Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I have a problem with tenants not telling me of things that may be wrong and by the time I find out it's become a major issue.
Things like a roof leak that finally makes the sheetrock come down.
I had one tenant that never cut his grass and he was always out of town. Suddenly he called me and said that he just came from the hospital and that he's covered in flea bites and he has a rat infestation in the house. Turned out there was a hole that rats were able to come in and nest. I didn't know and he was in and out of the house, saw rat droppings some time, but never did or said anything. By the time he finally notified me they must have been breeding and breeding. I immediately had it treated and the holes closed.
Or a plumbing leak under the kitchen sink that goes so long that it destroys the floor and floor joist underneath and makes the whole kitchen cabinet moldy
How do you deal with that? I obviously won't go through their place every day or month to make sure that there's nothing wrong. And they may be things that only a person living in the unit can notice.
What is my liability when I don't know about this and suddenly the tenant makes noise about me being a terrible landlord because I don't fix things (that I didn't know about until that moment)
Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y
Yes, they can, and no, it's not reasonable. Whether they can win in court is another issue. But you are stuck with the problem, reasonable or not.
Managing yourself from out of state - that's a tough one.
Writing something into the lease won't make people comply. I have lots of stuff written in that people can't do and they still do it. Moving other people in, adding pets, keeping trampolines, etc. So enforcement is the issue, and for that you need to depend on inspections, somehow. Do you have a handyman you pay occasionally? Hire him twice a year to inspect. He should do a good job, he'll be motivated to find something wrong.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
The reason I mention the not cutting of grass for the guy with the rat problem - the house is sitting about 30' high above the street, on top of a huge retaining wall. It's a corner lot and nobody else saw the yard. So, his grass was head high and a great playground for rats and mice that way. Finding a way into the house was an extension to them already living in their paradise
Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y
Make a policy of quarterly (or monthly or semi-annual or annual) inspections. If you trust your maintenance guy to look under every sink and behind every toilet, he can do it. Or you can.
Do I do this? No. But I engage with the tenants and go to the buildings regularly. Do I still get blindsided? Occasionally. But not to the extent of rat infestations. However, I have multis, not SFR's.
Real Estate Investor · Gainesville, VA · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 0 votes
12y
Does your lease have anything about your expectations of them - what they are responsible for doing to keep up the house? I don't have a legal background at all but I wonder if this would be considered a violation of the lease and you could give them 30/60 days notice to move.
I certainly wouldn't extend their lease again but I'm sure you're not going to. I always tell tenants I will allow them to renew if they 1) always pay their rent on time and 2) keep the house in great shape.
I agree with Ann. It definitely sounds like routine inspections need to happen with this tenant. I have inspections built into the lease, sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't - it just depends on the tenant I have and how responsible they are.
Well, you're right, I should. But I'm out of state and managing myself.
Isn't there a responsibility by the tenant to inform the landlord of problems? I mean, can they later make claims against the landlord for something that they've never informed him/her about? I don't think that's reasonable.
Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y
Yes, they can, and no, it's not reasonable. Whether they can win in court is another issue. But you are stuck with the problem, reasonable or not.
Managing yourself from out of state - that's a tough one.
Writing something into the lease won't make people comply. I have lots of stuff written in that people can't do and they still do it. Moving other people in, adding pets, keeping trampolines, etc. So enforcement is the issue, and for that you need to depend on inspections, somehow. Do you have a handyman you pay occasionally? Hire him twice a year to inspect. He should do a good job, he'll be motivated to find something wrong.
Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
12y
Is this all in the same property or in different ones? If it's in the same one, I think it's time to have the tenant move so that "you can do repairs" or some other nonsense written into your lease so you can remove him. If its in multiples, I think you need to look at your screening process. At any rate, I think my longer term plan would be to sell the property and buy something closer to home so that you can put eyes on your property or at least hire a property manager type to go take a peek at your property on occasion. Which still may not be perfect as you can read on here the problems with PM's.
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
12y
Michaela I think you have the lower end rentals right from previous topics? I could be wrong but I remember all of discussed lower end houses before.
It sounds like you own in Fulton county or similar but I could be wrong. The type of tenant base there in many areas tenants will not do anything to the property and just complain that you should have known and fixed it.
The only way to find things out is have an inspection monthly to bi-monthly. I would rather pay a trusted handyman a small fee monthly to do inspections and report back then have the roof caving in.............. : ) You come out ahead being pro-active instead of re-active.
If this goes to court the tenant will claim they shouldn't pay rent because of repairs needed and in human living conditions. The judge will ask if the tenant gave notice to you the landlord IN WRITING of the repairs that needed to be performed?? Over 90% of tenants do not do this. The judge will not usually award anything for the tenant not giving notice and will give judgment in your favor.
The judge will also ask the tenant if it is not hospitable and you the tenant are not paying rent WHY have you not moved to a safer area without those conditions. The tenant will say they are working on it which the judge might not give you anything as the landlord in that case and give them a little time a few weeks to get out OR if they tenant hasn't paid for months and say they do not have the money to move the judge might give you a judgment for them mooching on purpose.
It all depends on when your case is heard during the day as the judges get irritable toward the end of the day and who is on the bench.
I am talking just Fulton county GA and my personal experience evicting tenants when I owned a 20 unit apartment complex. My units did not have the level of disrepair your does so I think a judge might interpret you possibly grossly neglecting or mismanaging your property from afar and be more sympathetic to the tenant than usual.
In my cases the tenants were inherited free loaders and talked about small wear and tear items the judge scoffed at or dime size stains on ceilings etc.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Not the same property.
But I think because my rents are much lower than the market, tenants don't want to bother me with 'small' things and don't realize that they turn into big things, even though I've had these discussions with them.
These are in a low income neighborhood, so I don't ever get the 'cream of the crop' of potential tenants and if I were to wait for those, I'd have empty units, vandalized and stripped of everything.
So, it's not because they're really trying to pull one over on me, but because we're on good terms and they know they're getting a good deal and they don't want to make it difficult for me by calling to get something fixed. So, they just live with it until it gets bad and then I'm asking 'why didn't you tell me?' and they say 'I didn't want to bother you'.
But I'm just going through the last scenario with the leaking sink. When I found out a few weeks ago I also learned that this had been going on since they moved in, last July. So, for all I know this already been happening with the previous tenant, who I had to evict.
The tenant told me that a handyman who worked on the tub noticed this and told the tenant to tell me, that this needs to get fixed, but he didn't want to tell me. The handyman never told me, because we have the arrangement that instructions to fix things have to come from me (because some tenants otherwise try to order him to do things that aren't repairs). They didn't want to bother me, so they never said anything.
Anyway, a couple of months ago 1 of the guys collapsed with a heart defect and supposedly during some examinations they said he had a little mold in his lungs. All this I was told a few weeks ago by his partner in the unit and he says that it must come from my house.So, I ask him But if there's mold there has to be some water leak? Is the ceiling leaking anywhere? Is there anything that's green or black? If there's mold we'd see it. How can there be mold? And then he says, well, maybe it's because of this water leak under the sink, that's been going since we moved in?
I immediately had someone fix everything.
Anyway.....we've had several discussions and he said 'it's not your fault. If you don't know about it, there's nothing you can do' and so on. And I hope I'll be ok.
I've immediately tried to find him another place, but he didn't like what I came up with (my rents are pretty low). I told him that I'd give him prorated rent back and will turn his deposit over directly to a new property (just wanting them to leave as quickly as possible and be really accommodating, just in case, but not bending over so far to give him ideas....... But they took their time and supposedly are moving this week.
I think we'll be ok. They'll get their deposit back and I wonder if coming up with something for them to sign to not hold me liable for anything by accepting the deposit back will just make them suspicious and give them ideas.
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
12y
I think most of this can be avoided in the future having a monthly inspection performed.
Who changes out the air filters on the A/C?? If your tenant isn't doing that on a regular basis the dust builds up on the fan motor and burns it out pre-maturely.
There are a lot of preventive maintenance things to do without the tenant telling you about it where spending hundreds will save thousands with your asset over time.
Another one is making sure the tub has the flexible caulk instead of the cheap crap that cracks and water gets in underneath it. The expensive caulk expands and contracts with the weight of the tub preventing leaks unlike the cheap caulk that leaks and harbors bacteria growth.
If a bathroom doesn't have a ceiling exhaust fan but a window for ventilation do not expect the tenant to open that because of being lazy or the weather outside. It makes sense to install an exhaust fan to keep moisture build up and mold growth out.
That are literally a ton of little things you can have done that make a big impact with your property.
I do have a friend who I pay to go by and put up notices or whatever. But I shouldn't have to have inspections done. You'd think tenants would want to get things fixed.
I didn't notice your earlier comment until now. Thank you for the detailed responses.
Well, I have to say that my houses do not have a big level of disrepair, as you say. They're not perfect, I admit. They're +100 year old houses and they're basic. But I have lived in 2 of them myself for 1.5 years and there are a few others I would live in as well.
With that said, I don't really think they can really come after me and win for something that I've had no knowledge of. But it's always nerve-wrecking going through it. You never know how quickly tenants can turn on you on a whim or someone else's whisper into their ear.
