Flooding in apartment- holding us liable for pipe burst

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Flooding in apartment- holding us liable for pipe burst

Andy Pat
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 0 votes

My roommate and I live in a leased apartment. Due to a water pipe burst couple weeks ago, the entire apartment got flooded with damage to all my personal property and several other units in the building. The lease office holds us liable since the water pipe froze and burst in our unit. They blame a big window being left open while we were away for a week. It is not true. All the windows were closed and all appliances unplugged before we left our apartment. The building is very old and we are not responsible for any equipment failure or damages. We have renters insurance with a liability of 300k. Adjustors are in the process of assessing damages. Our landlord states that the building damage could approximate a million$ and we would be responsible for costs exceeding 300k. My concerns are:

1) If damages exceed 300k and if they falsely prove us liable, we are in no situation to pay. Does their insurance kick in? How do we fight it?

2) We continue to pay rent, but the apartment is uninhabitable. Neither the landlord (lease office) nor our insurance will provide us temp relocation and currently we do not have a place to live. Do we approach a higher authority?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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Richard C.
Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y

My advice is to delete your post, because you just admitted negligence.

Your statements are a little contradictory.  First you suggest that you weren't negligent by leaving the heater off, because the unit held its temperature fairly well.  Then you list a bunch of reasons why you are not at fault because it is a cold building where there are lots of ways for the pipes to freeze.  You get to have one of those arguments, not both.

If they want you out, you should offer to leave in exchange for being held harmless for the repairs/damage. See how that goes.

And next time you rent an apartment and go out of town for a few days, leave the damn heat on.

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  • James Klafehn
    Investor · Freeville, NY · Member since 2014 · 131 posts · 37 votes
    11y

    1. Their insurance most likely does not cover any of your stuff. You need to read your lease regarding coverage. I carry extra insurance but I specifically say in my lease that my insurance does not cover any of their property and that they should carry their own insurance if they want to be covered. (Landlords cannot legally require a tenant to carry renters insurance in NYS)

    2.Check with your state laws and your lease but if a building is going to be uninhabitable for x amount of time the lease can be made null and void by notifying your landlord. In NYS I think a tenant can get out of the lease if repairs will take longer than 30 days.

    As for you being held liable, they would have to prove that you were negligent. I suspect that would be very hard to do. Did you turn your heat off when you were gone for the week? Did you leave a window open? Where did the water line freeze?

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  • Nathan Paisley
    Flipper/Rehabber · Atlantic County, NJ · Member since 2012 · 514 posts · 209 votes
    11y

    I can't help you in what to do but even if the window was closed pipes can still break. If the heat was turned off while you were gone or water lines are near/on the exterior wall they can expand in the cold breaking the weakest point and when it warms/thaws out is when you find out about it. 

    Sorry to hear about your situation... Good luck and keep us informed thanks.

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  • Lynn McGeein
    Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Maybe contact someone like this (a link to Philadelphia community legal services):

    http://clsphila.org/get-help/landlord-tenant-priva...

    You can probably find landlord/tenant laws online for your area, which should state the rules for when a home is uninhabitable, but I believe most areas will not require the landlord to provide any alternatives or release you from your lease if it was your fault, which is why you should probably contact a lawyer asap.   

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  • Andy Pat
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Thanks for the responses. 

    I was referring to landlord's insurance for the building, not for our personal property. In case that they falsely prove that it was our fault and our insurance ends up settling a liability amount, wouldn't their insurance pay for the remaining expenses if any? (They required us to carry renters insurance before we moved into the apartment and we bought insurance as per their specifications). Yes, I'm aware that proving negligence if not easy and it will certainly not be easy in this case as the windows were closed when we left the apartment. The heater was off while we were away, but we have had the heater off for few days before while the windows were closed and the temp was maintained fairly well inside. Also, the building is very old and the other windows in our apartment would leak air when its windy outside. The pipes burst at 2 different places and one of them being near the front entrance of the apartment. I would believe the insurance agents/adjustors/inspectors would inspect the building before making decisions.

    Also, our apartment unit is uninhabitable, but the landlord says its okay to live in there. (no flooring, ceiling torn apart, etc.). They state that renovation would begin within a month, but not sure when it would be completed. However, we re still required to pay monthly rent. Is there an authority that determines the safety of our living situation?

    Also, the landlord casually told us verbally that they are preparing legal paperwork to evict us out of the apartment- on the basis of negligence. As an alternative, they would like us to break the lease. Seems they want us evicted, but they do not have a strong/valid reason until its proven. How long does eviction process take? and what do I need to know about eviction?

    All this hassle of wasting time, energy and resources due to improper building maintenance and pipes bursting. Any input is greatly appreciated.

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  • Richard C.
    Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    My advice is to delete your post, because you just admitted negligence.

    Your statements are a little contradictory.  First you suggest that you weren't negligent by leaving the heater off, because the unit held its temperature fairly well.  Then you list a bunch of reasons why you are not at fault because it is a cold building where there are lots of ways for the pipes to freeze.  You get to have one of those arguments, not both.

    If they want you out, you should offer to leave in exchange for being held harmless for the repairs/damage. See how that goes.

    And next time you rent an apartment and go out of town for a few days, leave the damn heat on.

    1Reply
  • Mike H.
    Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    Why are they being so ridiculous about pursuing a tenant claim? Isn't their insurance going to cover the damage anyway? Seems to make no sense.   The only way it makes sense is if they're trying to come after you to get their deductible paid too. Or maybe they were woefully underinsured or something.

    But the heat thing could be an issue. Its going to likely be real easy for them to check your heating bills to see if the heat was turned down or off. If so, you may actually be liable. The window thing is going to take a witness. 

    But why would you purposefully leave a windo open in your own apt? Wouldnt' that mean some of your own stuff may get damaged? Not even considering water damage. Just extreme cold (i.e. electronics, etc).

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  • Kimberly T.
    Investor · Colorado Springs CO · Member since 2014 · 535 posts · 253 votes
    11y

    I wouldn't be surprised if your lease has language that a minimum temperature must be maintained during the cold months.  If it does, you can absolutely be held liable for damages caused by you leaving the heat off (per your own admission).  And you're claiming that your old building and windows are drafty and let the heat out?  Yeah, why you turned the heat off is beyond me.  This has nothing to do with building maintenance (the heater was functional, after all) and everything to do with your negligence.

    I'm not a lawyer, but you might want to contact one.

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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    You cannot turn the heat off in Philadelphia in the winter no matter how warm it normally stays after a few days. Lease normally has a mimimum heat specified at least ours does. Adjusting the thermostat is the correct thing to do.    It is good you have renter's insurance but if you had the heat off in the months where heat is required Oct to May and the pipes froze good chance you are found responsible.  Not sure what happens about the additional damages above your limit. Call your insurance.

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  • Andy Pat
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    When i referred to the temp being maintained fairly well without heat, I mean a temp of approx 50's-60's (not comfortable to live, but certainly not enough to freeze any water pipe without an additional inciting factor). By air leak through the window, I was referring to cold air blowing inside (not heat escaping). I have even called maintenance twice to resolve that issue, but the window would continue to allow small amounts of cold air to come in through improper fitting. 

    @Mike: Exactly. Who would leave a window open when its freezing outside? We made sure all windows were closed and all appliances unplugged before we left. 

    The lease has no language stating a minimum temp that needs to be maintained during the cold months.

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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    Well our lease has a minimum heat requirement because even when the apartment is warm the space in the walls particularly the outside walls is colder then the interior temperature and people sometimes think like you do.   Basically, If you shut the heat off when it is 50 outside it will stay warmer (drop only to 50) then if you shut it off when it is 0 then the apartment temperature will drop much lower.   Without heat- pipes will freeze because in the wall it is often colder then in your apartment being closer to outside. If you have leaky windows yes it will happen sooner because you are getting to the outside temperature quicker.  Only you know if the window was open but regardless if you turn the heat off for a week the apartment will potentially be cold as the outside unless you are in the middle of the building.  I would accept you are going to have to move quickly and figure out how to get out of this mess. you may need a lawyer. 

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  • Account Closed
    Accountant · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 303 posts · 210 votes
    11y

    https://business.phila.gov/Documents/Licenses/part...

    read

    1Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    11y

    @Account Closed  is there some specific item you're trying to point out in that 20 page document?

    @Andy Pat  if they prove you are liable for the damage, and the damage exceeds your liability insurance amount then you and your roommate will be personally liable for the excess.  If the building owner's insurance policy does pay the owner, that company will turn around and come after you and your insurance company.  I doubt they would pay if they can prove you caused the problem, though, so the building owner would be the one coming after you and your insurance company directly.  You've already stated here that you turned off the heat and that may be all it takes to get a judge to rule in their favor against you.  Turning the heat off during the winter while being gone for a week was a serious error.  You were relying on other units in the building to keep yours warm enough to avoid any damage and that's a really bad bet.  As you've now learned.  Your insurance company will hire a lawyer for you and should pay their fees.  But those fees are going to be part of the $300K limit, too.  This would be a really good time to actually read your policy carefully and see what's covered.  If your copy is caught in the damage, ask your agent for a copy.  I've been there dealing with insurance company adjusters and they have that policy memorized word for word and will be quick to whip out their copy and point out why you're not covered.

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  • Account Closed
    Accountant · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 303 posts · 210 votes
    11y

    just read it all it will answer all of your questions

    0Reply
  • Lynn McGeein
    Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Account Closed 

     I'm not reading 20 pages, but searching for "heat" led to this:

    ? The landlord does not have to supply heat if the dwelling unit is provided with

    separate permanent heating equipment solely under the control of the tenant of

    that apartment

    If that is what you mean, then it only seems to substantiate the landlord's rights.  I feel very sorry for the tenant and hope that their renter's insurance covers them, only they need to read the policy as if they really did turn off their heat in the middle of winter, it might not even cover them, although I'm not a lawyer and wouldn't know legalities, but would think insurance companies would know how to cover themselves for negligence like that.    

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  • Lynn McGeein
    Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Sorry ... reposted

    0Reply
  • Jon Holdman
    Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    just read it all it will answer all of your questions

     Wow.  

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