Tenant is lying and looking to swindle me

Tenant is lying and looking to swindle me

Real Estate Investor 路 State College , PA 路 Member since 2009 路 594 posts 路 173 votes

A couple of month ago, a tenant I have had for 2 years told me her freezer would not always seal when she closed it.  I went to the house and even though the fridge was only 3 years old, I told her i would swap out the fridge mainly to keep her happy.

Being busy, I told her I would be there with the new fridge but was unable to make it.  This occurred again.  If felt bad and said I would without fail be there on the following Wednesday or her next months rent was free.  These had been communicated in phone texts.  On the following Wednesday I did not have my handcart with me, I live about 3 hours from the house.  I called her and said I could be there if need be but would rather make the due date that Friday.  She said no problem.  On Friday I gave her the new fridge and left.  She never mentioned anything about the no rent for the month.  She had sent me a text on that Thursday about discussing her rent discount with a LOL appended to the end.

Today I texted her, asking if she had sent out my Nov rent, she  said no.  Was not going to because I had not deliverd the fridge on the date I had texted her.  I thought she was kidding.  She was not.  She followed up with a fabricated conversation, where her boyfriend overheard my saying, no rent was needed, when i delivered the fridge.  So I know she is playing me.

Where to go from here.  My thoughts.

I have been in court several times before for non-paying tenants.  I have listened to many tenants cry about this not working, on and on.  As we all know.  Judges I have seen take the position, if you don't want to live there, move.  While you live there pay rent.

Although I made the claim, She gave no consideration, in the legal sense.  I did not say, move in and I will do this.  Mine was more in the form of a one sided gift.  

I would expect the judge not to clearly determine what was agreed to, since some was texted and some was in phone conversation.  It is unreasonable expect you would not have to not pay rent over an intermittent fridge seal, that was fixed 2days past an agreed due date.  Plus I was in contact with her throughout that week.  Showing a notable effort to correct the problem.

I would like BPs thoughts.


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Investor 路 Canton, GA 路 Member since 2014 路 727 posts 路 500 votes
10y
Dude, you stepped in your own p@@p! If you say something, you do it.
See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Investor 路 State College , PA 路 Member since 2009 路 594 posts 路 173 votes
    10y

    @Jacqueline Carrington

    Sorry I am not that good with BP and including previous posts. I had put in the  org post

    I called her and said I could be there if need be but would rather make the due date that Friday. She said no problem. 

    So my allow me to elaborate,  "Her saying no problem" meant exactly that.  No problem for her or me.

  • Investor 路 Miami, FL 路 Member since 2014 路 82 posts 路 19 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed I think bigger pockets giving you a hard time hoping they would be on your side...well frankly to say kick that tramp out!!! This sound like something your tenant is very familiar with!!! 馃憤

  • Real Estate Investor 路 State College , PA 路 Member since 2009 路 594 posts 路 173 votes
    10y

    @Jacqueline Carrington

    I could say well we just did not communicate effectively on the phone.  The problem is she texted me I told her and her boyfriend no nov rent when I gave her the fridge.  I never said that, thus she is lying and we did communicate correctly in the phone.

  • Investor 路 Franklin, MA 路 Member since 2015 路 47 posts 路 22 votes
    10y

    I'm confused as to what you are confused about . You made a verbal agreement and the tenant took your word . No matter what else you say transpired, you said you'd do something, so do it . I can't imagine why you would think anyone would support you breaking your word. We all make mistakes, some more expensive than others. I think this isn't too expensive a lesson but expensive enough to be a lesson. I like to think of people on a forum like this as being an ethical bunch......

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire 路 Northeast, TN 路 Member since 2015 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Did i mention the tenant agreed to have the fridge being delivered on Friday and that she would still pay me rent, then lied about it :)

     Actually, your original post doesn't say anything about that. You said that you couldn't make it on Wednesday because you didn't have the cart but could if absolutely necessary otherwise you would just do it Friday and the tenant said no problem, and that nothing was mentioned about the rent at all in that conversation. I don't believe that conversation would even take place like that - you saying "I will come Friday and you will still pay rent" and the tenant said "Yes, Friday is fine and I will still pay rent" because it sounds like BS. What I think happened is that you made the remark not believing the tenant would take you seriously, kind of like "I'm gonna kill you" isn't literal unless you are Jeffrey Dahmer, and you figured you met the obligation by just making other arrangements (again), and the tenant saw it otherwise. I honestly think you should consider it a learning experience and learn from it instead of demonizing the tenant, who may be a get over but frankly is probably right here. Why not ask the tenant to split the difference? Were they reasonable tenants before you made a ridiculous offer and then failed to meet your obligations?

    Skyline Properties
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  • Real Estate Investor 路 State College , PA 路 Member since 2009 路 594 posts 路 173 votes
    10y

    The truth is the $800 bucks is nothing to me.  I am just mad because she is trying to pull a fast one.  Given, I gave her a new fridge when the older on was not even that bad.  Was only 3 years old.   Did it really just to keep her happy.

  • Investor 路 Yuma, AZ 路 Member since 2015 路 27 posts 路 20 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Joe Calderon:
    Originally posted by @Virginia H.:

    Off topic, ... forgive me ... But does everyone provide refrigerators with rentals? 

     It is the landlord's responsibility to provide habitability for the tenant.

    It is at the landlords discretion. I provide fridges for all my units. It won't necassarily give you more rent but it does make it more marketable. 

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor 路 Sarasota, FL 路 Member since 2008 路 17k+ posts 路 17k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I would like BPs thoughts.

    You don't want BP's thoughts -- you just want people to make you feel like you are doing the right thing.  But, as should be evidenced by this thread, that's not going to happen.  Regardless of the legal implications of what you did, the ethical implications are clear:  you made a promise with a concession for not keeping the promise, then you didn't keep the promise and don't want to give the concession.

    If you want a legal opinion, go ask a lawyer.

    But, you said you wanted our opinions, and we've given them to you.  Why can't you just say THANK YOU and accept that every single opinion is contrary to yours...and that when every single opinion is contrary to yours, you might want to reconsider your opinion.

    Anyway, since you asked for our thoughts, here's one more -- if you were naive enough to make a promise to a tenant, and then not keep that promise (regardless of the minor details), you shouldn't be in this business.  I would recommend either hiring a professional property management company or get out of the landlord business.  The fact that you can't recognize that what you did was wrong simply means that you'll end up in this situation again in the future...

  • Real Estate Investor 路 State College , PA 路 Member since 2009 路 594 posts 路 173 votes
    10y

    @jd m

    @JD Martin

    Not sure I follow your response, but I will not pander with a tenant who lies about conversations in an attempt  to swindle me out of money.  

  • Real Estate Investor 路 State College , PA 路 Member since 2009 路 594 posts 路 173 votes
    10y

    Sorry J.  I just dont think having a conversation with a tenant and them agreeing to something different than was initially discussed is a minor detail. But your right, this has run its course.  Thanks all.

  • Urbana, IL 路 Member since 2012 路 1k+ posts 路 425 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed

    I think you might need to look at this as future costs. You can run the risk of fighting the tenant and going to court which is likely to well exceed the cost of rent you would receive as well as the mental capacity you've already spent on this issue if you lose (which by this thread most are in agreement that you are on the losing side) You'd also lose the tenant and have to make necessary repairs, marketing, and showings for the next tenant. You can also just let this go as an expensive lesson learned. 

  • Investor 路 indianapolis , IN 路 Member since 2015 路 3 posts 路 0 votes
    10y

    Im sorry labrie, but i believe that you will end up paying much more than the 800usd if you dont come through on your initial documented agreement. I hope you keep us posted on what you ultimately decide. I have learnt from this situation and for that i thank you.

  • Real Estate Agent 路 Charleston, SC 路 Member since 2013 路 424 posts 路 99 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    So I should do the right thing and give  my tenant a free months rent after she agreed to take on Friday and then lied about that conversation ever taking place.  In addition saying her boyfriend heard me saying you dont have to pay rent for November, during my delivery of the fridge.  Even when I never told her that.  Sorry that does not make sense to me.  She knew I did not deliver the fridge on Wednesday because she said Friday would not be a problem. 

     Sorry, but you did say you told her via text. So calling her a list because this conversation never happened is making you look arrogant. Sounds like you should pick up a PM company or you won't be a landlord for long. Judges and jury are going to favor the tenant usually. Your case just makes you look even worse. I don't think you could find a lawyer to touch this unless you're paying a hefty retainer to compensate for the poor guy knowing he's gonna lose. 

    I really don't feel bad for you, either. You put yourself into this situation, failed to deliver multiple times, and now you want help worming your way out of it. Shame on you. Expect to see you in the landlord hall of shame soon with all honesty. You pretend as if you're tenants time is of no value. 

    If "need be"? Yeah, need be. Need be the first time, the second time, and now the third. You mistake the tenants agreement to let you deliver as Friday as a waiver of your promise to deliver or else - What did you expect? 

    Seek consultation elsewhere. You won't find anyone to help you out of this one, not here. Again, shame on you for even bringing this up. 

  • Real Estate Investor 路 State College , PA 路 Member since 2009 路 594 posts 路 173 votes
    10y

    Jason I have had significant success in real estate and life.  Over past 7 years I have been part of 75 plus  transactions and helped provide many people with good homes.  Bought run down homes on the court steps and made them desirable, functional homes  Under my company employed over 20 guys.  Spread a lot of money around.  Flipped in the 6 million dolled range of property and made over 2 million in profits, while working full time as an electrical engineer.   Have had many tenants over the years without incident. I certainly don't need to worm my way of any situation and  have nothing to prove or defend to you or anyone else on this site.   

  • Real Estate Broker 路 Hartsville, SC 路 Member since 2015 路 174 posts 路 69 votes
    10y

    My opinion on the matter, since you asked for opinions:

    By your post, you broke your promise to your tenant 3 times with the last including a free rent concesion. If on wednesday, there was no direct negotiation about the month being free, then you are obligated to keep your promise, morally anyway. Maybe you can weasel out of it legally somehow, but that isn't honorable. "No problem" doesn't mean, "No problem, and dont worry about the free month of rent you owe me either"

    However, If on wednesday, she specifically told you that she was going to pay rent despite your failure to keep your end of the bargain, then you miscommunicated in your OP, and everyone in this thread is under the impression that you're trying to backtrack because you made a bad deal that you don't want to keep.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor 路 Narragansett, RI 路 Member since 2013 路 8k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
    10y

    I agree with the previous posters. Also keep in mind what you say may not be the same as what people hear.  She said .. "No problem" about what?  Her BF may have heard your first statement and told her she should hold you to it.  However only you and she know what happened and you will do what you were going to do anyway  before you asked us.

    Just a  thought it probably would have been cheaper and better for your business to just have the fridge replaced by an appliance store.   Just saying.. since you were replacing in the first place.

  • Covington, GA 路 Member since 2015 路 99 posts 路 33 votes
    10y

    "I will let you know how it turns out."

    No, don't.

  • Contractor/Realtor/Property Manager 路 Baltimore, MD 路 Member since 2015 路 73 posts 路 42 votes
    10y
    I think we've all learned a valuable lesson....schedule delivery with Home Depot or some other store so you can't get caught without a hand truck and have to live up to poorly thought out promises to tenants. This thread is comical. Needed a good laugh today!
  • Investor 路 Mobile, AL 路 Member since 2015 路 66 posts 路 21 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mike Arias:
    Originally posted by @Joe Calderon:
    Originally posted by @Virginia H.:

    Off topic, ... forgive me ... But does everyone provide refrigerators with rentals? 

     It is the landlord's responsibility to provide habitability for the tenant.

    It is at the landlords discretion. I provide fridges for all my units. It won't necassarily give you more rent but it does make it more marketable. 

     I agree about the marketability.  However, at the Housing Authority, where I work, I am just tired of them being stolen.

  • HVAC mechanic 路 Philadelphia, PA 路 Member since 2015 路 241 posts 路 57 votes
    10y

    It sucks, BUT, she has your text and all you have is a phone conversation that can't be proven. I think Judge Judy would give his one to her

  • Investor 路 Philadelphia, PA 路 Member since 2015 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    10y

    Wow this was great fun to read. Too bad the OP closed his account!

  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA 路 Arvada, CO 路 Member since 2015 路 2k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Max T.:

    Wow this was great fun to read. Too bad the OP closed his account!

    Was thinking the same thing.

    If this had been me and I was on my way to the tenant's house with a fridge, realized I left my hand truck 2.5 hours back at home, I'd be pulling into the nearest store and buying another one rather than going back on my promise one more time, particularly with a month's worth of rent on the line.  

    I can't tell you how many screwdrivers, hammers, wrenches, buckets, reels of plumbers tape, reels of electrical tape, saw blades, drills, flashlights, etc I have now because I left that one component back home.  While those are not a $200 appliance dolly, I'd still fork that over with a kick in the butt to myself before I'd turn around and drive 2.5 hours back home again only to have to drive another 6 later to do it all over again.

    Feel kinda bad that OP felt so beat up over this that he felt the need to delete his account.  I don't think that people were even all that harsh at first.  It wasn't until he refused to see any other point of view than his own that people started treating him a little rough.

  • Real Estate Investor 路 Columbia, MD 路 Member since 2014 路 172 posts 路 94 votes
    10y
    As a lawyer, I disagree with giving the tenant a month worth of free rent. As soon as the tenant agreed that you could come on Friday, a new "agreement" was established. She could have said that she wanted the refrigerator that day and then if you did not comply with that, she would be due the month worth of rent. However, you asked her if you can come on Friday and she agreed, hence, she's out of luck.
  • Investor 路 Corona, CA 路 Member since 2014 路 746 posts 路 372 votes
    10y

    I'm sorry but LOL @ the original poster deleting his account.

  • Real Estate Investor 路 Lansdowne, PA 路 Member since 2013 路 1k+ posts 路 656 votes
    10y

    @Sandra Holt Yet the OP is the one that broke the agreement of which the free month's rent was attached to with a counter and immediately initiated another in its place. The agreement wasn't a free month's rent if he didn't bring a replacement refrigerator at all, by or before month's end. My thoughts are who broke the agreement with which the barter was attached to? The OP did and should pay the cost. No legal advice here of course, just my coin. 

    :-) Shame Mr. LaBrie left totally. I've seen people not returning to the thread they've started but closing the BP account out was a bit extra. Apologies if I offended as it was not my intentions. Guess I can unfollow huh, lol

    Kudos,

    Mary

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