Investor · Ogden, UT · Member since 2014 · 98 posts · 10 votes
Hi,
So, I'm going to be getting a place where I live in one unit and the other(s) out. I obviously have little to no issues working on my unit, but how about the others?
What if I want to do a major re-haul on their one and only bathroom and it will take more than a day? What do you guys do?
I personally wouldn't do it if its truly major rehab.
You could damage their personal possessions with dust, spray, debris etc...
They might not have a functional living space and you are responsible.
Also, based on my experience, unless its super simple, "shouldn't take more than a day" typically turns into 2,3,4,5 days depending on the age of the home, and sometimes a part just isn't available at the home depot and supply houses are closed on weekends and online expedited order says 48 to 72 hours and you go..."well..."
There is actually another post on this question in the past day or two. I cannot find it a this moment but I would definitely look for it. It was filled with some great information.
You don't rehab units with tenants in a unit. You can make a repair, if it takes more than a day, offer to put them up in a motel for that day/night. No repair should take two days. If the unit is not useable, if you can not provide "quiet enjoyment" as required by leasing, you'll need to move them out. You could be responsible for moving them if you failed to provide a safe, sanitary, healthy living space as you had promised by leasing. If it's not habitable you can't lease it. If they agree to move out in a motel for 3 weeks, that's fine, but they don't have to agree. Repairs need to be made in a timely manner, what that is will vary and how you get along with the tenant and what can be agreed is the issue. :)
In my experience it will depend on the tenant. As a matter of fact I just sent a tenant a text today. She moved in last September to a single family home that I had just renovated. The house was built in 1875 and has a stone foundation.The cistern was removed and the walls were jagged at those spots. I patched them during the renovation, however the raised floor of the cistern was covered with OSB and on top of that was the washer and dryer. It was functional however I can improve it. I asked the tenant last night if I could stop over next wednesday to pour cement to make it nice. I also explained that this would mean that she would be without a washer and dryer until friday morning. She thanked me for the nice surprise and we are set to go.
In another case, similiar to yours. A 3 bedroom upper unit of a duplex had a dated bathroom past its functional life. The bathroom was carved into a spot that left a hallway to nowhere and was a part of the main enterance. This project involved moving the plumbing, updating the electrical, demo to the studs and reframing to make better use of the space. We also brough the laundry up to that level. This would give them a useful entryway, In unit laundry and a great bathroom space. It was 3 guys living in the unit. We actually had a vacant apartment a couple miles away that we offered for themto crash in for the week it would take to complete everything. They were on board and 2 guys did sleep there and another stayed at a friends house. We got everything done in the timeline we proposed and they were pretty happy.
Same thing with a kitchen. This ended up just being a single day project as we had prepared quite well. They were without the kitchen for 10-12 hours (well just the main bank of cabinets, sink and added a dishwasher). If your tenant doesn't want to be bothered and is happy with the way things are then I wouldn't push it but most of the time I have found that you can get a lot of stuff done while a tenant is living there with proper communication. You might consider asking them if they have a vacation planned anytime soon that you could get all the work done while they are gone so they can come back to a nice improvement :)
Typically doing a reno to an already occupied unit in not a good use of your funds.
Why do you say this? I disagree. There are many variables which make it a very good use of funds. Since most of my tenants are long term (over 5 years, some over 10 and two over 20) I will not hesitate to reno when needed instead of waiting for a vacancy, especially when there is a structural need or health risk at hand.
I personally wouldn't do it if its truly major rehab.
You could damage their personal possessions with dust, spray, debris etc...
They might not have a functional living space and you are responsible.
Also, based on my experience, unless its super simple, "shouldn't take more than a day" typically turns into 2,3,4,5 days depending on the age of the home, and sometimes a part just isn't available at the home depot and supply houses are closed on weekends and online expedited order says 48 to 72 hours and you go..."well..."
I recently worked on a renovation for a customer in their primary bath -- the surround was cracked and old and the plumbing needed to be updated. They did have a half bath but the tub/shower was in the primary. (This was an inherited tenant with some deferred maintenance on the house.)
So about a month prior to the work, we let them know that the tub/shower would be unusable for 2-3 days so they could make other arrangements. The end result is that they got a brand new ceramic tile tub surround with new tub/shower faucet.
I don't. For a lot of reasons. But mainly because if it is old enough to rehab it is probably old enough to have lead based paint. Lead based paint, tenants, and remodeling are not a good combination.
It was actually Dawn that had a blog post about her bathroom deal and it made me wonder how she pulled it off (and why). I may be able to inherit some tenants that are long term, that's why I ask. Also, I expect it could be a way to increase rents and keep the same tenants, if you are happy with your tenants.
Or hell, maybe something needs to get done, and I have to do it. Someone said I have to provide a bare minimum, which may mean that I need to pay for a hotel? Where would this be stated? City, state? (Obviously, I'm moral, I mean is there a definition for bare minimum which might be overly sensitive)
So, the tenants were okay with no shower for 3 days?
Sounds like it isn't as bad as I thought. I was also thinking of getting a washer / dryer upstairs to improve the living quarters, this would be major and the tenants upstairs are long term.
It was actually Dawn that had a blog post about her bathroom deal and it made me wonder how she pulled it off (and why). I may be able to inherit some tenants that are long term, that's why I ask. Also, I expect it could be a way to increase rents and keep the same tenants, if you are happy with your tenants.
So, the tenants were okay with no shower for 3 days?
The blog post was actually the first of 2 different tenants where they had their entire shower surround redone. In both cases the tenants were given ample notice (about a month) that the work was being done so they could make other arrangements.
One time when the water heater at my own house went out, I had to shower at my mom's house for a few days. It wasn't a big deal and that was without any advance notice.
Personally, I would NEVER renovate an occupied unit. From an economic standpoint, I am a contractor by trade and occupied units cost way more to work on - I have to cut materials outside and run the stairs to prevent damage to personals inside the unit instead of covering the floors and working in the next room. I have to make the unit safe at minimum at the end of EVERY day, but more like at all times (ever been in a work site, lots of hazards to people that aren't in them every day). Lead-based paint is a HUGE issue in my area as it is mostly older housing stock. This alone is reason enough.
I do make repairs as needed while a unit is occupied. I will recaulk a shower surround that should really be replaced, fix a kitchen cabinet that is probably due for a trip to the dumpster, etc. The unit will eventually be empty and THAT is the appropriate time to do those types of repairs. Cheaper, faster, better, safer...
If you have a good tenant that you want to keep, think outside of the box. Fresh paint, new carpet, replacing flooring, shiny new faucets, replacing light fixtures, etc. go a long way in their eyes, cost very little, and in most cases can be done in a day.
I think your heart is in the right place, but you have to think like a businessman, not a friend. You will save a lot of money and a TON of potential liability by waiting until the tenant moves. They will eventually and that is the time to do an overhaul. In the case of a safety issue (failing electrical comes to mind), then you might have to go with the motel idea. I would only do that as a last resort, even if it was for my very best tenant.