Investor · Plymouth, MA · Member since 2013 · 64 posts · 9 votes
Hello everyone. I have an apartment for rent now, and I have a caller asking me how many adults I'd allow in this apartment (loaded question). He said it was he, his girlfriend, his sister, and his cousin I think. 4 adults.
I don't have to tell you all the reasons why I dislike this idea. However, I was wondering how I'd know if I could say no to this arrangement legally. I know familial status is a protected class, and if this was 2 adults and 2 kids, it's a no brainer what should happen. However, I wasn't sure what I should do here. Are there maximum occupancy allowances mandated at the state level, or municipal level? I tried searching for official statistics but couldn't find anything.
I told the caller that each applicant would have to be on the lease, each would have to qualify with good credit and references, and each would be jointly and severally liable for rent, should 3 of the tenants move out. He seemed fine with that.
People with it all together don't live like that. Write down your requirements and carry on. I doubt they will even show up for a showing. Collect their application fees and screen them against your written criteria. I will assure you that one of the four has serious issues that will disqualify them if they get to the point of applying.
Massachusetts doesn't legally allow me to collect anything for application fees as far as I can interpret the laws.
Your first sentence sums up my thoughts about this situation pretty well. Instead of getting 2 people who are financially well suited to live here, I'd be getting 4 adults who are unable to get their own apartment. Also my water bills would surely suffer, although they would be much worse with 2 adults living with 2 teenage girls!
Also, I would expect that not everyone will be able to provide good landlord references (or any references at all), and this is on my written criteria.
If they are applying as a group, then I can disqualify the group based on one person's disqualifications?
We require 3x rent and all the applicants to pass background and credit checks. We don't require an application fee. Our software does allow the tenants to pay for their own checks, and we do require the tenants to cover this fee.
It seems sentence 2 and 3 contradict each other, no? Isn't the "application fee" and the tenant paying for his own check sort of the same thing?
I've used the BP link for Smart Move in the past, and I prefer to use it in the future. However, my state doesn't allow me to collect anything from a tenant beyond first last and security. It doesn't explicitly say anything about applicants, but I've been very careful about what I collect as Massachusetts is very tenant friendly.
If they do fill out your application, find some other reason to decline their app. Four people in two bedrooms is within acceptable limits. Especially if they are related.
So them being related applies to them being a "family" under a protected class? A cousin and a sister of a guy and his girlfriend is considered protected?
If they are good applicants, then they are good applicants. I haven't met any of them yet, but I am very apprehensive based on the telephone conversation.
FYI, I would check the General Laws specifically but here it is.... NOT LEGAL ADVICE, in fact I was never here. :)
"Maximum Pre-payments
While a tenant may have a pet, or some interest such as portrait painting, which may potentially harm the apartment, you are prohibited from the collecting as advance payments more than the first and last month’s rent, one month’s security deposit, and the cost of installing a new lock (M.G.L. c. 186 § 15B).
It is an unfair or deceptive practice for you to demand that a tenant prepay rent when a tenant is not obligated to and did not, in fact, occupy the dwelling, unless otherwise agreed to in writing by both parties (940 CMR § 3.17 (6)(d)).
A violation of the Consumer Protection Statute c.93A, for committing an unfair or deceptive act against a tenant exposes you to up to treble damages, costs and payment of the tenant’s attorney’s fees."
I would be interest in an attorney interpurtitation of this line "unless otherwise agreed to in writing by both parties"
You can (and should) require that all those who will live in the home who are over the age of 18 will have to sign the lease and fill out an application. And you can explain that this means that each person is responsible for the rent even if one or more of the other individuals move out. Someone else may be able to chime in about what this means for how you review the applications. It would seem kind of extreme to expect that each person has the financial status to be able to afford the entire rent on their own. But they need to know that this is a legal agreement that all parties have to sign.
Maybe the reason they want to live like this is that they DO have it together. There are many people who think it is dumb to spend $800/m on a 1 bedroom apartment when they can split $1000/m 4 ways on a two bedroom. People used to live like this when they were trying to save money. I would give them a chance over section 8 any day.
Trevor, that might be an optimist's point of view. I think the case you present might be more rare than the alternative. Also in Massachusetts, I don't have the option to deny a Section 8 tenant because they hold a Section 8 voucher. I have to process them just as any other tenant.
In my case, I did not have to find out what their references were like, as they were looking for a May 1 move-in date and I am seeking April 1. They decided not to apply. Of course they would have known the move-in date had they bothered to read my ad. They also asked me 3 or 4 questions that were answered in my ad. Only the caller and his sister spoke any English, the other two adults did not understand my questions at all.
I would be interest in an attorney interpurtitation of this line "unless otherwise agreed to in writing by both parties"
Not an attorney, so not the legal advice you were hoping for but here goes.
Two possible examples that might apply. First example is where you have a binder to hold a unit for an applicant, but applicant backs out without moving in; the binder agreement could be written in such a way that you would get to keep some or all of the binder money. Second example would be if you have a lease term in effect and the tenant wants to terminate the lease prematurely; it is common to have a two month rent fee for early termination so that could be collected and the tenant would no longer be in the unit.
Of course they would have known the move-in date had they bothered to read my ad. They also asked me 3 or 4 questions that were answered in my ad. Only the caller and his sister spoke any English, the other two adults did not understand my questions at all.
This is exactly why I don't ever give out my phone number :)
If somebody cannot read an ad that I spent a lot of time writing, I don't have any interest in wasting more of my time on them.
I also only allow 1 adult occupant per bedroom with the exception of allowing a couple to rent a 1 BR unit. I wouldn't rent a 2 BR to two couples (or even a couple and a friend), let alone 4 related adults.
It all boils down to the type of rental you have and what type of tenants it will attract. I take smaller returns in exchange for less hassle but don't have problems with poor tenant selection. I can't tell you how happy I was to sell my SFR that I learned all of these lessons the hard way on!
I guess polish inmigrants were fluent english speakers when they arrived here and didn't have any problems comunicating with a landlord while trying to find a place to live.
two bedrooms and 4 adults sounds better than 1 adult and 3 bedrooms. check there references. I wouldn't be surprised that they are good applications and possibly long term tenants.
Your first impression prior to receiving an application usually will determine what type of tenant you can expect.
I have seen several apartments in the area who have rules posted online that state a maximum number of adults per unit (based on bedrooms) and then a maximum number of occupants over 12 months old (this is tricky because infants don't count toward occupants and have to be allowed but the law is unclear as to what age a child should be counted toward the occupant total). What I have seen openly advertised is the number of adults allowed is usually 1 per bedroom except for a one bedroom, which allows 2 adults. My guess is that the apartments do it this way because "adult" is not a protected class according to fair housing. However, familial status is, that's why they allow other occupants who are not adults up to a maximum number of occupants depending on the number of bedrooms. I think I've seen 3 adults and up to 6 or 7 total occupants for a 3 bedroom. I have no idea if what they are doing is legal or not.
So I've considered this situation for my yet to be ready to rent 950 sq ft, 3 bedroom town homes:
If a family has two parents and grandma, plus 4 kids over the age of 1 and infant twins (I am using this example because I have twins), I will have to allow all 9 people in the 3 bedroom unit, unless they are not qualified because of income or background checks or other non-protected reasons.
I am not sure how 4 related adults would be viewed under fair housing. Technically they are a family but it seems fair housing is trying to protect families with children not adults who need to live together because they can't make it on their own.
Probably some good questions to ask fair housing directly and see what they say. .
two bedrooms and 4 adults sounds better than 1 adult and 3 bedrooms. check there references. I wouldn't be surprised that they are good applications and possibly long term tenants.
Your first impression prior to receiving an application usually will determine what type of tenant you can expect.
This doesn't make any sense to me...why would you rather have 4 adults in a 2 bedroom unit than 1 adult in a 3 bedroom unit?
@Rob K. Was that a reference to the Rodney Dangerfield question, that "If a Brother and Sister are married in West Virginia and get divorced in Reno, Nevada are they still Brother and Sister?"