Tenant smoking and disrupting neighbors - what can I do?
Investor · Janesville, WI · Member since 2013 · 180 posts · 155 votes
I bought a Triplex with an upper and 2 lower units early this year. Currently the upper tenant is enraged that his apartment constantly smells like pot. He has called the police and has messaged me many times that this needs to stop over the last several weeks. The 3rd tenant has also mentioned that they have been concerned about smelling pot but hasn't been as hostile about the scenario. Meanwhile I have warned the suspect person that there is a no smoking policy and that they would be evicted if this continued. However they have completely denied ever smoking and claims they do not know what the fuss is all about. All 3 tenants are great tenants (other than this fued) that pay on time and have signed yearly leases. What can I legally do to get out of this scenario? I would evict the person smoking, however I don't have any proof that would hold up. Keep in mind I live in WI where pot is illegal and we are nearing December which means longer vacancies and high utility costs. I'm curious if anyone has some advice on how to handle this scenario?
Since you have had two complaints regarding this matter, you must take action whether you believe or not. So that means you need to be smarter than this tenant. Sometimes we need to just rely on a good old fashion "Bluff".
Write them a letter (All tenants of the building) stating that you have had complaints regarding the smell of pot in the building. (This heads off any discrimination charges by singling one person).
Tell them that due to pot being smoked is Illegal in your State, and it has been reported that there is a possibility of pot being smoked on the premises, that you have no choice but to refer it to the Legal Authorities. That it is required by law for you to do this (Taking a lot of the responsibility off your shoulders. Blame it on the Government)
I have had to do this many times, and it did resolve the matter. Either the tenant quit smoking on the premises, or they moved, or maybe they just ended up sharing what they had with the other tenants ( Just Joking) to get them off their backs. At any rate. That was the end of that!
If the bluff doesn't work and you still receive complaints about the smell of pot, you will have to actually take action and report it to the Authorities, or find yourself in trouble.
Nancy Neville
Can you smell lingering old smoke when you go over there? Have you been in this guy's apartment for a general inspection and seen proof of smoking such as ash, ashtrays, butts, etc?
Since you have had two complaints regarding this matter, you must take action whether you believe or not. So that means you need to be smarter than this tenant. Sometimes we need to just rely on a good old fashion "Bluff".
Write them a letter (All tenants of the building) stating that you have had complaints regarding the smell of pot in the building. (This heads off any discrimination charges by singling one person).
Tell them that due to pot being smoked is Illegal in your State, and it has been reported that there is a possibility of pot being smoked on the premises, that you have no choice but to refer it to the Legal Authorities. That it is required by law for you to do this (Taking a lot of the responsibility off your shoulders. Blame it on the Government)
I have had to do this many times, and it did resolve the matter. Either the tenant quit smoking on the premises, or they moved, or maybe they just ended up sharing what they had with the other tenants ( Just Joking) to get them off their backs. At any rate. That was the end of that!
If the bluff doesn't work and you still receive complaints about the smell of pot, you will have to actually take action and report it to the Authorities, or find yourself in trouble.
Nancy Neville
I would just go talk to the smoking tenant again and say..look, I know your smoking pot in here, how I know for a fact is none of your business and what you do elsewhere, off my property, I don't care but I have a business to run so here is how its gonna be ....when I do hear you have smoked pot on my property again there will be severe consequences. Tell them you have already been called by law enforcement for questioning about his drug use or possibly being a dealer. Tell him it would be in his best interest not to do it again and you dont want to make him move. This is considered a disturbance to other tenants and you will be forced to evict if it continues.
No arguing, no discussion, no explanation or denial of the fact needed. Hang up or walk away, they will get the point or move.
Jared you are accusing someone of doing something with no evidence to the fact.
Unless you have absolute proof or evidence that this tenant is actually smoking pot, then you can't accuse him or her of smoking it, and if I was accused of something like this, that was an illegal act, and was talked to like that being innocent, there would be a lawsuit by me that would make your head swim.
I understand where you are coming from. And it's normal to want to put the muscle on our tenants and fly off the handle. But flying off the handle, and making demands, especially with no evidence, is cutting your own throat.
This is a business of people management. And the last time I looked, America use to be based on innocent until proven guilty. It used to be....however, it is changing.
Nancy Neville
I would do as @Nicole A. suggests... do an inspection. This is a good time of year to do seasonal inspections of all the units, for maintenance needs. While you are in the units, keep an eye out for drug paraphernalia. If you are not familiar with what this looks like for different types of street drugs, learn about it. Also, take a disinfectant wipe and wipe around windows and doors. Smoking residue can sometimes be picked up this way, as well as in internal hallway ceilings (while you are testing the smoke detector of course). Wipe down the smoke detector and a bit of the ceilings/walls while you there. If the HVAC system has filters, change them and look for residue in the filter too. Furnace filters tell quite a tale if you know what to look for.... unauthorized smoking and unauthorized pets leave signs.
When I am investigating a tenant behavioral problem at one of our properties, I approach it like Columbo, with an unassuming demeanor. I observe, I ask questions, and I am likely to catch them in the act or catch them in a lie. Then I address the matter swiftly. Like other posters have mentioned, take it to them head-on, don't delay.
The problem in physically going and checking out the premises, is that you need to give your tenants a 24 hour notice before entry. Many times it's pretty tough to get a tenant's okay to enter the property, and even if you don't get their okay, and go in because legally you can with a 24 hour notice, they will clean up the place and hide or remove the stuff by the time you get there.
However, Marcia sounds like a real good "hound dog" with a good "Nose" like me, and I'm sure she would be able to spot something, but even if it's residue picked up from a Q-tip, they could have had visitors smoking and not themselves being in possession of the drugs. You need to prove that the TENANT is the ONE.
I don't like getting involved with a one on one confrontation when it has to do with drugs, or fights among themselves or neighbors. Especially in Detroit. One on One Confrontation can lead to death when you deal with stuff like "drugs".
Everything I do is done in writing. It is my evidence. My proof. If I go over there, to check things out, to confront the tenant, the tenant could say I planted the stuff there. It becomes a "he said, she said" scenario. Judges want facts and nothing but facts...maam!
Just some things to think about. Cover your "butt", keep yourself safe. Write the letters addressing the problem, and call the Feds if it doesn't get resolved.
Nancy Neville
@Account Closed is right about giving proper legal notice to enter. I make it a "maintenance" inspection and do tend to building needs while I am there. Many tenants have no clue I'll be keeping my eyes open for lease violations. Yes, most tenants will try to hide the evidence, but many leave stuff out. Especially those who are stoned or careless. If you walk in and the room smells of newly burned incense, it can be a sign that you are on the right track.
Yes, do be careful. Know your area and know your tenants. Marijuana is legal in our state for recreational and medical use, but we don't allow it to be smoked on our property. We hold our tenants accountable for the actions of their guests and invitees as regards to compliance with our rental agreement. If the neighboring tenants are complaining, then it is a problem that must be swiftly addressed.
Our tenants know that we partner with law enforcement and that we will ask a tenant to voluntarily comply with public law and the terms of our rental agreement before we would take legal action. We rarely need to involve law enforcement. Luckily, we can use a 20-day "no cause" notice to terminate tenancy if it is not working for us and we want the tenant out. We don't need to build evidence or prove anything.
One approach I have used in this situation..... "It appears __________ is going on here. This is what our rental agreement says _________. To continue to live here you need to do __________. If you choose to do___________ then we will do __________." If I have evidence, first hand knowledge and not just hear-say, I will say. "You know and I know there is pot-smoking going on here (or other behavior you are addressing). Doing that here is not an option. You can choose to move, take it elsewhere, or choose to live here and follow the terms of the rental agreement. Your choice. What do you plan to do?"
@Account Closed is right about giving proper legal notice to enter. I make it a "maintenance" inspection and do tend to building needs while I am there. Many tenants have no clue I'll be keeping my eyes open for lease violations. Yes, most tenants will try to hide the evidence, but many leave stuff out. Especially those who are stoned or careless. If you walk in and the room smells of newly burned incense, it can be a sign that you are on the right track.
Yes, do be careful. Know your area and know your tenants. Marijuana is legal in our state for recreational and medical use, but we don't allow it to be smoked on our property. We hold our tenants accountable for the actions of their guests and invitees as regards to compliance with our rental agreement. If the neighboring tenants are complaining, then it is a problem that must be swiftly addressed.
Our tenants know that we partner with law enforcement and that we will ask a tenant to voluntarily comply with public law and the terms of our rental agreement before we would take legal action. We rarely need to involve law enforcement. Luckily, we can use a 20-day "no cause" notice to terminate tenancy if it is not working for us and we want the tenant out. We don't need to build evidence or prove anything.
One approach I have used in this situation..... "It appears __________ is going on here. This is what our rental agreement says _________. To continue to live here you need to do __________. If you choose to do___________ then we will do __________." If I have evidence, first hand knowledge and not just hear-say, I will say. "You know and I know there is pot-smoking going on here (or other behavior you are addressing). Doing that here is not an option. You can choose to move, take it elsewhere, or choose to live here and follow the terms of the rental agreement. Your choice. What do you plan to do?"
Marcia: When it comes to medical marijuana use, do LLs in WA have to make any accommodations? You can prohibit smoking, but you can't prohibit edibles....right?
As we know practically anyone can get a medical marijuana card. Very few people with medical marijuana cards actually need them. Whether it is medical marijuana or recreational marijuana, we can still prohibit smoking on our properties, inside or outside. Disability laws allow for reasonable accommodation. People who need marijuana or THC for medical reasons, related to a qualified disability, can be accommodated by other means. Medical marijuana can be smoked, vaporized, eaten, or taken as a liquid extract. We don't allow the smoking.
As we know practically anyone can get a medical marijuana card. Very few people with medical marijuana cards actually need them. Whether it is medical marijuana or recreational marijuana, we can still prohibit smoking on our properties, inside or outside. Disability laws allow for reasonable accommodation. People who need marijuana or THC for medical reasons, related to a qualified disability, can be accommodated by other means. Medical marijuana can be smoked, vaporized, eaten, or taken as a liquid extract. We don't allow the smoking.
I'm with you on the no smoking....of anything. I would prohibit incense and scented candles if I thought I could enforce it, and if I didn't think it interfered with quiet enjoyment. IMO, we are going to start seeing some medical marijuana prescriptions where the required dose and method of administration will explicitly prescribe smoke inhalation. It's coming.....
Then let's bring back the old fashioned smoking parlors... the public ones! One of our local restaurants allows people to smoke pot in a designated area. I still would not allow smoking of any kind on our property and I think the public health department and fire marshall would back me up on that! I hear you about the incense and candles, that's a tougher nut to crack.
Advice on your inspection if you think they may be growing also look for grow lights and open the closets. We have student tenants and I found plants in the closet. I knew they were smoking and this was how we caught it.
I wouldn't worry about it, its just pot and its not your problem. Has the 3rd floor tenant complained or said that when you asked?
If I had to get rid of somebody it'd be the non smoker as she sounds like a complainer. Meaning ignore it if the complainer moves out over it oh well. The cops haven't done anything because its pot no one cares, especially the pothead, except maybe the complainer. She sounds like the type if it wasn't the pot she'd have something else to annoy everyone about.
I get tenants all the time leave it on the table, cloud of smoke. I go HEY YOU KNOW THE RULES ON THAT. They get this look of guilt all quiet. Then I tell them "come on you gotta share with the maintenance man." Frown goes to a smile and they offer to let me hit the blunt.
hello Smoking marijuana is legal now I live in a fourplex and my neighbors are lying saying my guest speed when backing up out of shared driveway now no one ever told me so how was I to know so they really don't like the smoke but are banding together to get me evicted without proof for my guest behavior that happened two years ago what are my rights and option in ca
The good thing about marijuana smoke, is it does not damage the unit the way tobacco smoke does. tobacco smoke will turn the walls, and every surface yellow, stain it ruin it.
Run a ozone machine for a hour after tenant moves out, and all smell of marijuana will be gone.
Landlords have a legal obligation to insure "reasonable enjoyment" for all tenants. If you do not address the issue of dope smoke, you have a complaint, you are not fulfilling your legal obligations as a landlord. Speak to the tenant tell him it stops or you will have no option but to terminate his lease.
Your tenant is lying about not smoking, he did not stop when you asked him to and you did nothing after informing him he would be evicted. Looks like he owns you at this point.
Tell the other two tenants there is nothing you intend to do and that you will release them from their leases.