Felons, Do You Rent To Them?

Felons, Do You Rent To Them?

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

Just read a thread where a landlord said that his instruction to his tenant screening company was to automatically disqualify anyone with a felony.

HUD has this guideline in public housing. In some cases it was warranted, in others it wasn't.

I believe there are about 15 million felons. The US has more per capita than any other nation according to a news comment, hard to believe that we have more incarcerations than China.

I have rented to felons, but with additional considerations to circumstances.

Most were women, a few men but most of the men encountered simply had different circumstances.

I'd think the war on drugs has not only failed but has ruined innocent lives as well. I'm not pro-drug, I don't condone illegal drug usage but I do recognize the abuse as an illness. Possession of drugs in certain amounts carries varied levels of illegal actions. I'm not sure that mandatory sentences is the right approach nor appropriate in all cases.

The felons I leased to were usually for drug offenses, possession topped the list. Dealing drugs has different levels, having a certain amount may put one in that category even if they weren't selling.

Besides drug activities, there were people who got tagged for activities by association. A girl waiting in a car for her boyfriend where the boyfriend decided to rob a store, movie type stuff, where she claimed she had no idea he was going to do that.

A wife who was given money just to drop off at the bank for a deposit by her husband not knowing funds were tainted by his fraudulent dealings with someone she didn't know.

Here is what I considered: Age at the time of the incident and the time passed. Type of activity, violent activities were not accepted. Time served told me in some cases how severe the incident was viewed, if they were mandatory minimums that says something. Past record since the incident, a clean record, no further legal troubles or arrests. Other factors weighed more heavily as well, credit, job history, income and personal references.

I admit, one consideration with guys was if I thought I could command any situation with that person, I'm not a little guy, how they carried themselves, attitude, communication skills were thoughts. Sometimes, with anyone, you may have to get things done on your own toughness, that's what a judge told me long ago. I'm not talking about having to get physical as much as commanding the situation, laying down the law and enforcing it. With some men, it can come down to who can intimidate who, rather primal isn't it.

Of those selected I can say that I never had any issues with them more over any non-felon, I can't tag a late payment for example to their past history or some incident ten years ago. I never had any eviction problems with this group or intentional damages either.

Anyway, it's a judgment call I'd say, not an automatic no, it's a "depends" situation with me. I don't believe that some 9 year old must suffer for sins of the father and live in some dump because someone got in trouble at 21 ten years ago.

So, do you consider this group, can you look at such issues fairly and take individual situations into account or d you just not go there? If you do, what do you consider?

I'd like to hear what @Jerry W. has to say, since he is charged to put bad guys away, a tough position to be in and thanks to those like him that keep the public safer. He's a landlord too! :)

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Real Estate Investor · Hampton, VA · Member since 2012 · 562 posts · 109 votes
12y

For me it depends on the crime committed and the time that has passed. As a woman owner who manages my own properties, I will never rent to anyone who has committed a crime against a women or children for my own safety.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Hampton, VA · Member since 2012 · 562 posts · 109 votes
    12y

    For me it depends on the crime committed and the time that has passed. As a woman owner who manages my own properties, I will never rent to anyone who has committed a crime against a women or children for my own safety.

  • Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    12y

    Non violent offenders who reestablish good work history...

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Andrea M.:
    For me it depends on the crime committed and the time that has passed. As a woman owner who manages my own properties, I will never rent to anyone who has committed a crime against a women or children for my own safety.

    And I'd suggest you stick to that! Violent crimes, assault and sex crimes are certainly a serious matter.

    There was a case where a woman fired a gun at her abusive husband as a warning that wasn't even close but in his general direction. Because the hole wasn't in the ceiling she got nailed for attempted murder. I'm not sure I buy that. So assault or similar matters could be weighed.

    Sex crimes are a different matter, it's a life sentence to me, when against a child, well, the violator is to be "to have a yoke placed around their neck and thrown into the sea" so IMO, they shouldn't be out. So, obviously they won't be leasing, or doing anything with me.

    Common sense should prevail. :)

  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    12y
    First, last, security deposit. employment/ cosigner with employment that can be garnished. Easy
  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    I tend to think that we coddle criminals in this country with light punishments, but then the punishment follows them for far too long. For example, my roofer is in his 50's, owns a business with about 30 employees, and has a dozen or more rental houses. When he was 19, he had some type of felony that to this day prevents him from owning a gun. I think that after a cetrtain amount of time, some crimes should come off your record.

    It also supprises me what is a felony and what is a misdemeanor. The guy that used to sand hardwood floors for me was in the paper some months back because he was drunk and shooting his AR-15 into the canal behind his house. On the public records, it lists all of the charges. The felonies are:

    Drunk driving, third offense and assaulting a police officer.

    The misdemeanors are:

    Unlawful use of a motor vehicle, license suspended 2nd offense, reckless use of a firearm, and resisting arrest.

    I think that the misdemeanors he was charged with are worse than the felonies. Shooting an AR-15 in a neighborhood is a misdemeanor?

    Having said all of that, I have some slim pickings for applicants in my Class C rentals. I'm more concerned with rental history and employment. My application asks if they are a convicted felon. If they are honest and the crime was long ago, I will usually rent to them. I have a tenant now who was in a violent fight 20 years ago and another guy who had a drug crime when he was way younger. Both are in their 40's and haven't been in trouble since.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    12y

    I have rented to those in the past with drug possession charges with no additional problems.

    Folks I don't want to rent to:

    Armed robbery

    Assault (did make an exception once for someone who got into a fight at a party when he was 18)

    Theft

    Fraud

    Sex crimes

  • Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    My experience with a felon...

    Older fellow in a transition program; needed a rental property to be able to get out of this program. His crime was setting his girlfriends trailer on fire ("accidentally" of course) 16 years before when he found she was cheating on him. She wasn't home at the time.

    He had served his time in prison, had been in this transition program for a number of years, had a job at a local hotel in maintenance, rode his bicycle there 7 days a week (six miles one way) as he was not allowed a car while in this program. I met his supervisors at work, his parole officer, his manager at the transition center. All spoke highly of this man. He was not a kid but rather someone in his mid 50's.

    I rented my little house to him. His supervisors at work donated him furniture, a TV, items for cooking. They all had high hopes for him. He was a very personable, very grateful fellow.

    Can you guess what happened when he was out of the controlled environment of the transition center?

    He first got himself a girlfriend. Then he got himself a roommate (without telling me). Who happened to make money selling drugs on the side. Then he got behind on the rent. Then he went to a barbecue where someone tried to pick up said girlfriend. He went after the guy with a knife. And ended up back in jail. All in the space of three months.

    Like many felons (and my partners brother is another one of them) they do perfectly fine in a controlled environment where someone monitors their every move on a daily basis. They do lousy on their own, including handling being a tenant. And since they often come in contact with the lowest of the low life in prison or these transition programs, that's who they may feel comfortable hanging around with once they are out.

    Would I rent to a felon again? Doubtful. I wouldn't even rent to my partners brother and he's a nice guy...again, in a controlled environment. On his own he continues to make terrible choices.

    Gail

  • Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    Here's why you should never rent to felons. Even if you have a different weighting system on what type of people commit certain types of offenses, the job market does not.

    And losing a job is the number one factor in tenants being evicted.

    For a felon, finding a job becomes very difficult. The job market is tough enough as it is. But for anyone in charge of hiring, seeing a felony on the record is an easy way to cull the list.

    So, while I'm not saying that people with felonies are all terrible people and am willing to give people second chances. I definitely wouldn't rent to anyone with a felony conviction - ever.

    I'm shocked how at ease some of the posts seemed to be with felony drug possession. I just don't see how a renter doing drugs is going to be anything but bad for your rental...... Either they'll pay the drugs before the rent or they'll bring in shady characters doing who knows what.

    But even if they've become model citizens. The fact remains that an employer is going to have a really tough time hiring a felon over someone that does not have a felony charge on their record. And that, to me, is the most obvious reason why any felony record at all is an automatic no.

    Doesn't matter to me how many convicted felons there are in this country. Let somebody else serve that market. I'm running a business that wants to make money. And I don't think you're going to come out on top if you include anybody with a felony or an eviction - no matter how long ago it was or how insignificant it may seem to you.

    Just my 2 cents anyway.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    12y

    With multifamily this is more related to the age of building and the location with the class of tenant.

    I know owners with class C buildings and even though they stay full the tenants cause lots of issue even with the qualified ones. Not even the felon part but lower income tenants tend to have unstable work and life histories, mental issues, etc.

    Some owners won't make constant repairs to a property until the tenant is out as they keep re-trashing things. Though the tenant pays on time and stays for years the units get worn down faster.

    Personally unless you are buying a C building for a turn around then unless you get at an extremely high cap it's not worth it. You could do better buying a B class building for the mid 8 caps with better tenants and rent levels and then have a seller hold a second to improve cash on cash.

    I gave some tenants with past histories a chance before and was burned. I just do not want to deal with that again. Some landlords will accept certain things for yields and others won't.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    Yes, we will rent to a person with a felony if they meet all of our minimum criteria.

    Here is an excerpt from our rental criteria:

    LEGAL/CRIMINAL HISTORY: 1. Criminal offenses (misdemeanor or felony) of a violent nature against either person or property will result in denial. 2. Applicants with a non-violent criminal misdemeanor that occurred more than two years ago or a non-violent criminal felony that occurred more than five years ago may be considered if restitution for their crime was made in full and all time was served. Also, we would require an additional security deposit and demonstration of good employment history, credit history, and rental history since the time of the crime. Applicants with a pattern of multiple criminal offenses will be denied regardless of what the employment, credit and rental history shows.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 311 posts · 94 votes
    12y

    Funny that this subject came up. One of my applicants told me she has 2 DUI's which is apparently a felony. She was totally upfront about it.

    I am seriously considering her. No evictions, makes good money.

    But.....she owns a hair salon....and I know how wild hairdresser types can be.....but that's a completely different story.

  • Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    12y

    In most states "practicing real estate without a license" is a felony. I have seen a number of people on where who listened to a guru pitch about wholesaling fall into that category while trying to make a buck. Would you guys exclude them from renting for you forever if the happened to get nailed?

  • Neptune, NJ · Member since 2014 · 116 posts · 51 votes
    12y

    Absolutely! the "state public service workers" I rent to get a guaranteed salary for doing almost no work during the day so if they have to they easily could get a night time job to come up with the rent... those are the type of "felons" ur talking about, right?

  • Investor · Jessup, MD · Member since 2013 · 437 posts · 180 votes
    12y

    @Patrick L.

    Great question, now the topic transitions into the type of crime from lower class to upper class criminals. This would likely classify as non-violent and most would rent to them. It all depends on if you can gauge dishonesty. For me it would come down to the interview for some crimes, for others such as sex crimes, murder, etc, it would be a no.

  • Anthony GaydenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    No violent felons, no sex offenders, no one recently released from prison. These people scare away other tenants, so they are bad for business. I have no issues renting to other felons, my issue is tenants who don't pay me, and tenants who tear up my property.

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    WOW @Bill Gulley , tough to answer this one. I have put lots of guys in prison, kept a few guys out of prison, and seen them at all stages in between.

    I do not disqualify someone from renting just because they have a felony. A lot of factors come into play. First MJ is very different from meth. Mj users tend to be lower energy and have lower paying jobs, generally they do not inspire fear in most folks. Many are perfect for your lower end rentals, even if they are currently using.

    Meth use scares me. Many of those folks will steal from or hurt almost anyone when they are deep in the addiction. I will not rent to anyone with a meth conviction earlier than 10 years ago, misdemeanor or felony. MJ users need a good job history and possibly a little more security deposit.

    Violent offenders I usually look up the actual crime and take the length of time since the crime happened. A third domestic violence is a felony in nearly every state. those can range from touching in a rude manner to beating their significant other to a bloody pulp. Nearly all of the domestic assaults involve drugs or booze. I DO NOT rent to those who do violent crimes while sober. It takes a special kind of person to intentionally hurt someone while sober.

    Sex offenders come in many varieties. The 18 year old with the 14 year old girlfriend who marries her and no criminal charges for 20 years does not worry me. Violent rapists I do not rent to, and people who use little children for their own sexual gratification deserve a special place in hell and I wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire.

    One big thing for me is age of the crime, even if it is misdemeanors a regular pattern of criminal offenses means you will have problems. Nearly all of them are tied to some form of substance abuse. That means poor job history and they use too much money getting high or drunk so less money for rent.

    In my experience the more recent the crime, the higher the risk. It is more difficult to form opinions on things like what their car looks, if they look you in the eye, and their general demeanor, as they have had classes in the Pen. on how to behave, or have cultivated certain habits or manners to further their criminal activities.

    Almost everyone deserves a second chance, but I believe they need to earn that chance, not just expect it as a matter of course. Work history makes a huge difference. If it comes to a tie, the criminal history person looses.

    I am in a better position than most to get the real story on what happened. It is perfectly fine to call the place where crime happened and get the actual police report, though usually it takes a written request. If they lie to me and I find out, I don't rent to them. If they are honest about what they did it helps a lot. those who accept they did a bad thing often have learned from the mistake, if they think their actions were justified they have not learned from it.

    If you get a bad feeling listen to it, fair or not, you need to sleep at night.

    just my 2 cents.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    Interesting responses, looks like most are willing to rent to them and some with conditions.

    Jerry, I thought you'd rent to these folks, not only can you find the details but who in their mind would try and mess over you???? I realize that if you had a business or personal relationship with someone it may complicate your position. I suspect there is a solution for that but who would dare mess with you??? LOL

    Way back in the Army, I had classes in investigative interrogation techniques, just looking me in the eye won't pass. I'm with Jerry 100% on his assessments, if people will be honest about a matter I'm more inclined to be agreeable. If I get a hint of deceit their out of the running.

    I'm not seeing a property or financial risk being increased due to a conviction, how does that DWI 8 years ago with the guy being on the wagon for 7 years, with good credit and good job effect the risk of not receiving rents or property damage? Is it just an excuse to get in their pocket for a bigger deposit? BTW, many states limit deposits that can be collected.

    Fraud is a character flaw that never goes away in my book. Reminds me of a TV "minister" who went to prison, he's out, got a different wife that doesn't have tattooed eyebrows, he's back on TV south of Branson pitching his same old stuff. Send in your "love pledge". :)

  • Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Felony convictions are NOT a protected class. That means you can refuse to even accept an application from a convicted felon (non expunged). You see I have contact HUD and challenged them on my policy.

    Before anyone even meets with me to see the apartment or house for rent I screen people with a mini application (verbal or written) and on the mini application I mention verifiable income and debt to income is the most 2 important items. However I won't even consider anyone with a Felons on your record (if it hasn't been expunged)
    Have a gross misdemeanor on your record (if not expunged)
    Have a misdemeanor on your record (if not expunged).

    Non expunged criminal convictions are not a protected class, and if I screen those people out of the application process BEFORE they even meet me, then there is NO basis for any complaints that I am illegally discriminating against them.

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    There are new guidelines that prohibit disqualifying people with a  blanket denial due to criminal history. I talked to an attorney about 3 weeks ago that has already received calls alleging discrimination due to their criminal history. I highly suggest getting qualified legal guidance to avoid problems. People are sue happy.

  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2014 · 397 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    Here is a link for a good summary on the new guidelines @John Thedford mentioned as all managers and landlords should be aware of this:

    http://rentalhousingjournal.com/articles/2016/04/1...

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