fair, they are clean, polite and easy to talk to in person. I agree some of the repair requests are easy fix, but I am annoyed by the frequency and excessively long emails. It's like he would go around picking on things every month before paying rent. He insists on being at home when there's a repair. The constant difficulty to access the house really strike my nerve. He even asked us to send handyman on weekends because they "would always be home on weekends". The latest email on the deck and fridge is the last straw. Here's what he wrote:

"3. As mentioned previously, the back deck has severe rot throughout which has impacted the paint adhesion, in addition to the water-absorbent filler applied to areas of rot prior to the last painting. I noticed the other day a baluster/wooden-spindle that has no wood left on the inside for any support screws to hold on to. I haven't looked far beyond this to see if there are others at this stage of degradation. With two and six year old children in the home, I am concerned about unsecured posts and railing components on the deck. Additionally, the rot is beginning to reveal and push up some screw heads on the deck floor. I will go around and see if any of these can be driven back in to avoid someone catching/cutting their feet, though given the wood condition, there may not be much for the screws to attach to, and it would only be a temporary fix.
4. I have mentioned multiple times in the past the refridgerator's intermittent cooling and thawing behaviour. I first let you know about this in early December; then on Christmas it froze solid what we were planning to make for our holiday dinner. In January, it stopped cooling everything altogether and I had to throw out and restock everything in the fridge at a cost of ~$550. I also mentioned this again in March when inquiring about the intermittent ice machine behavior which I had let you know about in December as well. Beginning last week, some items in the fridge were partially frozen, and sometime between yesterday and this morning, things must have frozen again and thawed as there were pools of water and ice in the fridge. Strangely enough, the ice machine which your husband observed as broken and couldn't fix in March of this year, decided to start making ice again two weeks ago (though we no longer use the ice or water functions as they have either not been working, or have not been flushed from the water impacted by the Marshall Fire). Per our conversation when you were last at the house looking at the fridge, all of the door seals appear to work properly and there is no obstructed air circulation or items pushed against the walls or rear which would isolate freezing (each time freezing and thawing has occurred, it does so throughout the fridge, not just in one area). I unfortunately had to leave early this morning for work meetings and did not have time to go through the fridge entirely to see what is salvageable, and what has to be replaced. If you would like, I can search for possible remedies or components that can be replaced within the fridge (circuit board, thermostat, etc), though the unit is 17 years old and I'm not sure what parts may still be available."

@JD Martin I know I shouldn't let tenants buy appliance. but I was overseas and his email wording was serious. I am not entirely sure of his intention. I don't know he is documenting landlord actions for some reason.

These sound exactly like my tenants. I don't think your tenants are actually doing it on purpose but it is part of who they are. My tenants installed security cameras everywhere inside/outside. One time the neighbor next door had a fumigation and one of the men jumped over to their yard temporarily and that was a huge blown up fuss where they wrote a formal letter to the neighbor saying they will call the cops for tresspassing. Basically what i have come to learn is that there are easy going people and then there are other ppl like that. My tenant are paying a good amount of rent $4k/month so i do tolerate most of their request. I remember the first day they moved in they brought me over to check out some broken blinds and then they pointed at a spot in there closet and asked if that was mold. I told them that was just dirty mark after i had the house painted. I thought i was screwed with a bad high maintance tenant after that but over the course of the year it hasn't been too bad and they are like your tenant very clean, and borderline anal in regards to things.

OP

Member since 2021 · 44 posts · 8 votes

4y

@Theresa Harris thank you for the suggestion of happy clause. Do you have a formal language that I can borrow?

OP

Member since 2021 · 44 posts · 8 votes

4y

@David P. my tenants installed security cameras, too. inside, outside, garage...I used to think they are just who they are, but this latest email exchange really agitated me. I want them out, but I want vet my decision here since everyone is more experienced.

When I was out of country, I received two emails from the tenant, one is 4500-word repair request, one is 5000-word to passive-aggressively clarify since he probably sensed my frustration. Excuse me, but no one has time for his need to be heard or his feelings other than his poor mother or wife. I addressed each of his requests and offered solution. If I were the tenant, I would either stay quiet or wrote back saying "thank you and let's regroup after you come back from your trip".

Also, why things worked fine and just start breaking once they move in? I've never had problem with fridge, tub piping, garage door (forgot to mention this repair), did-not-know-it-exist exterior spigot. I am not making cash flow on this property with this kind of repairs.

Theresa HarrisPro Member

Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

4y

Quote from @Anne W.:

@Theresa Harris thank you for the suggestion of happy clause. Do you have a formal language that I can borrow?

I don't. Just tell them what I wrote earlier.

1 Reply

Eric Caulley

Investor · Spring, TX · Member since 2017 · 16 posts · 10 votes

4y

@Bjorn Ahlblad I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Our approach for such tenants is to offer to give them back their deposit in full if they will leave 30 days.

We don't put up with it.

Usually, the tenant settles down and becomes a model tenant if not we lose a bad tenant.

Either way, we win.

The moral of the story:

Do not let the tenant intimidate you. It never ends well.

4 Reply

Danny Polanski

Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 184 posts · 182 votes

4y

I will be the devils advocate here. I appreciate when my tenants tell me of every little issue, especially water leaks and safety items.

Is this tenant high maintenance? Possibly. I would be concerned with screw heads and such with small children also. Most all items he has complained about seem legit to me as a LL.

Id replace the fridge myself with a used one off FB Marketplace and replace the screws if needed. Replace a couple bad boards and a boluster and be done with it.

The fridge is at its end of life anyways. Nothing the tenant complains about is something they are breaking, at least as far as I can tell.

Maybe they notify you too much, yes. But seems to me like they are taking care of the place.

3 Reply

OP

Member since 2021 · 44 posts · 8 votes

4y

@Danny Polanski Yes, I thought they were taking care of the house, that's why I put up with all the repair requests until now. His latest email with 5 items, however, doesn't give me good vibe. He said the deck has rotten pieces "throughout the deck". My understanding is that only major replacement satisfies his safety concern. The word "safety" is red flag to me with his small kids. I couldn't help thinking what he is up to. As to the fridge, it's old but we've never had problem with it. Nevertheless, I was going to buy a used fridge just to silence him.

They don't intended to be long-term tenants, and they are a huge PIA in terms of scheduling repair. They don't let us access the house if they are not there. One time, my husband and washer delivery was 5 min early for the appointment, he said we "broke into the house while his wife is with a client".

Honestly, he leaves no rock unturned living in the house, fully utilize every inch of it. This constant repair eats up all the cash flow. I think our tenant would make all home inspectors feel incompetent. I am not sure if they didn't break anything. That exterior spigot, we don't even know it existed. He started using it, but didn't proper winterize, the leaking is because the water left in the pipe, froze and burst the pipe behind the siding.

OP

Member since 2021 · 44 posts · 8 votes

4y

@Danny Polanski when you buy a fridge off FB, do you hire movers? What would you consider an acceptable deal given there's no warranty?

David P.

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

4y

I would actually not buy used applainces unless it was for maybe a short term rental. Costco is way to go. They got sales monthly, 2 year warranty and free install/haul away. Time you waste on movers time and labor pretty much would be a wash and then you might get a junk that breaks in few months.

3 Reply

Danny Polanski

Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 184 posts · 182 votes

4y

There will be no warranty on a used fridge or any other appliance bought off FB marketplace from a private seller.

The last recent appliance I bought used was a gas dryer. I made sure it worked while I was there, paid $75 cash, then loaded it up into my dads suv. I was going to ask my brother in law to help, but my dad wanted to. I have a small cargo trailer that fits on my little jeep i was going to use, or I would rent a HD pickup truck for under $50.

If you hire someone for this, they have apps for that like the dolly app, etc.

Richard F.

Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

4y

Quote from @Anne W.:

Rent is 3K, but is average for that area. 2-yr lease and we are halfway. Tenants are husband+wife+6 & 2 yso. Husband owns a small business, has a rental in another city, 800+ credit score. Wife just started working.

I mainly deal with the husband and I've found it get increasingly difficult to manage tenants. I would say that they are my stresser these days. I am quite surprised by the maintenance needs. Here's the laundry list of repair items in the past 12 months.

1) fridge doesn't make ice consistently: we repaired twice. I also offered to buy silicone ice trays

2) sprinklers don't water the lawn evenly causing certain area saturate with water: repaired

3) basement shower head occasionally dripping water: repaired

4) master bedroom ceiling light/fan turned on by itself at nights: repaired

5) gas fireplace flame is smaller than optimal: ignored

6) water accumulating on window wood sills: turns out they set humidifier at 60% indoor causing condensation

7) Kids bathroom toilet water tank - slow water intake: repaired

8) unused rifle bullet found on the sidewalk - tenant was very agitated: I went to the sheriff's office and was told it's hunting season and someone probably dropped it.

9) Washer making loud metal banging noise. - Manufacturer attempted to repair three times and eventually I managed to get a new washer under the warranty, but the delivery was such a headache because tenant refused to let us in if they were not home. He even accused my husband "broke into the house with the delivery team when his wife is with her client".

10) master bathroom tub faucet pipe leaking causing water stain on the family room ceiling: repaired. We used maybe 10 times during our 12 years living there. They use every day, so the copper pipe eroded. We took down tiles to access the plumbing, so there's tile, drywall repair, paint, etc.

11) fridge sometimes froze his food, sometimes is not cold enough - I checked it and told him "it's uncommon that the fridge is both hot and cold. Please make sure the door is sealed shut". It's a 17 years old fridge, but we've never had any problem with it and we cooked daily living in that house.

12) The main valve for the sprinkler system (outside) leaked water - repaired

13) a sprinkler head broken shooting water to the sidewalk - repaired

14) Backyard wooden deck has two quarter-size paint chips which exposed wood filler underneath - ignored.

The tenant's always emailed the maintenance request, polite and LONG emails. They are monthly and the most recent one is bi-weekly. As I was thinking the repair needs would ease off while entering the 2nd year of the lease, I was quite stressed when I received another LONG email when I was out of country. In this email, there are five items.

1) Outside spigot is leaking water inside the house - we have never used that spigot.

2) a dead small aspen in the front yard

3) clogged gutter

4) Deck has rotted posts and floor boards - "unsafe for his children"..."hurt their bare feet"..."try to screw would be temporary fix" - the wood deck was repaired and painted one year ago.

5) Fridge spoiled his food - tenants said he told us "multiple times" the fridge is bad news and it costed "$550 damage" to his food over the holidays because they were "frozen" in the refrigerator section and spoiled as they adjusted temp higher.

I immediately told tenants that they can go buy an used fridge and I will reimburse them when I am back to the States. I told them I will inspect the deck and address other items when I am back. In the meantime, no one should walk on the deck barefoot or ride on railings like it's a toy. TBH, I was quite annoyed by the frequency of his long emails and told him please send future maintenance needs to a designated email and a business phone number. Instead of stopping there and then, the tenant wrote another LONG essay fully aware that I was out of country and couldn't do much. They didn't buy the fridge, said the deck repair is not urgent and inquired if I feel them as "challenging tenants". I didn't read this essay until my flight back, but I couldn't get rid of the annoyance and it did negatively impacted my vacation.

I don't have a great first impression for this tenant. He chased after us for a 2-year lease. We marketed the property as "no pet, only W/D hook up". Somehow, I allowed their future cat and bought new W/D for them when we signed the lease (I thought it's a goodwill effort, but I now know those are mistakes). Three weeks after signing the lease he told me he wanted to buy a house. I know he has been looking aggressively in our area since moving in. While I think he should be honest upfront and maybe rent from a rental community (there's a nice one 5 min away and belong to the same elementary school), what's done is done. About a month ago, he started pushing me to share our plan after the 2-yr lease ends (which is one year from now). He said it would help decide "how aggressively he should be looking".

Overall I am pretty fed up by this tenant, but I don't want to make an emotion decision. Maybe I just don't know how to manage him. How would you handle this situation?

Aloha,

Short answer, there are far more Good Tenants than Bad, don't stress and waste your time. Advise them (in writing, email is fine) that clearly they are not happy, and you will let them out of their agreement with no penalty, as long as the property is left free of personal property and rubbish, and, they pay a pro-rated amount for every day until keys are handed over. Further, depending on local law, advise them the offer is good for a maximum of 45 days.

Overall, it sounds to me like the house is tired and probably in worse condition than you "see", as former occupant. It is surprising how much actual deterioration you just do not notice happening over a period of years. Various water leaks, drips, valve problems, all signs of impending end of life. The refer issues, could easily be the freezer getting stuck in the defrost cycle causing some of the issues noted. At 17, you are very lucky. Most average appliances, and, sadly, even water heaters anymore, don't make 10 years. With the cost of repairs (if you can even find an appliance specialist) often relatively high compared to replacement, depending on your market. Used appliances are not worth the effort, especially in a rental in that price range. Regardless, the tenant should have had Renter's insurance to cover his food items. At that rent rate, you should be requiring it.

As to delivery issues, Not My Problem. All of the vendors I use, including appliance repairs, and new appliance wholesalers, plumbers, etc. ALL schedule direct with the tenant, based on the vendor's availability. If the Tenant wants to pay extra to them for special service, that is their prerogative. Tenant's DO, after all, have rights, and in many locales, more rights than you as Owner. It sounds like you were probably legal with your delivery, but in hindsight, was it worth it? Do you WANT to be in a position to be accused of theft or causing damage to personal property, or whatever? We do not provide keys or access to vendors if tenant is not home, unless there are visible flames or water running out the door. They simply must coordinate with the vendor to schedule. And, to be clear, THEY do not have authority to reach out to the vendor EXCEPT to return his call. We will not reimburse or pay for work WE did not authorize.

What was your plan for taking care of the yard and trees? Either it should have clearly been tenant's responsibility via the Rental Agreement, or it is yours, especially tree service and gutter cleaning. You need to ensure YOUR house is taken care of, and already should have preventative maintenance in place for exterior issues.

There certainly are differing opinions here, but I would never, ever, write a two year term for a new tenant...for all the reasons you are dealing with. I have, on rare occasion, offered multi-year with specified step-ups every 12 or18 months, but ONLY to very long term tenants that have paid timely and reasonably maintained their residence, and with full discussion and approval by my Client Property Owner.

OP

Member since 2021 · 44 posts · 8 votes

4y

@Richard F. thank you very much for your perspective as a property manager. Your point on the lease length is well taken. I made a mistake and luckily he pays rent on time.

An immediate negative consequence of kicking him out is that I have to repaint at least three rooms, including a 19-feet tall high ceiling one. Tenants put up three picture walls, each one has 20+ pictures. The paint has been discontinued and touch-up paint will not work.

I think the root cause of the stress over the repair is that I don't trust tenants telling the truth given he lied about a long term lease and actually only looked for a flexible arrangement until he found a house to buy. I don't believe the fridge is bad and yes we require the rental insurance. I also think tenants clearly expect more for this price range, but I am reluctant to fix every tiny thing for a short-term tenant.

Alan DeRossett

Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes

4y

I use the Tenant cloud app so at least we have a digital copy of each trouble ticket they open at a certain point id tell them you will have to raise the rent when the lease is up because of all the trouble tickets opened. Have also sent a plumber to inspect units with tenants telling the plumber what's wrong got a good list and triaged it during the plumber off time so it cost less to do. The Fridge you can lose after the lease is up appliances. I have tenants trained to only call on weekdays now told them we have to raise the rents if emergencies were always on weekends.

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

4y

Quote from @Anne W.:

Like many, many Landlords, you are too easily manipulated and emotionally involved. It would pay to hire a Property Manager and step away from it. A good PM could rein him in quickly.

If it were me, I would send him a letter offering to let him out of his lease in the next 60 days without penalty. I would only require a 14-day notice once he found something else. If he insists on staying, he needs to know that I will not be making any more improvements to the property or responding to unreasonable requests.

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5 Reply

Alan DeRossett

Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes

4y

Quote from @Bjorn Ahlblad:

First. Tell him he should be looking very aggressively starting now, and he is free to leave anytime if he waits till the end of the lease he will get a notice of non-renewal. Then tell him you are tired of his excessive emails and that you will completely ignore any txts or emails that exceed 25 words. Neither of you have time for what is going on currently.

Some of his complaints may have been justified but you have allowed this to go on far too long. All the best!

We point any who phone or text to our Tenant cloud app and ask them to create a trouble ticket first before we can respond. I'm actually automating that with some AI for our Phone system to also redirect them. The app does not allow long letters just state the problem,

Matt Bishop

Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2020 · 161 posts · 88 votes

4y

@Anne Wang, for all the reasons you listed plus hundreds of more benefits, such as your peace of mind, hire a trusted professional property manager.

Matt Bishop

Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2020 · 161 posts · 88 votes

4y

@JD Martin, what would you think of turning the property with the existing tenant to a trusted professional property manager, immediately? Let them decide what to do. Owner should be free of dealing with or even being aware of any of these issues and only enjoying the monthly direct deposit from the manager.

Luka Milicevic

Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

4y

They are a high maintenance tenant. You can put them in a brand new home with everything absolutely perfect and they will find something wrong. You can fix every item on the list and they will just make a new list.

Signing a 2 year lease does not bind the tenant, it binds the landlord.

Tell them they are free to move due to your property not being up to their standards, and you will not hold their deposit hostage for breaking the lease.