Someone was shot at my rental apartment.

Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes

I learned today that a shooting happened in one of my triplex last week and as a result someone died or was seriously injured. That happened last week and I just learned it today when I showed up at the property and one of the tenants next door told me. The tenant disappeared since the shooting (my best guess he is in police custody). He was not the victim and I don't have any details of what happened other than apparently someone was shot inside the apartment and apparently he died according to next door tenant. My tenant is on Section 8 so I guess I won't need to worry about the rent but I have no idea what happened to my tenant. Did anyone had a similar experience?

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Bradley Bogdan

Investor · Eureka, CA · Member since 2014 · 233 posts · 222 votes

12y

@Will Wu while the exact circumstances of his (likely) arrest will determine the details, it is very likely that any extended incarceration with trigger a revocation of the Section 8 voucher. From a strictly financial perspective, I would begin looking at whatever options are available to you in Florida to remove the tenant from the unit and rent to another person. This doesn't seem very likely to result in anything other than a messy overpayment situation from the PHA, where they don't find out about the arrest/incarceration for an extended period of time after it happens, and then retroactively revoke the voucher and want some of their funds back from you. At the very least, call the PHA and get instructions from them on what will happen in various scenarios. They will usually not be able to give you advice (technically illegal for them to do so), but they can explain what will happen if X, Y or Z is the case and you can draw your conclusions from there.

All that said, if you know the tenant, there is a human interest side to this as well. Obviously only you know whether there are any moral factors weighing in on an abrupt eviction based on all this, but I just want to throw it out there that your financial interests aren't the only factor in all of this.

Final note, if this turns out to be a domestic violence issue of some sort, and there are other people in the rental other than the primary renter, that invokes a special set of rules from the PHA, so definitely look into whether there is a wife/children etc. that are part of this and are residing there.

Best of luck, let us know how this horror story plays out?

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Justen Ashcraft
Braselton, GA · Member since 2013 · 243 posts · 57 votes
12y
Interesting situation. I wouldn't allow anyone access and when the time comes, and the court allows you access I would sell whatever is inside to recoup some losses.
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Will Wu
OP
Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Justen Ashcraft:

Interesting situation.
I wouldn't allow anyone access and when the time comes, and the court allows you access I would sell whatever is inside to recoup some losses.
So far there are no losses as his rent is paid by Sec. 8. I'm not sure where he is yet. So I guess I just have to wait to see if he shows up in a couple weeks or check with the police if he is under custody. I also learned he changed the locks and not sure if I will need to drill that lock or not. To make the situation worse I have a code enforcement inspection from the city tomorrow.
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Elizabeth Colegrove
Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
I would talk to a lawyer and see what the rules are for that type of situation. Would love it if you could report back, as it is a very interesting scenario. Sorry you are going through it.
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Bradley Bogdan
Investor · Eureka, CA · Member since 2014 · 233 posts · 222 votes
12y
@Will Wu while the exact circumstances of his (likely) arrest will determine the details, it is very likely that any extended incarceration with trigger a revocation of the Section 8 voucher. From a strictly financial perspective, I would begin looking at whatever options are available to you in Florida to remove the tenant from the unit and rent to another person. This doesn't seem very likely to result in anything other than a messy overpayment situation from the PHA, where they don't find out about the arrest/incarceration for an extended period of time after it happens, and then retroactively revoke the voucher and want some of their funds back from you. At the very least, call the PHA and get instructions from them on what will happen in various scenarios. They will usually not be able to give you advice (technically illegal for them to do so), but they can explain what will happen if X, Y or Z is the case and you can draw your conclusions from there.
All that said, if you know the tenant, there is a human interest side to this as well. Obviously only you know whether there are any moral factors weighing in on an abrupt eviction based on all this, but I just want to throw it out there that your financial interests aren't the only factor in all of this.
Final note, if this turns out to be a domestic violence issue of some sort, and there are other people in the rental other than the primary renter, that invokes a special set of rules from the PHA, so definitely look into whether there is a wife/children etc. that are part of this and are residing there.
Best of luck, let us know how this horror story plays out?
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Kyle J.
Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
12y
Many counties allow you to check and see if a person is in custody or not. For example, in your county you could check here: Palm Beach County Inmate Search
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Will Wu
OP
Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
12y
Thank you all for your helpful suggestions. I will definitely start digging what happened to my tenant. Once I get a clearer picture I will updated with you what happened.
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Ann Bellamy
Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y
I'd also check immediately to make sure there are no children or animals inside the unit without food or water. That would seem to constitute an emergency to make sure that's not the case.
Check with your attorney for this and for how to comply with the code enforcement inspection since he changed the locks (presumably without your permission). Don't wait, what if there is a baby in there without an adult to care for him, or a pet without your knowing it?
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Account Closed
Investor · Waynesville, NC · Member since 2014 · 408 posts · 121 votes
12y
So many questions come to my mind. Is your unit a crime scene? Can you enter the unit? If someone was shot in there, you will obviously want to have it thoroughly cleaned as soon as you are allowed to.
Also, I would certainly check to see if your tenant is incarcerated and has been charged. If so, would go ahead and clear the apartment out (store the stuff) and call it abandoned. I would also contact the Sec. 8 office to let them know. You definitely don't want them to pay for several months and then ask for it back.
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Kyle J.
Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Also, I would certainly check to see if your tenant is incarcerated and has been charged. If so, would go ahead and clear the apartment out (store the stuff) and call it abandoned. I would also contact the Sec. 8 office to let them know. You definitely don't want them to pay for several months and then ask for it back.
Definitely DON'T do this. Getting arrested isn't an automatic eviction. Whether or not your tenant is in jail, he's still your legal tenant with rights to the property.
Depending on what he was arrested for (assuming he was even arrested), and the circumstances surrounding the arrest, you MAY have grounds to begin eviction proceedings depending on your local laws and what your lease agreement says. But you cannot just "go ahead and clear the apartment out".
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Will Wu
OP
Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

So many questions come to my mind. Is your unit a crime scene? Can you enter the unit? If someone was shot in there, you will obviously want to have it thoroughly cleaned as soon as you are allowed to.
Also, I would certainly check to see if your tenant is incarcerated and has been charged. If so, would go ahead and clear the apartment out (store the stuff) and call it abandoned. I would also contact the Sec. 8 office to let them know. You definitely don't want them to pay for several months and then ask for it back.
I checked the police booking blotter website his name is not showing. Also I did not see any crime scene tape or anything that indicates the apartment is a crime scene. I can't access the unit because he changed the locks. I will go to the police station to inquiry about what happened before deciding my next step.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@Will Wu
do I understand this right you have a male tenant that qualified for SEC 8?
NOt sure I have ever had a male... all ours have been female with kids.
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Will Wu
OP
Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Will Wu
do I understand this right you have a male tenant that qualified for SEC 8?
NOt sure I have ever had a male... all ours have been female with kids.
Yes. I have a strong and young male under Section 8 (100% paid by Sec. 8). He has a small child. I have many female tenants that are in their twenties living alone in a 2/1 apartment. They seem perfectly able to work but they don't do it. I have tenants that uses their mother or grandmother to apply for Sec. 8 and live for free and don't want to work. They sleep until noon and play video games the whole day. I personally think system is a waste of our tax money since half of the people under Section 8 does not seem to need support if are willing to work.
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Account Closed
Investor · Waynesville, NC · Member since 2014 · 408 posts · 121 votes
12y
@Kyle J. , you are right and I should have stipulated a bit of a time frame. I have had tenants arrested and gone for over a month. I had to eventually clear the apartment out, store their stuff and move on. BUT, I would absolutely check with Sec. 8 first and see what they say. If they say they are kicking him out of the program, I would go ahead and start the process as well.
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Jason V.
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2012 · 109 posts · 42 votes
12y
I would contact the law enforcement agency that is investigating this incident and request to speak with the detective assigned to the case. They will most likely have you file for an open records request for the report, but they may be able to fill you in on some of the details, including your tenants whereabouts or if they are looking for him. They may also be able to give you an idea of the tenants future in your unit.
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Bradley Bogdan
Investor · Eureka, CA · Member since 2014 · 233 posts · 222 votes
12y
@Kyle J. You're right, just like @Account Closed I should have been a bit more specific. Obviously, I'm not advocating anything illegal, however, IF he was associated with criminal activity that was disruptive to other tenants, that probably violates his lease. I'm not familiar with the exact laws of Florida, but that usually gives you options, especially if you have a month to month agreement rather than a fixed length lease.
Now, individual PHAs have a fairly wide range of responses they are allowed to take when someone is merely INDICTED (doesn't need to be convicted) on charges. They do not have to do anything, but usually gun and drug related charges bring a quick boot from the program. If they are associated with the actual rented premise, or are of certain particular natures, they will likely ban the person from the program forever. What I'm suggesting, for your financial protection, is to make sure that you understand exactly what the PHA will do in this circumstance, so that you know how to make sure to protect yourself. PHAs don't usually have a system that flags them when participants are involved in crime or incarcerated, so this can lead to them paying rent for months after such an event, as they assume everything is normal. DO NOT LET THAT HAPPEN, they're the gov't, and they'll want their money back when they retroactively revoke the voucher. Again, not advocating anything illegal, and I understand the situation is potentially more complex with domestic violence issues possibly involved, but definitely get a handle on what is going on and what the PHA is planning on doing.
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Will Wu
OP
Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
12y
I got the report of what happened by searching online.
N A R R A T I V E
Offense / Incident: Death Investigation
Date: 8/7/14
Time: 1716 hours
Location: xxxxxx
Victim: Pierre
Summary: Subjects girlfriend XXXX stated ZZZZ was in the bathroom for approximately 5 minutes and she wondered what he was doing. XXXXX called out to him with negative results, and then attempted to open the door. XXXXX was unable to open the door
because ZZZZ body was partially blocking the doorway. XXXX was able to push the door open and found ZZZZ bleeding from his
head. She then immediately told their roommate YYYY to contact PD. XXXX advised she did not hear any gunshot go off while she was
in the apartment.
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George P.
Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
locks changed and shooting??? My money is on the white or dry green stuff
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Jason Eyerly
Real Estate Agent · Charleston, SC · Member since 2013 · 424 posts · 99 votes
12y
For the body to be blocking the door, and nobody else being in the bathroom, that tells me suicide. How would someone else get out and put the body against the door?
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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
There is obviously a lot going on. I would try to get in contact with the renter and ask him directly. It also appears a female is claiming to be a roommate. That may be a problem for Section 8, I am not sure. You do need to make sure the blood, any bullet holes etc are taken care of properly. I would think a simple gunshot residue check on the occupants should make or break the story, hopefully law enforcement did some. Either way you do not get to declare guilty or innocent. That is for the courts not you. If you move his stuff out while he is in jail and he gets out the next day you will have problems. I have called tenants who were in jail to work out their rent issues and helped them get a friend or relative in to move them out because they were not able to. Good luck, keep us posted.
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Shelly Swanzy
Real Estate Investor · Nevada, TX · Member since 2014 · 66 posts · 16 votes
12y
From the narrative it seems like there were three adults living there (the one lying on the bathroom floor, the girlfriend, and another roommate) - strange there was no mention of a young child. Do any of the names on the narrative match your tenants name?
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Bob E.
Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
Check with the police that the area is not an active crime scene and it is OK to enter the apartment.
Was the victim your tenant or someone else? If someone else then your tenant very well might return. Check with the local PD to see if anyone is being held in relation to activities in your apartment.
As far as the locks being changed you can pick up a cheap lock pick "gun" on Amazon for around $40. YOUtube will show you how to use it and its pretty simple. You can then repine the lock that is installed or remove it and replace with your own.
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Will Wu
OP
Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
12y
Today I went to the apartment and the tenant appeared. I then proceeded to ask him what happened he told me his "guess" brought a friend and that guy placed his gun in the vanity and apparently the gun went off by accident killing him. He is not under arrest or anything. I gave him a warning that he should not bring any "guest" or "roommates" anymore or change the locks as these actions are considered breach of the lease. What happened was not a violent shooting but an unfortunate accident that happens when people carry guns.
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Vicki K.
Investor · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 37 posts · 13 votes
12y
I find it very strange that there was a fatal shooting but 1) the unit hasn't been locked down as a crime scene and 2) you didn't find out about it until now.
Law enforcement would be all over this and I have to imagine someone would've contacted you as the owner on record for the property if it were indeed a crime scene.
Are you sure the person who reported this wasn't smoking something or trying to get your tenant in trouble? This just doesn't make an ounce of sense to me.
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Vicki K.
Investor · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 37 posts · 13 votes
12y
Oops, sorry, I just saw your latest update. Was still reading some of the previous posts. This should go into "the stupid things things tenants and their "guesses" do" thread. ;o)
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Will Wu
OP
Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Vicki K.:

Oops, sorry, I just saw your latest update. Was still reading some of the previous posts. This should go into "the stupid things things tenants and their "guesses" do" thread. ;o)
Right! Having someone killed by accident in your apartment because a Sec. 8 tenant was having a "guest". This just reflect that being a multiple unit landlord is not for the fainted heart. We need to be able to deal with all type of things that usually will not happen in our life.
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