Broiler stops working and tenant wants a reduction off the months rent

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Broiler stops working and tenant wants a reduction off the months rent

Steve R.
Real Estate Investor · NJ · Member since 2011 · 32 posts · 2 votes

Hello,

I'm looking for thoughts on this situation as I've never had a tenant make this type of request.

The broiler stopped working on his new stove. He contacted me 15 days later

to tell me about the problem. He since told me the oven wasn't working. (The 4 burners are working) A repair man came within a week and ordered the parts and is returning tomorrow. It has been 2 weeks. 

The tenant is asking for "consideration" for "messing up his life" as he cannot cook and has to spend money eating out. 

I send him an email saying if cooking was so important to him why did he wait 15 days to notify me etc. Bottom line I offered him a $50 reduction for the next month to hopefully resolve the matter. I let him move in early and did other small things to get things off on the right foot. He moved in 1 month ago.

  Any thoughts.......What is the legal side to this?

PS not that it matters but this guy makes 150k a year. The condo is in a nice doorman building but not a 5 star building. 

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Randy E.
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y

@Steve R., I think a landlord can go either way on this.  Once notified, you set an appointment with the repair guy, the appliance was inspected and parts ordered, and the appliance will be repaired.  Two weeks is a long time to be without half a stove/oven, but not excessively so.  I think $50 is fine for compensation, but I would make it clear to the tenant that you are doing this out of the generosity of your heart, not out of obligation -- and not to expect such compensation in the future for the failure of other non-emergency wear-and-tear items.  I would also be fine if the landlord refused to agree to compensation.

I am curious about one thing.  I usually put very inexpensive appliances in my rentals.  Paying for two service visits plus a vendor's markup on the parts must have cost you a couple hundred dollars at least.  Any more, and you would be close to paying for the least expensive stove at a big box store.  And for less money, you could have purchased a used stove from a used appliance store.

When it comes to items like stoves and refrigerators, I would rather find a solution that didn't take two weeks from tenant notification to the resolution of the problem.  Yes, you acted on the issue very quickly, but the resolution took longer than I would have been comfortable with.  I don't think the tenant should have to go through extra discomfort because I'm trying to save a few dollars or because I didn't want to find a way to resolve the problem quicker. 

Cheers

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  • Alexander FelicePro Member
    Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    how long from the time he addressed the issue with you until it was resolved? I mean, a week without a stove is an inconvenience but not world ending. 

    I think $50 is plenty fair. 

    Be firm but fair. Some people just want to know how much they can push your or get out of you. 

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    What does your lease say regarding notice of repairs to landlord?? If it says to notify you right away and the tenant did not and waited 15 days then you were not given the opportunity to fix the problem.

    Unless you are in an unruly pro-tenant state a judge would tell the tenant they did not give you the chance to fix.

    I have been in court before and the judge asks the tenant if they have a written notice to landlord for the repair request before they stopped paying rent, or they did the repair themselves, or got someone else at an inflated expensive price.

    If the tenant does not have written proof they gave landlord proper and timely notice and the landlord failed to act then the judge rules against them. I had a judge tell me he has only seen one time in eviction court in 10 years that a tenant gave proper written notice for a repair request.

    Remember at least in my area the landlord and tenant or plaintiff and defendant has to pledge under oath and penalty of perjury that what they are saying and information provided is true and correct. If they lie or provide false documents in court they could go to jail. 

    If this is a strong income tenant with good credit and keeps the place clean and pays on time then this is just a small problem. If your lease does not stipulate timely notice of repairs and the steps tenant needs to give with written notice then you need to get it changed to include that.

    No legal advice given.   

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  • Curtis YoderPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 187 votes
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    This being such a new tenant and making a comment such as "messing up his life" would give me pause. I have had renters before that constantly complained and basically created issues and ask for rent reductions. Timely reporting of any property issues is his / her responsibility and it sounds like you responded as quickly as can be expected. I would have a stern discussion with the tenant and let them know you will not be playing games like this. Good luck. Look forward to hearing the outcome.

    1Reply
  • Jennifer T.Pro Member
    Investor · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 944 votes
    11y

    I actually agree with him that something should be taken off the next month's rent.  However, it should be a token amount...like 5% of the rent with a minimum of $50 and maybe a maximum of $100.

    "Messing up his life"?  Yeeaaahh, okay drama llama.

    As for his income, you really just never know!  I had a former coworker who, although being salaried, made straight time for any OT he worked on our client's project.  And he made well into the 6 figures.  Then we had some corporate training we needed to do.  It only took 30 minutes and was online...but for salaried employees...it had to be done on their own time.

    This guy threw the biggest conniption fit.  He complained to me, complained to our boss, complained to HR.  Tried to argue he wasn't salaried because the number of hours he worked each pay period was listed on paycheck stub.  He probably spent more time trying to get paid for taking the training than it would have taken him to just do the training in the first place, lol.  He even threatened to report the company to the Labor Board.  That last part really took the cake.   

    I don't think he ever followed through with his threat, but man how I would have LOVED to have been on a fly on the wall at the Labor Board when this guy making his healthy salary called to complain about our "forcing him to work without pay".  Hilarious.   

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  • Randy E.
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Steve R., I think a landlord can go either way on this.  Once notified, you set an appointment with the repair guy, the appliance was inspected and parts ordered, and the appliance will be repaired.  Two weeks is a long time to be without half a stove/oven, but not excessively so.  I think $50 is fine for compensation, but I would make it clear to the tenant that you are doing this out of the generosity of your heart, not out of obligation -- and not to expect such compensation in the future for the failure of other non-emergency wear-and-tear items.  I would also be fine if the landlord refused to agree to compensation.

    I am curious about one thing.  I usually put very inexpensive appliances in my rentals.  Paying for two service visits plus a vendor's markup on the parts must have cost you a couple hundred dollars at least.  Any more, and you would be close to paying for the least expensive stove at a big box store.  And for less money, you could have purchased a used stove from a used appliance store.

    When it comes to items like stoves and refrigerators, I would rather find a solution that didn't take two weeks from tenant notification to the resolution of the problem.  Yes, you acted on the issue very quickly, but the resolution took longer than I would have been comfortable with.  I don't think the tenant should have to go through extra discomfort because I'm trying to save a few dollars or because I didn't want to find a way to resolve the problem quicker. 

    Cheers

    3Reply
  • StacyA McBainPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Boise, ID · Member since 2015 · 194 posts · 70 votes
    11y

    I would think that promptly fixing the problem is the solution and that you have gone above in beyond for your tenant. Nicely done. Stuff happens and if you fix it promptly and easily, I don't believe that you owe any consideration (particluarly for a lesser-used function on an oven that took him 15 days to bother reporting and surely didn't cause him real damages). Good will is great to generate with an easy $50, but I'm also hesitant to set any precedence that promotes entitlement. More importantly, I'm reviewing my lease/updating if needed, thank you, @Joel Owens - that is a good idea to ensure timely reporting is included. 

    1Reply
  • David Wurzel
    Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 252 posts · 132 votes
    11y

    @Steve R.

    You are in business, so act like the businessman you are.  You have a contract with your tenant - the lease.   This should make it very clear what the steps are when something needs fixed.  If your tenant did not read this - and most don't - then that's his problem.  You don't go making it up as you go along.

    BTW  I honestly can't remember the last time I used the broiler.  I actually thought this thread had a misprint and that it was going to be boiler.

    2Reply
  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    I had a stove/oven in a unit that was sporadically going out.  I went over 3 times before I could finally confirm which motherboard was fritzing out (this stove had 2).  I ordered the part and when it came in, it was wrong (still not sure if I ordered the wrong one or they shipped the wrong one) so had to reorder.

    The whole thing took about 3 weeks to fix from the time they first made the complaint.  They ended up buying a toaster oven and a hot plate to do some simple cooking on which I paid for half of (about $50) and then I offered them (they did not even make a request) a $200 credit on the next month's rent because of the inconvenience.

    I agree that going without a stove and oven is a pretty major inconvenience - they couldn't cook at all.  Having only the oven go out is less of an inconvenience because entire meals can still be made on a stove top.

    I would give your tenant a credit, but it should be an "inconvenience" credit.  Not a "messing up his life" credit.

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @David Wurzel:

    @Steve R.

    BTW  I honestly can't remember the last time I used the broiler.  I actually thought this thread had a misprint and that it was going to be boiler.

     LOL.  I thought the same thing.  Thought this was gonna be a tenant without heat, not a tenant without the ability to brown the cheese on his lasagna.

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  • Jennifer T.Pro Member
    Investor · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 944 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Linda Weygant:
    Originally posted by @David Wurzel:

    @Steve R.

    BTW  I honestly can't remember the last time I used the broiler.  I actually thought this thread had a misprint and that it was going to be boiler.

     LOL.  I thought the same thing.  Thought this was gonna be a tenant without heat, not a tenant without the ability to brown the cheese on his lasagna.

    I took it to mean the whole oven part, except for the burners on top, was not working.  Not just the broiler function that cooks stuff on the top rack at an extra high heat.

    Yeah, an oven I use a few times a week  The broiler part, rarely.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    11y

    50 bucks is reasonable, so is nothing.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    You're only required to fix things within a reasonable amount of time, even if it's a habitability issue.  If from the time you were notified, you then had to work around a repairman's schedule, that's good enough.

    I also would have given him $50 off his next month's rent.  And I also would have explained that by law, I'm not required to give him anything, but I am willing to give him a $50 credit in good faith.

    People don't have to go out to eat because they don't have an oven.  It will be interesting to see if he's a regular dramatic pain in the butt.

    0Reply
  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    People don't have to go out to eat because they don't have an oven.  It will be interesting to see if he's a regular dramatic pain in the butt.

     Yeah, but you know he's going to be!

    Personally, still struggling to work out why it took two weeks to fix....

    0Reply
  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    The only thing the tenant has a gripe about is the fact that it took your repairman 2 weeks to fix it.  Why so long?

    With that said, good luck dealing with this guy.  The phrase "messing up his life" for an issue like the one outlined is a huge red flag.

    0Reply
  • Steve R.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · NJ · Member since 2011 · 32 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    Thanks for the responses.

    I never received an email alert saying someone has responded to my post.

    I agree, this guy feels entitled and may always be looking to weasel his way to save buck. It won't work after this as I have a low tolerance for people like this and made it clear the $50 was a one time "courtesy". Once I feel someone has taken advantage, I'm done being nice. The stove is under warranty so no cost to me and it took 1 week for the tech to come and 1 week to order the part and return. Update: Friday, the new part was installed  and still not fixed so I got them to give me a new stove which is scheduled for a Thursday installation.

    The same day my tenant said his rent will be paid.

    The late fee kicks in Friday and eviction papers are ready soon after.

    1Reply
  • Matthew Schroeder
    Investor · Carmel, IN · Member since 2014 · 332 posts · 245 votes
    11y

    If you decide to give the tenant any money, you should consider the "precedent" you are setting.

    What if the air conditioning is out for a few days?  Are you going to give the tenant a concession for that?

    What if the the furnace goes out for a period of time?  Will you provide consideration?

    There are a whole host of reasons the tenant could ask for future concessions.

    1Reply
  • Nik S.
    OH · Member since 2014 · 454 posts · 227 votes
    10y

    @Steve R.

    Hey Steve, at one of my (12) unit buildings, the hot water tank went out...the parts took 1 week!!! Talk about ANGRY tenants. There was NOTHING I could do as all local HVAC companies or supply stores could get the part in fast enough (it was around holiday time).... I had multiple tenants calling the Property Manager requesting $100 of their rent for the next month etc... After settling most tenants (no compensation or credits), I had 1 lovely tenant who wouldn't give up...

    What I authorized my PM to do was give the complaining tenant a "late pass". We charge $35 if the rent isn't in by the 5th of each month. I gave her ALL month to pay her rent but she had to give her tentative date of paying. It didn't cost me anything but I guess it made her happy!

    I see that your tenant has a good job so it's quite funny hes asking for $100 off but he's probably just someone who likes to get something when / if he feels he deserves something. I don't blame him for trying.....whether he is persistent in pressing the issue is another story...!

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  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y

    I think 2 weeks is kind of long. Is it an older stove? Most of the time you should be able to get the parts to fix pretty quickly. 

    If it was an older stove may make more sense to just replace.

    All of that said I think you went above and beyond by offering him $50 off. In that situation I would not have given him a monetary concession but would have tried to get it fixed a little quicker.

    Tenants will push you. You give an inch and they take another. Sometimes you have to just say no. They may wine and complain and get mad. Sometimes they are not actually mad they just want to act that way to see if you will give them a concession.

    Be firm. Your not going to loose a lawsuit over something silly like a slow repair on a stove.

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  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    For pete's sake, this was a BROILER that went out (I'm going to assume that the oven worked).  As someone else mentioned, who last used a broiler?   

    He can't cook?  He's got four burners (and again, I'm assuming the oven).  So...how was the guy "damaged" and made to eat out except by his own choice to do so?

    Tenants can be so silly sometimes....

    Gail

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