No SSN, no CC, No Proof of Income

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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No SSN, no CC, No Proof of Income

Evelyn Jordan
Residential Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 50 posts · 30 votes

Hey BP People,

I am currently screening tenant applications for a vacant rental property of mine and I came across an interesting situation. The applicants are a Hispanic family with 3 young kids; Mother is a housewife and Father works at an auto bodyshop. They do not have SSN so I cannot run a credit check; As a proof of income I have a formal letter from the bodyshop owner stating the amount of money he pays to his employee monthly. I confirmed father's employment at his job of over 8 years and obtained a good verbal reference from their current landlord where they resided for over 5 years. Applicants also provided a formal letter of reference from the family's pastor who has known them for over 5 years as well. They are willing to put down a 2-month rent deposit.

I do know that there's a lot of people out there without any credit history or SSNs and I am willing to work around it. However, I am not sure how risky it would be to approve their application based on personal and professional references only? 

Would you rent to that family and if so, would you ask for extra forms of identification or obtain more references, ......? 

Any advice would be much appreciated! 

Evelyn

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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
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Originally posted by @Belinda R.:

I ran into this issue recently. I declined the couple after talking to an attorney. he basically said if the deal goes bad forget trying to garnish wages for past rent or damages to the property. If u can, collect as much upfront legally allowed in your state. It was too risky for me. 

 True for pretty much any tenant that leaves owing you money.

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  • Marc Cunningham
    Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 103 posts · 81 votes
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    We require at least one adult to have a SSN so they would not pass our pre-screening questions.

    But if you determine that is not a requirement for you, at least go with the two-month rent security deposit.

    A good 5-year rental history carries a lot of weight for me. That along with a 2 months security deposit may be an acceptable risk.

    3Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
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    Money talks, bs walks. Money upfront and you're protected. However, have to have some form of id from someone. This guy could be psycho. How about the body shop owner/pastor co-sign???
    3Reply
  • Evelyn Jordan
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 50 posts · 30 votes
    11y

    Thank you for your response, Marc!

    I completely agree with you and I will consider that application along with the others. Thanks for advice. 

    Evelyn

    0Reply
  • Evelyn Jordan
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 50 posts · 30 votes
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    Seth, you are absolutely right. I am glad they have a good relationship with their pastor and employer, but that does not mean they will pay rent on time.  Co-signer is a good idea.

    Thanks for commenting!

    0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
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    And sometimes you have to just go with your gut instincts .  My first rental I didnt know anything about screening , I liked the person who applied ,  This was in 1997 , believe it or not they are still in the house , never missed a payment , and the place looks better than when I lived there in my 20's.   

    4Reply
  • Joe Moore
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes
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    I would ask for ask for 3 or 4 month rent deposit.  Ask for a checking account which they probably don't have.   I would probably pass on this one.  You know there a lot of fake id here.

    1Reply
  • Belinda R.
    Investor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2014 · 105 posts · 34 votes
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    I ran into this issue recently. I declined the couple after talking to an attorney. he basically said if the deal goes bad forget trying to garnish wages for past rent or damages to the property. If u can, collect as much upfront legally allowed in your state. It was too risky for me. 

    1Reply
  • Marcia Maynard
    Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
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    I would give it a go. Even if they do not have a SSN, there are other documents they may have... check out this list: https://mn.gov/commerce/energy/images/AuthorizedAl...

    You can and should check their photo ID to verify to whom you are renting. They will have some sort of valid government issued ID, even if it is from another country or a passport.

    Not likely you will get an employer or a pastor to co-sign a rental agreement. Not really necessary if you have ample security deposit and good rental history and good work history. Most low income tenants are not collectable or garnishable anyway, whether or not they have a SSN. Cover your risk up front with the extra security deposit and you should be fine. What does your intuition tell you?

    2Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
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    Originally posted by @Belinda R.:

    I ran into this issue recently. I declined the couple after talking to an attorney. he basically said if the deal goes bad forget trying to garnish wages for past rent or damages to the property. If u can, collect as much upfront legally allowed in your state. It was too risky for me. 

     True for pretty much any tenant that leaves owing you money.

    5Reply
  • Michele FischerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
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    If they have lived at one address for 5 years, has worked at one job for 8 years, and you can independently verify that the letters you received aren't forged, I would go for it.  We would require a co-signer with a SSN though, somebody you can actually chase if things go south.  You need to update your criteria/scoring sytem to document what you are willing to live with and use that with all current applicants in this pool.   We are currently renting to a family with a similar situation except that he has a bogus SSN.  We were able to get some address history, but credit had glaring warnings.  Things are going great so far, they are very stable, I would do it again.

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    1Reply
  • Rocky V.
    Rental Property Investor · Arlington, TX · Member since 2012 · 788 posts · 640 votes
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    We have rented to people with TINs.  I would ask for an increased security deposit, 1st and last months rent.  We actually had one tenant pay 6 months in advance once.  He turned out to be a great tenant and upon move out left the house rent ready.

    3Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
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    If this is in California, I believe it may have been 

    @Account Closed who posted that you can't ask applicants for SSN (and I could be wrong about that) ...

    1Reply
  • Andrew S.
    Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
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    Given the info provided here, I would absolutely consider renting to them.  Pay a visit to the employer and the pastor and former landlord, and verify those are legit.  With that in hand, this seems like a smaller risk to me than many of my other tenants.  Yes, in principle, its probably easier to case those if they fail to pay, but in reality, actually collecting is exceedingly difficult regardless of whether you have a SS in hand or not.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2010 · 239 posts · 110 votes
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    @Evelyn Jordan I would get a written reference from any current landlord then compare the information against the application. It's way too easy for anyone to claim to be a current landlord over the phone.  

    Sounds like you double checked the employment against the letter. Important because anyone can type out a letter and add some letterhead and a signature.. BUT is the person an employee or independent contractor? If employee why didn't he provide pay stubs instead of a letter? A letter to me indicates independent contractor. If contractor will be harder to garnish later.

    Photo ID is a requirement of mine. Most everyone has some type of photo ID. If not can't prove identity therefore denied in my process. I don't know how I could sue a tenant if I didn't have anything substantiating it was that person who signed the lease to begin with.

    I agree with others on this thread who suggested a co-signor. I refer to it as a guarantor but same concept. 

    Money upfront, make sure it's correctly handled in accordance with any state landlord-tenant law maximums such as a security deposit. But keep in mind even money upfront doesn't always make up for costly timely evictions in the rear. 

    There aren't any easy answers in this business :)   Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.....

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    If this is in California, I believe it may have been 

    @Account Closed who posted that you can't ask applicants for SSN (and I could be wrong about that) ...

     Yup.  In CA you have to make an effort to accept other forms of suitable ID.  And you can't require legal residency status documentation.  

    3Reply
  • David Avetisyan
    Rental Property Investor · Glendale, CA · Member since 2013 · 685 posts · 334 votes
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    It takes about 3 months to evict in CA. 

    If you are content with everything they have brought to the table, for safety you may consider factoring in the following into your deposit: 

    3 months rent + damages they may cause + attorney fees for uncontested eviction 

    Good luck!  

    1Reply
  • Evelyn Jordan
    OP
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 50 posts · 30 votes
    11y

    Thank you All for all the good advice and comments. It seems like a lot of you are willing to work around the standard rules and consider  applicants on a case by case basis. 

    I obtained verbal references from all provided resources and confirmed the information on their application. I obtained two forms of IDs for each applicant and ITIN number (tax returns for last 2 years). 

    Considering all of the above, I have decided to approve the candidates.

    I will keep you posted on how everything goes.

    Thank you All again!

    Best,

    Evelyn

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    Originally posted by @Evelyn Jordan:

    Thank you All for all the good advice and comments. It seems like a lot of you are willing to work around the standard rules and consider  applicants on a case by case basis. 

    I obtained verbal references from all provided resources and confirmed the information on their application. I obtained two forms of IDs for each applicant and ITIN number (tax returns for last 2 years). 

    Considering all of the above, I have decided to approve the candidates.

    I will keep you posted on how everything goes.

    Thank you All again!

    Best,

    Evelyn

    Glad you were able to approve your tenants.  The "standard" rules have changed in this era of identity theft.  Not to mention the CA rules regarding residency status. There is now no reason to require a SS# from an applicant.  All three credit bureaus can work without SS#s.  With sufficient ID and info, you can obtain background checks without SS#.  In the past two years I have had two incidents of credit card identify theft (one serious).  Last year someone filed a false tax return using my SS#......to get a refund,  Which was laughable because I don't get refunds.  I had already filed and paid my taxes when someone else filed. The IRS has so little cross checks they just send refunds to anyone who asks. 

    All that to say, I'd never put my SS# on a rental application, and I suggest that you don't either.

    2Reply
  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
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    Originally posted by @Joe Moore:

    I would ask for ask for 3 or 4 month rent deposit.  Ask for a checking account which they probably don't have.   I would probably pass on this one.  You know there a lot of fake id here.

    It's not legal in the jurisdiction.  Even if it is legal, it is unnecessarily punitive.

    Evelyn:

    What is their reason for leaving their current home?  If they are leaving on good terms with the current landlord (i.e. they need more space, want to be closer to a particular school, etc) and that landlord states they have never missed rent (in 5 or 8 years), then chances are quite likely they will not miss rent with your.   If they are paying a deposit of 2-months rent and you are renting month-to-month, you should be covered with sufficient time to have them move if something goes south.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @David Avetisyan:

    It takes about 3 months to evict in CA. 

    If you are content with everything they have brought to the table, for safety you may consider factoring in the following into your deposit: 

    3 months rent + damages they may cause + attorney fees for uncontested eviction 

    Good luck!  

    I've done a lot of evicting of hold over tenants in CA.  I've never had one go 90 days, even when they answered the complaint, even when I go all the way to lockout.  However, damages are a real possibility.  I've mitigated some of that with cash for keys after I've filed and/or gotten a judgment, but it's always a risk and a potential expense.  The variable I see lots is on the landlord side:  failure to file the quit or pay or quit notice asap.  

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    If this is in California, I believe it may have been 

    @Account Closed who posted that you can't ask applicants for SSN (and I could be wrong about that) ...

     Yup.  In CA you have to make an effort to accept other forms of suitable ID.  And you can't require legal residency status documentation.  

    I should have qualified this.  In CA, if you don't make an effort to accept other forms of ID and info from tenant applicants without SS#s, you run the risk of being sued for discrimination.  SS#s are closely associated with legal residency.  In CA you can't can't require proof of legal residency or deny applicants based on residency status.  Hence, you are treading on a landline of potential discrimination claims by "requiring" SS#s and not accepting other ID.  There are lots of tenant advocacy groups and attorneys on this issue here. I say go a different route in your formal application process.

    0Reply
  • Joe Moore
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes
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    @K. Marie Poe 

    In L.A., the eviction take most often up to 6 months or longer due to  overworked court  system.  And please, if you have a professional tenant, you can cause dire financial stress if he can get other tenants to lineup against you.

    1Reply
  • Joe Moore
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Roy N.:
    Originally posted by @Joe Moore:

    I would ask for ask for 3 or 4 month rent deposit.  Ask for a checking account which they probably don't have.   I would probably pass on this one.  You know there a lot of fake id here.

    It's not legal in the jurisdiction.  Even if it is legal, it is unnecessarily punitive.

    Evelyn:

    What is their reason for leaving their current home?  If they are leaving on good terms with the current landlord (i.e. they need more space, want to be closer to a particular school, etc) and that landlord states they have never missed rent (in 5 or 8 years), then chances are quite likely they will not miss rent with your.   If they are paying a deposit of 2-months rent and you are renting month-to-month, you should be covered with sufficient time to have them move if something goes south.

    0Reply
  • Joe Moore
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes
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    @Roy N

    I have not figure how to do the @.  I have done it, and I know fellow landlords who have done  3 months or more. Not totally sure if it is legal, but I have not heard of anyone being took to court for it here in L.A.  My guess it is legal.

    0Reply
  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Joe Moore:

    @Roy N

    I have not figure how to do the @.  I have done it, and I know fellow landlords who have done  3 months or more. Not totally sure if it is legal, but I have not heard of anyone being took to court for it here in L.A.  My guess it is legal.

    It is illegal for a month-to-month rental and the answer was only three clicks away: California Civil Code 1950.5 article C.

    1Reply
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