(RANT) Section 8 is not Guaranteed!
Nathan FisherBusiness Member
Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2020 · 305 posts · 261 votes
Aligned Properties Group4.292 Reviews
(RANT) Section 8 is not Guaranteed!
Most Popular Reply
Michael SmytheBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votesFollow very few threads on BP, but this one qualifies!
Plan to copy and paste to all the newbies that are misled but by fraud guru's.
Here's our contribution, which may only apply to Metro Detroit market:
1) S8 tenants pretend, or are idiots, that can't fill out their own S8 paperwork for FREE rent!
2) Same S8 tenants don't understand their voucher includes utilities and most rental ad amounts do NOT include utilities. So, they waste your time arguing that their voucher qualifies them for a property when it does NOT.
3) S8 caseworkers tell applicants NOT to pay a deposit or holding fee until property passes inspection - which can often take 2+ weeks to schedule. Timeline they expect you to keep the property off the market for them is even longer when you have to make the repairs the S8 inspectors want. They rarely pass a property on initial inspection because they want to be paid for another inspection.
4) They can't come up with security deposit.
5) S8 offices are using tech from the 1990's! One in Metro Detroit just closed that had a single Comcast email address for THEIR ENTIRE STAFF! They constantly "lost" emailed documents, dragging out the approval process. Trying to get rent increases approved was even worse!
6) Many S8 tenants eventually stop paying their portion of the rent and/or utilities. This often forces a landlord to put utilities in their name to protect their property (think winter, no heat, frozen pipes). Taking any legal action against the tenant for this leads to payment abatements by the housing agencies. So, no accountability for these tenants.
7) Around 2020, all S8 inspections in Michigan stopped making tenants accountable for damages they obviously caused. Now landlord is expected to make ALL inspection repairs and try to collect from tenant later. If you don't payments are abated. How is a landlord supposed to collect from a S8 tenant with little to no income?
---How is this holding tenants accountable that are getting FREE rent from US taxpayers?
S8 SCAMS
1) Anyone that claims there's a shortage of S8 applicants for available funds is lying or misinformed. What tenant wouldn't want free rent? All of Metro Detroit's S8 providers have closed waiting lists they open for a couple of weeks every 2-3 years.
2) Anyone claiming there's a shortage of S8 rentals, doesn't understand the market dynamics. In Metro Detroit there's a shortage of S8 rentals because:
---Many owners are NOT willing to deal with the program paperwork headaches & tenants (why do you think many pro-tenant factions want to make it illegal for landlords to discriminate about source of income/S8?)
---Many owners don't want to fix up their properties to pass S8 inspections.
---Many owners don't want to lower their rents to S8 limits.
3) S8 Rents are higher than Market Rents: Newbie investors that don't know all the facts are often getting screwed by crooks. Crooks bribe an S8 tenant to live in a Class D property they bribed an S8 inspector to pass. Market rent on this property would be FAR below S8 limits. Then they sell the turn-key rental to an unsuspecting newbie as "guaranteed rent" at an inflated price. A few months later, tenant calls S8 for an emergency inspection and the newbie investor gets a long & expensive list of needed repairs to avoid rent abatement. Their great investment crashes and burns.
---Even if tenant stays for 12 months of the lease, they will not renew. It will be almost impossible for landlord to find another S8 tenant willing to rent in the bad neighborhood the property is in.
---Tenants are also allowed to break their S8 lease if their home is broken into and they fear for their safety. Again, good luck finding a replacement S8 tenant for a property in a bad neighborhood!
S8 SCREENING ADVICE
Screen S8 applicants like any other applicants, but also do a surprise inspection of their current home. How it looks is how yours will look in the near future.
Logical Property Management4.9446 Reviews
7 Replies
- Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
Yep, I have 3 S8 tenants in Detroit. Overall I like the program but agree people have too high of expectations and think it's a magical tool that solves every problem.
My favorite is when the annual inspection comes through with such detailed line items like "fix door".
Literally doesn't tell you what needs to be fixed, what door, etc. It's like a friggin guessing game.
I'm seeing way too many people wanting to JUST do Section 8 thinking it somehow de-risks their investment.
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
We've all known this. No shocks here. I wouldn't do S8 for anything.
- Investor · Member since 2020 · 337 posts · 213 votes2y
The issue is there are too many of these “gurus” on social media that are preaching S8 to everyone and how great it is. Yes, it’s great when they are on a 100% voucher but majority of the time they are on 70%. I have 1 tenant on S8 and they’ve been great besides the fact the home is dirty and they live like a hoarder.
@Nathan Fisher luckily in Cleveland there are 2 S8 programs, CMHA and PHA. PHA is very easy to work with, so may want to give them a try.
- 2yMichael SmytheBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Follow very few threads on BP, but this one qualifies!
Plan to copy and paste to all the newbies that are misled but by fraud guru's.
Here's our contribution, which may only apply to Metro Detroit market:
1) S8 tenants pretend, or are idiots, that can't fill out their own S8 paperwork for FREE rent!
2) Same S8 tenants don't understand their voucher includes utilities and most rental ad amounts do NOT include utilities. So, they waste your time arguing that their voucher qualifies them for a property when it does NOT.
3) S8 caseworkers tell applicants NOT to pay a deposit or holding fee until property passes inspection - which can often take 2+ weeks to schedule. Timeline they expect you to keep the property off the market for them is even longer when you have to make the repairs the S8 inspectors want. They rarely pass a property on initial inspection because they want to be paid for another inspection.
4) They can't come up with security deposit.
5) S8 offices are using tech from the 1990's! One in Metro Detroit just closed that had a single Comcast email address for THEIR ENTIRE STAFF! They constantly "lost" emailed documents, dragging out the approval process. Trying to get rent increases approved was even worse!6) Many S8 tenants eventually stop paying their portion of the rent and/or utilities. This often forces a landlord to put utilities in their name to protect their property (think winter, no heat, frozen pipes). Taking any legal action against the tenant for this leads to payment abatements by the housing agencies. So, no accountability for these tenants.
7) Around 2020, all S8 inspections in Michigan stopped making tenants accountable for damages they obviously caused. Now landlord is expected to make ALL inspection repairs and try to collect from tenant later. If you don't payments are abated. How is a landlord supposed to collect from a S8 tenant with little to no income?
---How is this holding tenants accountable that are getting FREE rent from US taxpayers?S8 SCAMS
1) Anyone that claims there's a shortage of S8 applicants for available funds is lying or misinformed. What tenant wouldn't want free rent? All of Metro Detroit's S8 providers have closed waiting lists they open for a couple of weeks every 2-3 years.2) Anyone claiming there's a shortage of S8 rentals, doesn't understand the market dynamics. In Metro Detroit there's a shortage of S8 rentals because:
---Many owners are NOT willing to deal with the program paperwork headaches & tenants (why do you think many pro-tenant factions want to make it illegal for landlords to discriminate about source of income/S8?)
---Many owners don't want to fix up their properties to pass S8 inspections.
---Many owners don't want to lower their rents to S8 limits.3) S8 Rents are higher than Market Rents: Newbie investors that don't know all the facts are often getting screwed by crooks. Crooks bribe an S8 tenant to live in a Class D property they bribed an S8 inspector to pass. Market rent on this property would be FAR below S8 limits. Then they sell the turn-key rental to an unsuspecting newbie as "guaranteed rent" at an inflated price. A few months later, tenant calls S8 for an emergency inspection and the newbie investor gets a long & expensive list of needed repairs to avoid rent abatement. Their great investment crashes and burns.
---Even if tenant stays for 12 months of the lease, they will not renew. It will be almost impossible for landlord to find another S8 tenant willing to rent in the bad neighborhood the property is in.
---Tenants are also allowed to break their S8 lease if their home is broken into and they fear for their safety. Again, good luck finding a replacement S8 tenant for a property in a bad neighborhood!S8 SCREENING ADVICE
Screen S8 applicants like any other applicants, but also do a surprise inspection of their current home. How it looks is how yours will look in the near future.Logical Property Management4.9446 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @Nathan Fisher:
I have to vent. Section 8 is not GUARANTEED MONEY. IT is not a cure all Panacea. It does not always pay more than market rent.1. Tenants pay 30% of their adjusted income. They still have a monthly payment. They often don't pay it, and since Section 8 pays a portion, you have to wait til next month to place a 3 day. That percentage often changes
2. Tenants can lose their voucher. I am evicting a tenant who lost their voucher
3. The inspection letters often are sent to the tenant, the inspectors don't arrive or cancel appointments, and they fail properties
4. I have 3 properties I can't get paperwork for, and 2 other's that I'm still waiting on a decision 30 days +
Section 8 sounds so great. The organizations that run them, completely ruin it.
Yea dawg, I've been telling people this on my show for like 7+ years lol.
- Member since 2023 · 10 posts · 4 votes2y
Yes, it is frustrating sometimes dealing with them, they're not always the most transparent or forthcoming to the voucher holders how the vouchers actually work either. I can't tell you how many people call saying they have a 2 bedroom voucher but they really just have a 1, or they conflate the contract rent with the payment standard. Another big problem we encounter more often than not is when they're swearing on Jesus Mary Joseph and everyone else they are deposit ready, then having some reason why they can't pay the deposit; or trying to do half of it now and of course the other half never materializes. The best is when they move in and immediately begin making maintenance demands for things they broke themselves, or because some man they lied about not being on the lease is living there and broke it, or one of their endless supply of children broke it and it's like you still owe like a grand from your deposit maybe don't take such a tone when you fuss over maintenance issues you created in the first place - but God forbid you withhold whatever pithy deposit they did manage to cough up for damages because they go full throttle Jerry Springer guest in 2.2 seconds.
- Member since 2023 · 10 posts · 4 votes2y
Quote from @Travis Biziorek:
Yep, I have 3 S8 tenants in Detroit. Overall I like the program but agree people have too high of expectations and think it's a magical tool that solves every problem.
My favorite is when the annual inspection comes through with such detailed line items like "fix door".
Literally doesn't tell you what needs to be fixed, what door, etc. It's like a friggin guessing game.
I'm seeing way too many people wanting to JUST do Section 8 thinking it somehow de-risks their investment.
I have 45 S8 tenants :( Trade places with me. It's the nightmare you described ad infinitum.
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