Allied National Debt Collection Review.
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2013 · 205 posts · 44 votes
Allied National Debt Collection Review.
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Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y@Duncan Taylor , I've only been here a few months and was wondering the same ;-)
To clarify - I wasn't wondering if it's you , but if negativity is just a characteristic with him
38 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes12y
Collection companies have grunts that work for low pay. Attorneys have low motivation unless they get paid by the hour and light you up in fees. The judgment recovery companies that pay for your filing costs and split 50/50 keeps more money from flowing out of your pocket.
If the tenant is judgment proof then the attorney or collection company will still take it and try once or twice and give up. The judgment company will not even look at it.
- Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
All collection agencies are number mills. They want as many coming into their funnel as they can get, then they simply churn through them. 99% of them are useless and the remaining 1% are mythical much like Bigfoot.
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y
Collection agencies do serve a purpose is to report the debt to the credit bureaus and as for as the BBB they are a joke.
Joe Gore - Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
If you get a recorded judgement it is going to show up on their credit report even if you don't place it with a collection agency.
Also, the items reported by these agencies are the absolute easiest to challenge and get removed because the agency just won't spend the time to push back on a challenge. Time runs out and it gets PERMANENTLY removed.
Remember, to them, it is all a numbers game.
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y
If you used illegal tactics like most consumers do you might get it deleted but the credit bureaus are not stupid if you dispute a judgment all they need to do is check with the court and now the bureaus will flag your file and watch ever dispute that you send in.
Joe Gore - Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Duncan Taylor,
If you used illegal tactics like most consumers do you might get it deleted but the credit bureaus are not stupid if you dispute a judgment all they need to do is check with the court and now the bureaus will flag your file and watch ever dispute that you send in.
Joe GoreFirst, there is absolutely NOTHING illegal about forcing a creditor to comply 100% with the law. As someone who has had to collect judgements, I wish it were not as easy as it is for technical issues to get something removed from a deadbeats credit file. But, the law is the law.
Second, I did not say anything about getting a judgement removed. A collection agency can't place the judgement on the credit file, only their attempt to collect it.
Third, no credit bureau will do the type of research you describe. If you challenge an item they simply notify whoever placed the item on the credit file of the challenge and give them the legally required amount of time to respond. If they don't respond, it gets removed. That is the law. I don't particularly like it, you probably don't either but it is the rules of the game.
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y
So you are saying if you dispute a judgment the bureaus will not verify it with the court which only take, a few minutes by computer. Do you know the dispute process?
Joe Gore - Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
So you are saying if you dispute a judgment the bureaus will not verify it with the court which on take, a few minutes by computer.
Joe GoreNo, credit bureaus do not do that kind of research on consumer report items. The law does not require it and there is a cost for them to do it even if it is just a few minutes by computer. In fact, credit reporting agencies aka bureaus do not do ANY research to validate ANY item on ANY consumer credit report. They are not required to do so and would incur liability if they did. They are very protected by federal law because they DON'T independently investigate anything they just report. If you challenge an item, they simply pass the challenge along to whoever reported it.
Again, you may not like it, but that's the rules.
Judgements usually come into a bureau because of one or more public records reporting services. This is a data feed the bureau pays to receive. If you challenge a public record, the challenge gets referred to whoever reported it. The difference is the companies who scan and aggregate public records are forced to live under different rules and will provide ample proof to push back on any challenge.
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12yI can see you have no clue how the bureaus handle disputes if I miss something, please explain the dispute process.
Joe Gore - Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Duncan Taylor,
I can see you have no clue how the bureaus handle disputes if I miss something, please explain the dispute process.
Joe GoreWell, one thing is for sure, one of us is clueless on this matter.
https://help.equifax.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16
http://www.experian.com/credit-advice/topic-disputing-information.html
http://www.transunion.com/personal-credit/credit-disputes/credit-disputes.page
Notice the diagram on the Equifax page. Notice the wording on all three pages...
Equifax:
"...Please note that if information that you disputed has been verified as accurate by the creditor, it will remain in your credit file, but you can add a statement of explanation to your credit file..."
Experian:
"...The credit reporting company will check with the source of the information and send you an update. ..."
TransUnion (This is the most accurate in terms of what really happens):
"... When TransUnion receives your dispute request, we will contact the data provider or information source. That source has 30 days – in some cases, up to 45 days – to investigate whether the information reported is accurate. If the data provider or source does not respond within the required timeframe, TransUnion will remove the information from your credit report. If the company that provided the information to us verifies the record, it will remain on your credit report...."
Joe, you have been handed one well certified clue. What you do with it is up to you.
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y
My question to you do you know how the dispute process work?
Joe Gore
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
You are correct in that the credit reporting agencies will not go to the courthouse to verify things, but just to the furnisher of information.
I know, I know, I'll be accused of not knowing what I"m writing about. But I can say that I am someone who has years ago taken Equifax and Experian to court and won, so, I have some experience with this.
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12yI think you are very educated. Do you know how the dispute process work if so please give a sample?
- Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
@Michaela G. , I haven't been here very long, but I am starting to notice a pattern. Is he ALWAYS like this or am I getting some kind of special treatment? :)
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
@Duncan Taylor , I've only been here a few months and was wondering the same ;-)
To clarify - I wasn't wondering if it's you , but if negativity is just a characteristic with him
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12yYou are not getting any special treatment here but all I was saying is you do not understand the dispute process, and it is not like you say. Take it from someone has who been on the inside. Sorry I made you upset.
Joe Gore - Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12yI will re frame from debating the issue and let the consumers take over it looks like they know best.
Joe Gore
- Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
@Duncan Taylor , I've only been here a few months and was wondering the same ;-)
To clarify - I wasn't wondering if it's you , but if negativity is just a characteristic with him
We are definitely on the same page. ;)
- Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Duncan Taylor,
You are not getting any special treatment here but all I was saying is you do not understand the dispute process, and it is not like you say. Take it from someone has who been on the inside. Sorry I made you upset.
Joe GoreI don't know you from Adam's house cat, it is impossible for you to upset me.
And, as I said in an earlier post, there is one certain fact, one of us is completely clueless about this.
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to read the posts, including the statements from the bureaus themselves, to decide who let that well certified clue drop to the ground and die of thirst.
- Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes12y
@joe gore. If you have something valuable to share, please please go ahead and share. That is why bigger pockets is here. We share our knowledge, experiences, and insights to grow and continue to move closer to accomplishing our goals. If you know something that would be helpful, then share. You continued comments attempting to show that you are smarter or "have super secret inside knowledge" and then not sharing but just saying others is wrong is really just a waste of everyone's time.
I hope to see some useful posts from you in the future, Joe. I think you have the potential to be a real influential person on here. I say all this, not to make you feel bad or socially awkward but to hopefully push you to live up to your potential. Thank you
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y@Kyle Hipp,
You call me out I want to run and hide or make excuses. Here you go which most consumers will not like what I will say.
A few years back I work for a firm that contractor fraud investigators to the major credit bureaus to help them with their consumer dispute fraud, and I was assigned to one of the three bureaus and by setting on the inside looking out I have seen all types of disputes come in everyday some legit most fraudulent and when I say fraudulent, I mean police reports that was sent in saying the consumer had identity theft, and suddenly the bureaus got behind on verifying the consumer disputes they had to delete because the bureaus fail to verify within 30 days and the consumers starting flooding the bureaus with fraudulent disputes so myself along with other investigators from the other bureaus sit down and say what can we do to close the loop hole, so we approach some law makers about passing a law, so there can be an automatic dispute process, and we were told to put it on paper how it should work, but we were told no guarantee it would pass and become law. So we approach GE and ask them if they could build a software like what we have on paper and a week later GE said it will take us six months to build it. Now we waited over two years to get the FCRA to pass the bill and now another six months for GE to put it together. The software that closed the loop holes is a call E-Oscar and the way it works is let's say Kyle dispute a late pay on his FMC auto loan with Experian once that dispute is sent Experian does not look at that dispute it is automatic send to FMC inbox in E-Oscar and at that time, FMC has four options (1) Do nothing, (2) Delete, (3) Delete by fraud, (4) Update. If FMC used option, 2,3,4 Experian will get a hit and automatic send a letter to the consumer if FMC option on number 1 the bureau will get a D code in 30 days and then automatic send a letter to the consumer. Starting next year any police report that is sent into the bureaus will be faxed to that police agent to verify, and if it is fraudulent, it will consider a class A felony and who will feel the heat the consumer. During my time there I help investigator Tradeline Pros, and a few others and Tradelines Pros was taken down by the feds in Las Vegas, and the owners are facing 41 accounts of consumer credit report fraud plus the last count of over 100 accounts of using police letter's head that was sent to the bureaus plus all those consumer files been flagged for review.
Now for the ones that they think how the dispute process work by going to these credit boards and listen to them telling everyone how to commit fraud to be careful you never know who you are responding to and now when you have to walk in my shoes for many years behind the scenes, please step forward if you can help, or if you need help.
Kyle I hope this answer your question.
Joe Gore
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2013 · 205 posts · 44 votes12y
It seems that as small or not institution sized investor landlords we only have ways to prevent things and no pro action for finacial damages concerning money.
- Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Kyle Hipp,
You call me out I want to run and hide or make excuses. Here you go which most consumers will not like what I will say.
A few years back I work for a firm that contractor fraud investigators to the major credit bureaus to help them with their consumer dispute fraud, and I was assigned to one of the three bureaus and by setting on the inside looking out I have seen all types of disputes come in everyday some legit most fraudulent and when I say fraudulent, I mean police reports that was sent in saying the consumer had identity theft, and suddenly the bureaus got behind on verifying the consumer disputes they had to delete because the bureaus fail to verify within 30 days and the consumers starting flooding the bureaus with fraudulent disputes so myself along with other investigators from the other bureaus sit down and say what can we do to close the loop hole, so we approach some law makers about passing a law, so there can be an automatic dispute process, and we were told to put it on paper how it should work, but we were told no guarantee it would pass and become law. So we approach GE and ask them if they could build a software like what we have on paper and a week later GE said it will take us six months to build it. Now we waited over two years to get the FCRA to pass the bill and now another six months for GE to put it together. The software that closed the loop holes is a call E-Oscar and the way it works is let's say Kyle dispute a late pay on his FMC auto loan with Experian once that dispute is sent Experian does not look at that dispute it is automatic send to FMC inbox in E-Oscar and at that time, FMC has four options (1) Do nothing, (2) Delete, (3) Delete by fraud, (4) Update. If FMC used option, 2,3,4 Experian will get a hit and automatic send a letter to the consumer if FMC option on number 1 the bureau will get a D code in 30 days and then automatic send a letter to the consumer. Starting next year any police report that is sent into the bureaus will be faxed to that police agent to verify, and if it is fraudulent, it will consider a class A felony and who will feel the heat the consumer. During my time there I help investigator Tradeline Pros, and a few others and Tradelines Pros was taken down by the feds in Las Vegas, and the owners are facing 41 accounts of consumer credit report fraud plus the last count of over 100 accounts of using police letter's head that was sent to the bureaus plus all those consumer files been flagged for review.
Now for the ones that they think how the dispute process work by going to these credit boards and listen to them telling everyone how to commit fraud to be careful you never know who you are responding to and now when you have to walk in my shoes for many years behind the scenes, please step forward if you can help, or if you need help.
Kyle I hope this answer your question.
Joe Gore
- The FCRA became law in 1970, what law is it you worked to help pass a few years ago?
- The dispute process you describe above is EXACTLY the way I described. The bureau does not do anything but pass the challenge along to the source.
- Nowhere, not in this thread, not on this site, not even in real life have I said someone should fabricate a police report and send it to a bureau. I challenge you to prove otherwise.
- In fact, I challenge you to show where ANYTHING I have said on this matter is a fraudulent act or an attempt to induce someone to commit fraud.
- Joe, a little friendly advice for you, be careful when you accuse people of committing fraud. Sometimes they might just be kind enough to give you the opportunity to prove your allegation or face the consequences for raising a false allegation.
One last note, I am done with this and engaging with this you, Joe.
To the original starter of this thread, my apologies for my part in this going off topic. I certainly understand your frustration with collection agencies. They are marginally effective at best to anyone trying to collect a valid judgement. They want the low hanging fruit and will not pursue the hard cases.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes12y
@Account Closed
Then you're admitting in your own post that this is something new and thus it does not warrant the type of condescension that you're employing here and in most of your other posts.
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y
@Michaela Graham, @ Duncan Taylor,
I let you 2 carry on sense both of you are very educated at credit bureau disputes. Michaela which bureau did you sue?
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