Septic backup, Home warranty, and amazing tenants

Septic backup, Home warranty, and amazing tenants

Insurance Agent · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 41 votes

Hi all, 

I recently had both of my (amazing) tenants report septic backup through their toilets.  Each side of my duplex is 2/1.  I called the septic company that did the original inspection 18 months ago at the acquisition, and they pumped the tank (only around 60% full) and tried to scope the sewage line, but couldn't since the tank was old and they couldn't reach the line from the lid.  Anyway, I called a plumber, and they got the backup cleaned, found the line, popped an "emergency" diagnosis hole in it so they could scope and found the 4" cast iron line rusted through in the bottom which was causing the periodic blockages.  It's being replaced as we speak from the house to the tank, hopefully under the slab is in better condition.  So, all in all, I'm about $7,500 in the hole with more to come depending on what they find, but my home warranty company has been less than helpful.  No portion of the claim was approved, and they have so much red tape on pre-approving diagnosis, approved corrections, etc.  I think my insurance will cover a lot of the interior damages, but general life cycles of plumbing (and other) systems I believe are on the homeowner.

Has anyone here had any good luck with a warranty company?  Do they all seem as scammy?  I need to understand how to better protect myself from the inevitable breakdown of equipment and systems aside from the routine maintenance they require.

My tenants have been more than patient with this - couldn't ask for better!

Thanks!

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Rental Property Investor · North Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y

@Jordan Thompson

I always suggest to investors, and homeowners to avoid home warranties.

"the typical home warranty costs $450 annually, and only 25% of premiums are paid to homeowners. The company providing the warranty keeps most premiums as revenue and profit."

https://www.ramseysolutions.co...

https://www.zanderins.com/dave...

Every time I hear about property warranties is when something major goes wrong, and the tenants are complaining (rightfully so), and the warranty company is taking their time accessing the situation, and then they tell you there is a deductible, they only will cover so much, you need to use their preferred company, and it will take 3 weeks. All the while, the AC is out, and it is July.

It is much better to just have a reserve fund, and add to it monthly. If you know that something major is going to need replacement in the future, increase the monthly amount you are depositing into your reserve fund. When something goes wrong, you can find the best contractor for the job, who can make the repairs right away, and now your tenants are happy, and you have minimized the time you would have spent speaking to your tenants about the delay or fighting a warranty company.

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  • Rental Property Investor · North Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    @Jordan Thompson

    I always suggest to investors, and homeowners to avoid home warranties.

    "the typical home warranty costs $450 annually, and only 25% of premiums are paid to homeowners. The company providing the warranty keeps most premiums as revenue and profit."

    https://www.ramseysolutions.co...

    https://www.zanderins.com/dave...

    Every time I hear about property warranties is when something major goes wrong, and the tenants are complaining (rightfully so), and the warranty company is taking their time accessing the situation, and then they tell you there is a deductible, they only will cover so much, you need to use their preferred company, and it will take 3 weeks. All the while, the AC is out, and it is July.

    It is much better to just have a reserve fund, and add to it monthly. If you know that something major is going to need replacement in the future, increase the monthly amount you are depositing into your reserve fund. When something goes wrong, you can find the best contractor for the job, who can make the repairs right away, and now your tenants are happy, and you have minimized the time you would have spent speaking to your tenants about the delay or fighting a warranty company.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    @Jordan Thompson I feel your pain I just replaced a septic line and 40 ft of plumbing under the building as the cast was rotting and the pipe had settled and that was after several backups.  Did anyone in the process suggest a cleanout by the tank?  Hopefully you did this. We had another cap installed so they could go in the pipe directly and not have to dig it up each time.

    I wouldn't think a warranty company would cover this but the interior damage I would think it would cover. I would just put money in reserve, call who you want to repair and they will get to it quicker. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jordan Thompson:

    Home warranty companies do not make money by paying out on claims.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
  • Insurance Agent · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 41 votes
    3y

    @Charles Carillo wonderful advice.  I think this is ultimately what I will do long term and what ended up happening this time.  How much do you generally try to keep in reserve for your properties?

    @Colleen F. Yikes! I don't have quite 40 ft thankfully.  They did put in a new bi-directional cleanout so accessing everything is much easier now.  We actually found that the septic is in the front yard, oddly. The driveway and parking lot are in the backyard because the driveway has to climb a hill and the backyard was the only place to put the parking lot, and they can't park on the septic tank.  Unfortunately, the original plumbers installed all the directional T fittings pointing towards the backyard (parking lot side) because that's where septic tanks in our area are usually located; the slab must have been poured and the tank installed afterwards and no one dug back in the correct the fittings so that's an additional problem.  I have a claim filed with insurance and hopefully this can be corrected.

    @Nathan Gesner  Right you are.  And Casinos aren't built on winners.  On a side note, Nathan, I self manage for now but have considered hiring a property manager for the whole portfolio as I acquire more properties.  Are insurance claims and this type of repair something that a property manager would manage?  Obviously I would be responsible for the bill, but what are the boundaries a PM would work in to correct a problem like this?

    The warranty company denied my claim so fast it wasn't even funny.  I'll have the chance to appeal and work with a case manager so hopefully we can get at least some of this reimbursed, but I won't be holding my breath.

    Thanks for the input everyone!

  • Rental Property Investor · North Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jordan Thompson:

    @Charles Carillo wonderful advice.  I think this is ultimately what I will do long term and what ended up happening this time.  How much do you generally try to keep in reserve for your properties?

    It depends on the age, and condition of your properties. The key is to add to it every month. Also, identify any major repairs that may need to be done in the next say 5 years, and make sure you are working towards building a reserve to cover them while also having a reserve for the unexpected. It could be a set percentage of the rent you collect is added to the reserve monthly.

  • Insurance Agent · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 41 votes
    3y

    That makes sense.  That was my goal, actually.  My wife and I purchased the property 18 months ago, and both sides have been rehabbed, new tenants placed and things were going remarkably well until this.  I had only been able to save about 1800 or so just for this property after the rehabs but this has been a great learning experience, albeit painful.

    I appreciate the advice

  • Travis TimmonsPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Even if the work or claim is approved, it's a hassle. For example, had a neighbor with a home warranty, AC went out (in Houston), needed to be replaced, and it was covered under the warranty. It took them about 2 months to get to the job (and there was zero sense of urgency). 

    He ended up finding another vendor and paying for the work himself (immediately/ASAP). Coming out of pocket for a new AC unit in Houston is cheaper than the divorce that would have ensued had he made his wife and kids live through 2 months of Houston summer without AC. 

    Who knows if that is the norm, but it seems like a waste of time from my experience. 

  • Insurance Agent · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 41 votes
    3y

    Oh wow... it seems like this sort of business practice should be regulated to some degree.  I know the insurance industry is highly governed and regulated, but these warranty companies (home and vehicle) like to fly under the radar.

    I think this will be the last time I ever have a home warranty unless it's an accommodation from a purchase like this one originally was.

  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    They are in business to make money, NOT pay out claims.

    They deliberately have red tape and delays in the hopes that an owner will make a mistake and invalidate their claim - so, no payout.

    Had a client with a home warranty and hot water heater went out. Owner's warranty company stated soonest they could send someone was 7-10 days - try telling a tenant no hot water for that long! Owner ended up paying out of pocket and claim was denied because warranty company didn't inspect first.

    Logical Property Management4.9454 Reviews
  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y

    Check your local and state exultations. In MN when I sold a cabin in septic I had to have it inspected pre-sale. That inspector had to guarantee the septic would work for 3 or 5 years. So they scour the system for problems as they’re on the hook for any repairs. 

    It was required by the county and closing included the signed off documentation. 

    This is on a property I sold 4 years ago but was mentioned when I considered selling it 5-10 years earlier. So it was a long existing law. Hopefully your property was in just such an area. 

  • Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    I know I'm an oddball. I would never trust a home warranty company. I try to be proactive and I'm intimately familiar with each of my properties. You're lucky its not the drain field, which is usually the case. But even then, rather than hassling with insurance, plumbers, and contractors, I just go to home depot and rent an excavator and start ripping stuff out. It's not rocket science. I'd have the job done for pennies and in less time it takes arguing with everyone.  Yup, I'm an oddball.

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