Choosing kitchen cabinets and countertops for higher end rental

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Choosing kitchen cabinets and countertops for higher end rental

Amit M.
Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I'm remodeling from the studs a 2BR/1BA unit in San Francisco. Expected rent will be about $3000. Tenant quality here is very high- young college educated white collar professionals. So I'm doing a quality and thoughtful remodel. 

I'm struggling with kitchen cabinet and countertop selections. On one hand I know that clean and modern design is in these days, especially among the young and affluent. My fear with getting cabinets that are 'in style' these days, with a fine lacquer finish (like chocolate brown, or white or gray) is that I'm worried that any imperfection will stand out. I'm used to maple shaker style cabinets, which I feel having a wood grain, can hide minor dents and usage wear better. 

With countertops, I see that white or gray low gloss stone is really in.  But I'm worried that it will show stains like wine, lemon or vinegar. I usually get polished black granite, which contrast nicely with the lighter maple, and also blends in with the stainless appliances. I know the shaker maple with black granite is not the latest style, so I'm thinking I should update on new remodels. OTOH I don't want to buy too "latest and greatest" trendy, because it could look dated in several years.  With good quality tenants kitchens can last 20 years, so I'm trying to be updated and modern, but still conservative or neutral in style so it will work years from now. 

I'd love to hear from rental owners and designers who have had experience with higher end tenants. Should I just get the modern lacquer finish with popular stone countertop and not worry about it?  Or does the maple/black granite have a classic look that should be desireable  years from now?  Appreciate your input.  

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Darren SagerPro Member
Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y

@Amit M. we also only like to use Quartz for custom counter tops in our kitchens because of the maintenance factor.  Higher end clients drink more wine.  It spills.  It stains granite in many cases.    As for cabinets I don't think that brand name will have any impact upon your rents.  What I would be more concerned about is the quality of construction so that you know they're going to last.  Use solid wood doors and plywood frames.  Make sure drawers and doors have a soft close feature as this will also increase the lifetime that the cabinets will last (in addition to protecting kids fingers)

Lastly I would splurge a bit on the back splash.  This is where (in addition to the Quartz) you have have the wow factor that can draw someone in at a low relative cost.  Put nicer tiles in.  Be sure to use Epoxy grout so that the grout will have less of a chance to stain from food flying around (and grease).  

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  • Radhika M.
    Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2014 · 167 posts · 146 votes
    11y

    @Amit M. I am not a designer but have remodeled primary residence couple of times and recently renovated one of the units of our rental that get 2900 rent (2 bed 1.5 bath) in San Jose.

    I think the counters are the easiest. I would use Quartz counters as they won't stain and are very popular right now. You get prefab Quartz counters which are the cost medium grade granite. They are really low a maintenance. I have used it in bathrooms in my own house and the kitchen and bathrooms in the rental with no issues. I think may young people think Granite is old fashioned so I would quartz.

    In regards to the Cabinets if you are worried about the lacquered finish I would keep it shaker but with a dark stain. I think this would stand the test of time. Good luck.

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  • Darren SagerPro Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Amit M. we also only like to use Quartz for custom counter tops in our kitchens because of the maintenance factor.  Higher end clients drink more wine.  It spills.  It stains granite in many cases.    As for cabinets I don't think that brand name will have any impact upon your rents.  What I would be more concerned about is the quality of construction so that you know they're going to last.  Use solid wood doors and plywood frames.  Make sure drawers and doors have a soft close feature as this will also increase the lifetime that the cabinets will last (in addition to protecting kids fingers)

    Lastly I would splurge a bit on the back splash.  This is where (in addition to the Quartz) you have have the wow factor that can draw someone in at a low relative cost.  Put nicer tiles in.  Be sure to use Epoxy grout so that the grout will have less of a chance to stain from food flying around (and grease).  

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  • Marina Shlomov
    Investor/Property Manager · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2014 · 93 posts · 40 votes
    11y

    Let me preface my comments by saying that we are licensed builders and desginers and do around 30 remodels a year of rental properties in all price points as well as build high end homes (in addition to our property management business) and we are from the South, which might make a difference to the comments and design suggestions.

    With that being said, we have used granite for over 15 years in new construction as well as our remodels and it has never stained, chipped or cracked. Concrete counters are very popular in many young affluent households and I think are just as sturdy if you don't get too fancy with the inlays. 

    I'd use natural wood cabinets (solid with long handles or shaker style/ painted or natural) just because they never go out of style and in case of abuse, are less expensive to replace/repair. As a landlord, we have to be practical first and foremost. There are quite a few cabinets that can be installed to make the kitchen look upscale without spending an exorbitant amount of money. Back splashed make a big difference and I'd go with the nicer tiles/stones and go for a more classic look. Again, you wouldn't want your design to go out of style in a few years, so trendy options should be used sparingly.

    Hope that helps.

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  • Johann Jells
    Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    11y

    Piling on to the "go classic" crowd, though I'm partial to midtone shaker and black or "brown and tan" granite.  I've seen too much stained lighter color granite. Dark looks really good with real or porcelain slate colored backsplash.

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  • Devan Johnson
    Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 15 votes
    11y

    Here's my last project, using polished concrete with glass aggregate

    My plan going forward is to use a similar design for rentals. Total cost for these counters was $250. 

    Hope that helps.

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  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Devan Johnson -- $250? holy sh*t (obviously you're talking DIY, but still...)

    I've been fascinated by concrete for a long while but haven't had an opportunity to experiment with it. What's your process on these?

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  • Amit M.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    hey everyone, thanks for your input!

    Right now I'm leaning towards quartz counters in a lighter color. Possibly whitish with gray streaks. Also will go with shaker style cabs. Solid word/plywood construction definitely. 

    Still not sure about the cabinet color though. My considerations are as follows: the space is an open kit/DR/LR that is not really big. Kitchen is L shaped, so there will be a good size 3x8 slab as an eat in counter. Which is why I'm thinking of lighter counters, so they don't totally dominate the room. I'm also thinking white cabinet color. I've seen these a lot recently with the lighter countertops and it does look good. I'm thinking it will help the room balance, given the small space I'm working with. 

    My floors are old growth Douglas fir that I'm refinishing. They have an orange-honey with blond streaks look that is really cool (the bldg is 100 years old, so the original subfloor is old growth fir.)  given that, I could go with maple color caninets, as they compliment the floor nicely. The problem if I go maple is that I think the white counters make the kitchen look anemic and bland. I'd want mor  color in the counters to stand out from the maple. 

    Once I'm further along I'll probably decide between maple and white cabs. I like the idea of white but I'm just not used to putting painted cabs in a rental. Are they easy to touch up if there is a nick or scratch?  My gut says that natural maple hides imperfections better, but I may be wrong. 

    Any input on painted cabs in rentals and their maintenance would be appreciated. Thanks. 

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  • Devan Johnson
    Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2015 · 24 posts · 15 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jean Bolger:

    @Devan Johnson -- $250? holy sh*t (obviously you're talking DIY, but still...)

    I've been fascinated by concrete for a long while but haven't had an opportunity to experiment with it. What's your process on these?

     I should probably qualify my $250 quote as materials only. Tools and forms add extra, but still cheaper. I could go into a lot of detail but here's some info to get started.  Tons of online info out there. 

    http://www.concretenetwork.com/outdoor-kitchens/gl...

    http://www.howtomakeconcretecountertops.com/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNmJr7cQlkQ

    Here's my last kitchen remodel, briefly shows my concrete counters being made:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPCNTYohMIc (skip to 3:30)

    I've installed in both cheap rentals and million dollar show homes. (as a contractor, not as an investor).

    PM me if you want more info, as I don't want to hijack this thread ;)

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  • Marshall Downs
    Investor · Benton Harbor, MI · Member since 2013 · 257 posts · 140 votes
    11y

    Amit, we're developing a 22 unit condo project now and I am working with the designer on kitchens and and baths. The building theme is "Industrial Chic" which incorporates some contemporary elements with the more industrial feel of the building. 

    Our cabinet palette is all shaker and white, espresso, gray, clear maple and antique white. What I have found is the complementary colors of the walls, floors and countertops can make all the difference in style. We're achieving a modern feel with maple shakers and gray tops and the hardware makes a huge difference. The cleaner lines of the cabinet can carry various themes. Shakers seem fairly timeless.

    Best of luck

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  • Elizabeth O.
    Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 22 posts · 10 votes
    11y

    I want to warn against using white quartz countertops. I just installed some Caesarstone Blizzard (almost pure white) and it stains with tomato sauce or wine. In a previous kitchen this spring we put a light gray mottled quartz (Cambria Waverton) which was much better about not showing stains. It was paired with white painted shaker cabinets and our realtor said it was very popular with the SF crowd. Many comments about the kitchen being light and pleasant.

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  • Amit M.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Elizabeth O. yeah, that is exactly the cab/counter I had in mind!  And I was thinking exactly that- how could red wine or some reddish vinegar not stain that?  As I'm dealing with a rental, I need to avoid that possibility. The gray is an option and I know it's popular. It does provide more of a contrast, which can be nice, but I need to see if it'll work with my orange-blond Douglas fir stained floors. 

    Are you using that for a rental (nice stove for rental!). I'm still torn between light maple and white cabs. Worried about dings and scratches on the painted surface showing up more than the natural wood though. Thoughts?

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  • Elizabeth O.
    Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 22 posts · 10 votes
    11y

    @Amit M. The white shaker kitchen in the picture was for sale, not a rental. The cabinet designer I used said that white shaker is the most popular cabinet he sells in SF, and I only had to take care of it for a few months, so I wasn't concerned about dings. I'm pretty sure the maple would absorb abuse better. Even though it's not as hip, I think the light maple with a light gray quartz counter would look good if you put modern hardware on it. Attaching an example that I think would work.

    Also, have you checked out the quartz counter slabs they sell at East Star building supply? I just got a quartz counter from there for $218! If your contractor can cut stone counters, it's worth considering. I chose one of the lighter ones, but they have lots of colors.

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  • George P.
    Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    HGTV mentions "quarts" 5 to 6 times every 48 mins,  so you should jump on that train right away. 

    get glossy cabinets,  they are easier to clean. 

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  • Amit M.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @George P. but for a rental when they ding and wear around the edges from hand use, won't that show up more than natural wood?  Then it's hard to hide it, unless you replace/reprint the entire door. I'm thinking with maple, you just clean it, and if the finish is worn, just apply a bit of clear coat. Anyone with expertise with this?

    @Elizabeth O. thanks from providing that pic- that floor is similar to mine, and that's the first pic I have seen with the maple/gray combined on that floor finish. So thanks!

    And yes, I'm looking at east star. But TBH, I'm not wild about their cheap maple cabs (too much color variations on the doors). I like the basic maple cabs at L&T (on bayshore) more. 

    Any other local place you can recommend for maple inexpensive cabs?  Most of the Chinese vendors I've seen aren't that great. 

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  • Elizabeth O.
    Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 22 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    @Amit M. I agree that the ready-to-assemble wood cabinets from the Chinese vendors do tend to have quite a bit of grain and color variation, but I'm amazed at the price for solid wood with plywood boxes. I also just finished a kitchen from Ikea, and during my hours waiting in line there found that many of the other people were buying for their rental houses. I don't imagine the particle board boxes would hold up to renters, but the cabinets do look good. Other places I've shopped for cheap cabinets are Liberty Home Supply (on Caesar Chavez) and Discount Builder's Supply (by DBI), but I can't remember how good the natural maple looked - I was looking for natural cherry at the time. Thank you for the L&T recommendation - will check them out!

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  • Byron Bohlsen
    Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2015 · 173 posts · 53 votes
    10y

    Thread is a little old now, but I am curious from California investors what stores they recommend for cabinets, counters, flooring etc. I may be getting involved in a rehab in the Mill Valley area.

    Thanks! 

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  • Byron Bohlsen
    Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2015 · 173 posts · 53 votes
    10y

    Also if you have design/material ideas regarding what is hot in that area right now would be appreciated!

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