Tenant won't submit repairs in writing

Joe T. · 2015-08-29T15:20:16-07:00

I'm starting to get annoyed with my first tenant, and as a first time landlord, i'm not sure what to do. A little background information -Tenant moves in and "forgets" to do move in property and condition form. I informed them that it was due within 10 days after move in via email, and in person, and I had written it down on a list of things that they needed to do, additionally, it was in the lease. They played "dumb" and said they didn't know. Tenant then tells me that they need me to "stop by the house to discuss repairs". I tell them that they need to submit all repairs in writing, per the lease. My tenant has again requested that I come by the house to look over some repairs, and informed me that her parents will be there as well. She then tells me that her dad is a home builder of luxury homes, and that she is used to high quality and homes in perfect condition. Again, I told her to submit it in writing to me so that I have a list of things, and I know what to expect. She still has not sent me a list of repairs, and it is getting extremely annoying. The fact that she is planning on having me come by while her parents are there is no good, (she is 36 btw). I know that they are going to argue with me about doing more repairs than are necessary. I had met with her on Friday because she locked herself out of the house, and had to get an extra key from me. This is when she had again asked me to come over and look over some repairs, and mentioned a lot of cosmetic things (very minor scratches etc). What do I do in this situation? I have the Texas Associations of realtors lease, and it covers quite a bit of things, so I know I'm covered. I don't want to be rude with her, but being firm and holding my ground does not seem to be working. I have told her that I will not be visiting her unless she sends me a list of repairs, so I know what to bring with me and what materials i'll need to buy. The thing that still concerns me the most though, is that her parents will be there and I know that this isn't going to end well. Long story short - Tenant won't submit me a list of repairs in writing, wants me to come over while parents are there.

Steve RozenbergPro Member

Specialist · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

First thing I would do is make sure that you are thinking about your business and your liability.

Your rental property is your business and you are held to very high standards and regulations by the law. Just as the tenant is. The only thing you have that spells out what and who is responsible for what is your lease agreement. That is a bi-lateral contract that you have to perform and they have to perform.

If they do not perform per the lease agreement they signed and you do not enforce the lease you can be considered to be the first person to have breached the contract and the judge (And if you are in Houston I can tell you that they are in fact becoming tenant friendly, but I do not know about San Antonio) can dismiss the case because you did not do your part when they did not perform.

My advice no matter what you think or feel, is go by the lease. If you are having issues now it will only get worse if you bend and give in to them because you are setting a precedent to how you run your business.

I always tell owners, tenants have been renting their whole life. We have been land lords a fraction of that time. Who do you think knows the law and how things are done better?

@Account Closed is one of the nicest and sharpest property managers I have ever met and is in San Antonio you may want to talk with him.

1 Reply

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

11y

Stand your ground , the lease is the rule book.

0 Reply

Rich N.Pro Member

Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes

11y

yes, I agree with others. Stand your ground and keep responding to her that she needs to submit in writing. This way dad can not keep piling it on when you get there. Check your state law, sometimes if they do not submit the condition form back in 10 days, it is considered they have accept the unit condition.

0 Reply

Steve Vaughan

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

11y

Nit-picky stuff is one thing. Repairs are another. In writing or not, I am over there in a minute to correct a leak or do something important to protect my property.

Nit-pickers are a little tougher to sniff out than dirt-bags when screening. They will drop hints at initial showings and you'll get better at avoiding them with experience @Joe T..

3 Reply

Joe T.

OP

San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 69 posts · 18 votes

11y

@Steve Rozenberg

Thanks Steve, I agree. I have told her this when she locked herself out of her house and she had the nerve to mention repairs at that time as well. I had to wait for her for 45 mins outside of work because her "phone died".

I will simply not go over to the house unless she submits the repairs, and I'm supposed to go tomorrow. I also found out that they have a trampoline in the backyard, which is not permitted according to the lease. The lease says that they have to remove it from the premises, but it does not say if there are any fines.

As far as the move-in condition form goes, it has been about 16 days so far...

0 Reply

Matthew Cole

Investor · Allen Park, MI · Member since 2014 · 98 posts · 36 votes

11y

You need to make sure she understands who is the owner and who is the tenant. Let her know she is in breach of the lease agreement and give her a notice to quit.

1 Reply

Account Closed

Professional · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 67 votes

11y

Hello Joe and Steve,

Steve thank you for the kind words.

Joe, I would recommend that you respond to her in writing that she needs to put her repair request to you in writing according to her lease agreement. I would send a letter regular mail and certified mail, this way you have a written documentation for your records.

If she has mentioned anything that affects health and safety of an ordinary tenant you will want to jump on that right away regardless if it's in writing or not, but for any cosmetic or normal minor repairs you want it in writing.

A lot of times it's a matter of educating and training the tenants that they need to follow their lease agreement.

Kevin

3 Reply

Arlan Potter

Investor/Accountant/Builder · Meno, OK · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 918 votes

11y

I guess I should have learned that rule(written repair requests) 95 rental units ago.

If someone calls our office with an issue, we ask a lot of questions, write up a check out order, and we go check it out. During the check, we either fix it, or tell them it's no big deal-live with it, or tell them we will put the repairs on a schedule.

Of course, You could make an enemy of your tenant by being an ***(what your tenant is starting to think of you) and treating them like a third class citizen and tell them to complete a three part service request form, submit it on the first tuesday of the month and then fit it into your busy schedule to check out an issue with your property, your ONE rental property.

Come on, lighten up. Go check out your rental. It may be a business, but it is a people business.

3 Reply

Joe T.

OP

San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 69 posts · 18 votes

11y

@Arlan Potter

Would you honestly go to your tenants unit with their parents there so they can discuss "maintenance issues"? I have an idea of what one issue may be, but I still need it to be in writing. If I don't follow my lease by the book, then what's the point of having one to begin with? You can't really pick and choose what to follow, because then it gets out of control. I always believed that the lease was there to protect the tenant from me, and me from the tenant. We both signed a contract, like @Steve Rozenberg stated above, and I expect both of us to follow it.

She has already wasted a significant amount of my time, and I feel that she is trying to be more of my friend than a tenant and our relationship is not heading in the correct direction. This is a business for me, and I would like to keep it as such. That's not to say that I want them to be my enemy, but I do not feel like I am asking anything unreasonable of her. So far she has disregarded several things in the lease, but at least she is paying rent on time.

I don't want my inexperience to get the better of me, and this will be the first stepping stone of my investing career, obviously I'm going to be out of the loop on some things, but I know that this comes with experience and time. Additionally it's hard for people to take me seriously because of my age. I can tell that she does not respect me because of my age and has hinted at it before.

0 Reply

Maggie Tasseron

Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Rich N.:

yes, I agree with others. Stand your ground and keep responding to her that she needs to submit in writing. This way dad can not keep piling it on when you get there. Check your state law, sometimes if they do not submit the condition form back in 10 days, it is considered they have accept the unit condition.

This sounds to me like good advice since he did put in the lease that she had 10 days to return the form. "Forgetting" is not a defense. Question: I've never used this form; is it generally the law that it must be part of the lease agreement?

0 Reply

Tom V.

San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 345 posts · 281 votes

11y

If you expect by the letter adherence to a lease you may be in for a tough time rolling with the punches. You or a property manager should have done a move in check list. It seems silly to get too bent about whether a request is in writing at this point. You can be professional and friendly. I have found the best way to get tenants to lighten up is to let them vent or complain a little. The landlord has to wear the friendly adult big boy pants. Most people will cooperate with you if they don't think you're a jerk.

1 Reply

Maggie Tasseron

Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Matthew Cole:

You need to make sure she understands who is the owner and who is the tenant. Let her know she is in breach of the lease agreement and give her a notice to quit.

I agree! All other facts aside, it sounds like Joe got himself a 36-year-old princess who will cause him nothing but grief.

2 Reply

Arlan Potter

Investor/Accountant/Builder · Meno, OK · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 918 votes

11y

@Joe T.

I understand. You should keep the rules and do your best to maintain a strictly business relationship. I have always been too lenient with my tenants. Has hurt me some(a lot)I'm sure.

It is a business for me as well. But my tenants pay for all my needs, my vacation home, my utilities, my food, my gas, and are paying for my rentals. Buying me a great retirement.

I love them. And if they always pay on time, GREAT.

Keep buying rentals. Each one is an education. Each tenant is an education.

0 Reply

Rich N.Pro Member

Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Tom V.:

If you expect by the letter adherence to a lease you may be in for a tough time rolling with the punches. You or a property manager should have done a move in check list. It seems silly to get too bent about whether a request is in writing at this point. You can be professional and friendly. I have found the best way to get tenants to lighten up is to let them vent or complain a little. The landlord has to wear the friendly adult big boy pants. Most people will cooperate with you if they don't think you're a jerk.

In part you are right, but I think we all are addressing the fact that lil princess wants daddy luxury man to be there.

1 Reply

Maggie Tasseron

Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Arlan Potter:

I guess I should have learned that rule(written repair requests) 95 rental units ago.

If someone calls our office with an issue, we ask a lot of questions, write up a check out order, and we go check it out. During the check, we either fix it, or tell them it's no big deal-live with it, or tell them we will put the repairs on a schedule.

Of course, You could make an enemy of your tenant by being an ***(what your tenant is starting to think of you) and treating them like a third class citizen and tell them to complete a three part service request form, submit it on the first tuesday of the month and then fit it into your busy schedule to check out an issue with your property, your ONE rental property.

Come on, lighten up. Go check out your rental. It may be a business, but it is a people business.

Sorry Arlan, but I couldn't disagree more. This woman is a 36-year-old baby and a card-carrying member of the "Entitled Club". Evidently, her parents never taught her to stand on her own two feet and now that she's not living with them, she intends to make any hapless landlord her new Daddy. BTW, if her real dad is such a bigshot builder, how come he didn't show up to inspect the place before she signed the lease? If she didn't want to fill in the condition report, she shouldn't have signed the lease in the first place and for Joe to set aside his own contract will seal his fate. You are right in assuming this female is starting to think of him as an ***, because that's what she probably thinks about everyone who doesn't dance to her lofty wishes. Get rid of her the easiest and fastest way possible, is my advice.

0 Reply

Jason Woodard

Commercial Lending Analyst · Saint Helens, OR · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 1 vote

11y

Honestly, I think there is not much I can say beyond what others have said beyond this post. That being said, one thing that I PERSONALLY identify is that I sometimes, like you, will try to be the over accommodating landlord. In the right situation, that is the professional thing to do. In THIS scenario, that very same philosophy will cause you to potentially be taken advantage of. Summary advice, visit her when parents ARE NOT PRESENT. This removes unneeded politics from the situation. Second, press the lease on her! You enforce it to the max! It sounds like she made the big mistake of not doing her due diligence and record keeping. Don't make the same sloppy mistakes she did.

1 Reply

Rich N.Pro Member

Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Maggie Tasseron:

Originally posted by @Rich N.:

yes, I agree with others. Stand your ground and keep responding to her that she needs to submit in writing. This way dad can not keep piling it on when you get there. Check your state law, sometimes if they do not submit the condition form back in 10 days, it is considered they have accept the unit condition.

This sounds to me like good advice since he did put in the lease that she had 10 days to return the form. "Forgetting" is not a defense. Question: I've never used this form; is it generally the law that it must be part of the lease agreement?

Not sure about CA, but in MA if you collect a security deposit, it is required to have the checklist as its also required to provide the information where the bank is and the account number.

0 Reply

Joe T.

OP

San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 69 posts · 18 votes

11y

@Arlan Potter

I'm sure that when I get to the same point that you are, I will feel the same way.

But for now, I have to learn the ropes and stick to my guns to make it there in the first place, the less problems and the more professional and stricter I am, the better it will be in the long run. Oh, and I forgot to mention that she is in a 2 year lease, so this problem will not disappear in a year, and it must be addressed now. She moved in August 14.

0 Reply

Tom V.

San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 345 posts · 281 votes

11y

Why does it matter if her parents are present?

Listen, be nice, get paid, have low stress.

Any time I catch myself "proving a point" I realize I am probably doing something wrong.

3 Reply

Rich N.Pro Member

Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes

11y

typically nothing wrong if a parent shows up for the viewing. I have met many relatives and friends when showing the place. The issue at hand here is the tenant signed everything and moved in. Now her dad wants her to setup a meeting to review the repair list. As the OP said, the tenant's dad is a high-end builder....they tend to come in with the attitude that their 36 old princess daughter now should get all the trimmings in a rental......a lot us "feel" and see this coming. I hope we are all wrong. lol

2 Reply

Account Closed

Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes

11y

@Joe T. I don't understand this. By your own admission, she is asking for mostly minor cosmetic things; why not just take care of them for her and thereby create an atmosphere of good will? Why become adversarial? And why does it matter to you if her parents are there? Being a landlord is largely a customer service business. Why be so stingy and unreasonable with your customers? You are the leader, the property owner, the boss. As such, YOU set the tone for all interactions.

I'm always very generous and kind to my tenants. They sometimes ask for things that I might not think are strictly "necessary" but if they ask for it and I'm able to do it: Why not do it? Sometimes I have to say "no" but because I have been good to them all along, they are able to accept it.

When a landlord finds a good tenant, they want to keep them. In the same way, when a tenant finds a good landlord: they want to keep them. Be a good landlord!

1 Reply

Curtis BidwellPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2014 · 777 posts · 744 votes

11y

As a new landlord don't feel compelled to make a decision on the spot, especially with non-contracted guests in the home. I would simply go over the concerns with them, write them down on your tablet, and let them know you'll get back with her in a "reasonable time" to arrange to care for them.

I don't negotiate or discuss issues with those who are not on contract both for my liability and the tenants privacy.

Podcast Guest on Show #95

2 Reply

Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

11y

Almost sounds like a tenant that you might have a hard time making happy. So maybe you need to take a different approach.

A possible conversation:

"The lease requires that your move in issues be presented in writing in a timely manner, but you failed to accomplish that. The lease also requires repair requests to be submitted in writing, and you seem unable to do that as well. As a landlord, I have to follow the lease, and I expect all of my tenants to follow the lease as well. The lease is our agreement, and it seems you are not willing to abide by what was agreed to."

Followed by:

"Maybe you should reconsider living in this house of mine; it seems like we will both be unhappy about the circumstances that are developing."

Even those high end builders aren't perfect - they just have many people convinced that they are ...

5 Reply

Joe T.

OP

San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 69 posts · 18 votes

11y

I'm getting a lot of mixed responses and it seems like there is a fine line between being nice and courteous and being a professional, respectable landlord. I have always been one to abide by any lease that I have signed, and follow correct procedures when requesting things.

I do not want to be rude and unpleasant, but I also do not want to bend over for someone who will not follow simple guidelines that are present in the lease. We both signed it, and that means we both agreed to it. I wouldn't expect anything less of anyone else.

0 Reply

Mary B.

Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes

11y

So its a game of who is more stubborn here. One thing though @Joe T. you were already there at her apartment when she locked herself out, as you stated. Her parents were nowhere around so why didn't you just take a gander at what she was talking about that needed fixing / upgrading and have an adult civilized conversation with her, your tenant, then???

You're the owner and its a rental(non-penthouse style I presume) so the upgrading is likely not going to be approved, next! If there is something that is in need of repair you make note of it yourself and discuss with her the process to follow thereafter. Don't take it personal. Don't think of it as submitting. Normally the landlord is the one that tries to keep the peace....

If there is something in there that is in violation of the law should her verbal notices continuously go unheeded, you could be in more trouble then you bargained for...just to win a stubborn contest.

Kudos,

Mary

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Tenant won't submit repairs in writing

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