Problems with Airbnb Subletting
San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 2 posts · 0 votes
I am a local landlord in SF, and have the problem that sometimes I find my tenants are subletting their unit through airbnb and VRBO.
I'm wondering what people's current solutions are? It's a huge pain to check those sites manually, but I want to stop my tenants from doing this. It's a nuisance to my long-time tenants, and furthermore I don't like not knowing who my tenants are.
If they are not damaging the property I don't see why you would care if they are using airbnb to help make ends meet.
For those who are saying evict the current renters and do the airbnb yourself - I think there are more humane and profitable ways to make money.
I know this isn't an ethics forum but I think good karma goes a long way. I hope you find a solution.
Do you have a no sub leasing clause in your lease?
Yes, and I will escalate to involving a lawyer if need be. I just would like to stop the issue before it gets that far if possible.
While this issue has not arisen we have had numerous other issues. I handle it by putting it in the lease.
If it is a big problem, than I would put in the lease that anyone caught subleasing has a X fine (ex. $1,000). I than when would have the tenant initial underneath this line. That way they are very aware of the epanlty.
Short term rentals, like what your tenants are engaging in on AirBnB, violate SF city hotel laws. Because of this, you can do a just cause eviction.
Before you start on a potentially costly eviction, you should send your tenants a letter asking them to stop with a copy of the listing you found on airBnB/VRBO.
If they don't stop the subletting on airBnB, then it would be time to have your attorney draft a 3 Day Notice to Quit (Illegal Use).
Evict them and put it on VRBO yourself. Do the math and all the due diligence first, though.
It's going to cost you about $45k to evict your tenant.
According to a recent article in the SF Gate,
"To avoid the expense and unpredictability of a jury trial for eviction, Lam said he paid the tenant $45,000 to move out."
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-10-17/why-new-york-hates-airbnb
another one...
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/18/new-york-attorney-general-says-most-airbnb-rentals-in-nyc-violat/
If they are not damaging the property I don't see why you would care if they are using airbnb to help make ends meet.
For those who are saying evict the current renters and do the airbnb yourself - I think there are more humane and profitable ways to make money.
I know this isn't an ethics forum but I think good karma goes a long way. I hope you find a solution.
If they are not damaging the property I don't see why you would care if they are using airbnb to help make ends meet.
For those who are saying evict the current renters and do the airbnb yourself - I think there are more humane and profitable ways to make money.
I know this isn't an ethics forum but I think good karma goes a long way. I hope you find a solution.
There are lots of issues here:
If they are not damaging the property I don't see why you would care if they are using airbnb to help make ends meet.
For those who are saying evict the current renters and do the airbnb yourself - I think there are more humane and profitable ways to make money.
I know this isn't an ethics forum but I think good karma goes a long way. I hope you find a solution.
There are lots of issues here:
If the tenant is paying their rent on time and are not damaging the property who cares if they are having Aribnb guests.
I stay with friends and family or do Airbnb when I travel international and don't think there is any difference between having guests who don't pay you and having guests who pay to stay in your house.
Would you care if your tenant had guests stay with them on regular basis? Why is it different if the guests are paying your tenant to stay? and if your tenant is local, he is helping the local economy by getting paid by out of townees.
Also, to get Aribnb guests, you must take care of your place and keep your place very clean and presentable. I'd rather have tenants who keep my property clean and pay their rent on time than tenants who destroy the place and don't pay rent.
As a property owner, I don't need to know who exactly is staying in my rentals, since I don't require them to notify me when they have guests visiting and as to getting most cash flow, I know a guy who makes 3 times more doing Airbnb than if he leased out the place. His apartment could rent for $1100 a month and he charges $120 a night on Aribnb and requires a minimum of 3 nights and he is booked out a few weeks.
There are a few issues and misconceptions here.
The vast majority of AirBNB in 2015 are whole houses/apartments, and not "guests". AirBNB is simply a more successful version of VRBO , HomeAway etc.
I've stayed at plenty of AirBNB places and will continue to do so. The issue has to do with units that are violating contracts or sublets. Do other tenants in a building want comers and goers at all times of day and night? Because that's EXACTLY what happens. Go to Brooklyn, ask any of the tenants how they feel about it in their building, and they'll tell you it SUCKS. No one signed up to live in a hotel.
Family/Friends and AirBNB are not the same thing. Do you really want your tenant, whom you've screened, to have a constant turnover of new people [who he doesn't know?] in your property, when he's not there? If that's ok with you, then go for it. A lot of landlords don't like it though, and that's where the problem is. (Also, AirBNB verifications are a joke. There's no background check on people checking in to YOUR apartment, and creating new profiles is trivial)
To recap: AirBNB is fine, as long as it's ok in your lease. I guarantee, though, that it's not ok within the leases most people sign.
Most cities have a law in their zoning code that prohibits rental periods of less than 30 days.
That doesn't apply to guests, since a guest has no rental agreement.
To me, it's a classic economic issue, the full utilization of assets. When there is a vacancy of any sort, it's not good for anyone.
This new technology makes it easy to eliminate these vacancies.
Enforcing the zoning laws will not eliminate illegal short term rentals (STRs). It's very similar to the prohibition of alcohol. When there is strong demand, supply will be created, legal or not.
Commercial and larger operators of STRs will be happy to pay the hotel tax. For occasional landlords, it's not worth the hassle. They will avoid licensing and taxation, so don't bother.
Deal with complaints as they arise, because there aren't many. Short term tenants can enter a building very quietly if they are required to. Once they are inside, they are likely to be just as quiet as any other tenant.
Summit County, Colorado (birthplace of VRBO) is a good place to study the issues. 75% of the housing stock is not occupied by permanent residents. The internet handles a large and growing percentage of STRs, and no hotel tax is paid. Hotels are not complaining. Permanent residents are not complaining.
The efficient utilization of these assets can prevent the construction of large hotels, which are even more inefficient in the off season, and provide a less interesting and more expensive experience for the traveler.
As Azita said, STRs are likely to have better maintenance inside and out.
I actually agree with you. OWNERS should be able to do what ever they want. The issues comes with renters subleasing to people who have not been vetted. You can call them "guests" but they basically turn your rental into a transient hotel.
Huge difference between you doing it as the owner of the property vs if you're the tenant. Agree?
I actually agree with you. OWNERS should be able to do what ever they want. The issues comes with renters subleasing to people who have not been vetted. You can call them "guests" but they basically turn your rental into a transient hotel.
Huge difference between you doing it as the owner of the property vs if you're the tenant. Agree?
I agree. We use Airbnb to rent out our spare bedroom and make some extra cash. I think it's a great tool for property owners. However, the thing you have to remember is that when more people are using your property, there will be more wear and tear. The vast majority of our guests have been incredibly respectful and courteous, but we have had a couple that have caused some minor damage. For example, dog chewing on door frame and deck, husband tried to change oil without asking us and spilled all over the driveway, etc. It can add up over time, and that extra wear and tear only adds insult to the injury considering they were never supposed to sublet in the first place.
I actually agree with you. OWNERS should be able to do what ever they want. The issues comes with renters subleasing to people who have not been vetted. You can call them "guests" but they basically turn your rental into a transient hotel.
Huge difference between you doing it as the owner of the property vs if you're the tenant. Agree?
The main difference is that the owner has not given his permission for the subleasing. Interestingly, the new law in San Francisco requires that the Airbnb host must be a "permanent" resident of San Francisco. What is that supposed to accomplish?
Interestingly, the only person in this thread that is anti-Airbnb is the person who has created a business that profits from catching people using Airbnb.
Hi James,
I love anonymous people on forums who's first post is always to cause trouble or promote a product but I will you humor you anyway. If I had to guess one of the management companies that uses our software may have sent you a love note recently.
I love AirBNB as a user. I've used it countless times and saved thousands of dollars by staying in apartments off the beaten track as opposed to hotels. And you're right, as a user, I don't care about the legal status of the apartment, as long as it's clean, safe, and has all the amenities it claims it has.
But if I own a building, and all of my tenants have no sublet clauses in their leases, then I don't want them subletting. I don't want them turning my building into a flophouse. If I wanted to run a hotel I would open a Hilton or something.
A lease is a contract. That's it. Two parties entered into an agreement, and one party wants to make sure the other party sticks to it. There's no other issue here.
Let's not even get started with rent control/rent stabilized apartments in AirBNB, which is basically profiteering from a form of subsidized housing.
Hi guys. This seems like a pretty heated discussion.
I actually had the same problem as Ariel. The main problem for me was tenants putting other tenants at risk by letting strangers into the complex. I've had my tenants complain about feeling unsafe with strangers coming in/out with suitcases all the time and making a lot of noise.
-David
I am a little amazed at some of the flippant responses to this post. May I remind everyone of two words: liability and insurance. Forget "so long as the tenant is present, they can do airbnb." As the homeowner YOUR butt is on the line if anything happens. Be clear about this.
So, class, please respond YES or NO to the following questions. Then let common sense be your guide. Begin!
1) Does your homeowner's insurance policy cover your tenant running a hotel business?
2) Does your homeowner's insurance cover injury or accidents that may befall or be caused by an airbnb guest?
3) Does your tenant's renter's insurance reflect that they are running a hotel out of their apartment?
4) Are your tenant's house keys of a type that cannot legally be duplicated so that the number of keys is always controlled?
5) If your tenant loses a controlled key or does not have them, do you or your tenant change the locks after each guest has left and document it?
6) Are you prepared to be sued or named in a criminal suit if your tenant in some way wrongs - or is accused to doing wrong - to an airbnb guest?
7) Are you prepared to be sued by your tenant or named in a criminal suit if an airbnb guest harms or commits any crime against your tenant or his apartment?
8) Is the building in a city where a two-family house cannot be rented out to more than two tenants? If yes, go to question 9. Otherwise, skip to question 11.
9) Have you sat down with an attorney to determine the exact number of days airbnb guests can occupy the premises each month before the building legally is deemed a commercial building, most likely in violation of the zoning laws?
10) Have you spoken to your accountant about your ability to pay taxes on a commercial building or pay municipal fines for running an illegal one?
11) Are you DOCUMENTING that your tenant is present in the unit when airbnb guests are there? If not, it's illegal in many cities.
12) Are you prepared to EVICT an airbnb guest should it become necessary?
13) Do you verify that each airbnb tenant has a legal residence in a country in which they can be reached for a civil or criminal suit if needed?
Did you answer NO to more than one of these questions? I know you did. Cool your jets on this airbnb thing.
I'd like to try and answer the OP's original question, not engage in an ideological discussion of the merits of airBNB....
Set up google alerts for your property addresses. I've never done this before, but it looks like you will get a notification email anytime your keywords show up in a google search. Here is the link: