Hillside, NJ · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 27 votes
I read an article claiming that the Kitchen and Bathrooms on rentals should be the two places that should really grab your potential tenants attention.
I would like some advice or misconceptions on this, if youve heard this or believe it.
Like, whats the best color to use, or one piece standup showers vs bathtubs, or colored tiles, appliances, cabinets.
If you have a streamlined system or a formula that always yields good results, would you mind sharing it with a beginner investor?
Developer · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 898 votes
10y
@Kevin Izquierdo Updated kitchens and baths sure wow the tenants, but it should be in keeping with the area. If you over improve, you will not get your money out.
You mentioned stand up showers, something to consider if your rentals are only one (1) bath units, you will likely need a tub for families.
I am for the middle of the road tenants, so my units have stained wood kitchen cabinets, stainless steel appliances (not much more than white or black) and granite counter tops. The granite is much more than formica, but everything else is just a bit more than the cheap stuff. For bathrooms, I use wood vanities with one-piece tops, acrylic tubs and tile surrounds. I personally hate plastic tub surrounds, so I avoid the.
I will say, going neutral is your best bet. I paint all my rentals the same, so touch ups are easy. I only use three (3) different paints on the inside (wall, trim, ceiling).
Developer · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 898 votes
10y
@Kevin Izquierdo Updated kitchens and baths sure wow the tenants, but it should be in keeping with the area. If you over improve, you will not get your money out.
You mentioned stand up showers, something to consider if your rentals are only one (1) bath units, you will likely need a tub for families.
I am for the middle of the road tenants, so my units have stained wood kitchen cabinets, stainless steel appliances (not much more than white or black) and granite counter tops. The granite is much more than formica, but everything else is just a bit more than the cheap stuff. For bathrooms, I use wood vanities with one-piece tops, acrylic tubs and tile surrounds. I personally hate plastic tub surrounds, so I avoid the.
I will say, going neutral is your best bet. I paint all my rentals the same, so touch ups are easy. I only use three (3) different paints on the inside (wall, trim, ceiling).
Hillside, NJ · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 27 votes
10y
@Mike Wood very good points! Exactly the information I was asking. I sometimes think I'm overthinking the whole rehabing thing for my first investment. Ill definitely try and keep my thinking black and white to avoid getting myself into financial trouble.
How would I find out what my area calls for? Do I ask other homeowners or investors?
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
You may find that tenants think they want stainless steel appliances (that's what the popular TV shows promote) until they find out they are harder to keep looking nice. Our tenants want white appliances and so do we, so that is our standard.
You may find that tenants want hardwood floors, but often are not willing to do the upkeep to preserve them and prevent scratches. We started using luxury vinyl plank floors that look like hardwood but are much more durable. That is our new standard. We use carpet however in the bedrooms. In a few of our historic homes we refinished the hardwood floors in the living room, hallway, and bedrooms and keep those original.
For tubs and surrounds, we prefer a porcelain or ceramic covered steel tubs or fiberglass. The choice depends on the age of the house and what is in place. For all, we prefer tiling the tub surround with 6 inch square white ceramic tiles.
For counter tops, laminate is our standard. We may consider something else at some point, but for now that works well.
We too have a few standard paint colors/sheens for exterior siding, exterior trim, interior walls, interior trim, interior ceilings.
Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 106 posts · 66 votes
10y
Kevin Izquierdo it this a fix and flip or rental? If it's a rental I have a great video on my main profile here that gives a great model.
If for a flip I can say that you are correct in the fact that kitchen and bath are the main points. But as a picky millennial myself, I can also tell you that the master bed closet is a huge selling point as well.
Developer · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 898 votes
10y
@Kevin Izquierdo With regard to our question about what your area calls for, spend some time checking out local Craigslist or Postlets add for properties in your direct area. Most landlords put up pics now a days, and the ones that dont, likely are pretty shabby and not something you want to compare to. Realtor.com (MLS listings) has rentals, and my be used more in your area than mine (only high end rentals usually show up on the MLS around me).
Manhattan, NY · Member since 2015 · 109 posts · 27 votes
10y
You are correct, people always look at the areas where they will be dining and doing their hygiene first as opposed to the bedrooms. This is a very important factor, but do not go overboard with the rehab.
Cary, NC · Member since 2015 · 99 posts · 38 votes
10y
For the kitchen, have you considered concrete countertops? These can be cast to made to look like granite for a fraction of the cost. They are a little more than formica but if done correctly, can add a good bang for your buck.
Also consider simply refacing your cabinets. New doors and hardware. Or even installing wood veneer tape over the existing cabinets can make them "new" and more modern for much less than installing new ones.
I also agree with @Marcia Maynard, stainless sounds nice and flashy until you own one and have to struggle to keep it clean and looking nice. Opt for white high quality appliances.
Hillside, NJ · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 27 votes
10y
@Marcia Maynard Thanks so much for the advice! I keep hearing good things about that vinyl plank flooring, I cant wait to give them a shot! Interesting point on the Stainless Steel appliances, I imagine it would be the opposite, that White appliances would stain more since they are white and white always shows stains. Do you go with premixed paint as well?
@Carl Dean I read an article from Remax or Credit.com (cant remember), but the article explained how it would be a wise decision to turn a dining room into another bedroom or something to raise value (another bedroom, closet, or bathroom) since families rarely use dining rooms anymore. What is your experience with millennials Carl?
Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 106 posts · 66 votes
10y
@Kevin Izquierdo I would strongly advise against making a dining room a bedroom. The location is typically close to the kitchen and wouldn't be ideal for a bedroom. In my opinion this would almost be functional obsolescence and drive away buyers because they would want to convert back. Most millennialis a don't have large families but still want fairly large homes. Also I don't think the home would appraise for anything higher after converting.
Hillside, NJ · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 27 votes
10y
@Ralph Hunter I have seen those concrete ones and I love them, but I'm not entirely sure if tenants would like them since they are uncommon in my area. I was debating on either getting Quartz or concrete ( concrete I'd do it myself which would save me $).
I've never refaced cabinets, but I'm sure it cant be that hard. Nonetheless its a very good idea.
Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 106 posts · 66 votes
10y
@Kevin Izquierdo don't put to much though into th countertops. You should be able to get the uba tuba granite (neutral popular color) for $32 a ft installed. If it's a rental I would just glaze them like I do (see that video on my profile). As for the cabinets, if you need to freshen them up I would do a light sand and a gel stain that's dark. Works like a charm.
Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 106 posts · 66 votes
10y
@Kevin Izquierdo and by "to much thought" I only mean don't over think it or spend time to prove out things that some people may not like. It's better and more time efficient to go with a proven and popular remedy vs. testing out concrete. Those concrete countertops are also high maintenance moving forward with how they need to be kept up and re sealed every year or so.
Hillside, NJ · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 27 votes
10y
@Carl Dean You're definitely right, I do feel like I'm overthinking this whole thing. I need to get into the habit of pinching myself whenever I get too carried away. This would be my first property so I can't deny that it is very emotional.
Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 106 posts · 66 votes
10y
@Kevin Izquierdo rule #1 in real estate investing. Don't get personally attached to any asset based on your personal preference. It's hard to do when you first start, but stick to what works and minimize all potential risks. Getting to attached can turn an investor into a gambler.
Manhattan, NY · Member since 2015 · 109 posts · 27 votes
10y
@Kevin IzquierdoI do agree with the notion of transforming a dining area into a bedroom for increased profits ,but it will not always work. It all depends on the size of this extra bedroom, and then you have to hope the tenants don't mind the lack of a dining area as well. Its a coin flip.
I also get emotional about my rentals. But I'm getting better. Here's a small kitchen I just did - painted the original cabinets, replaced the countertops with quartz, new sink and faucet, put new base cabinets, new microwave and painted the kitchen.
Hillside, NJ · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 27 votes
10y
@Janice R. wow great job! I was never a fan of white since it shows a lot of stains, but they came out amazing. Have you had any issues cleaning white cabinets or appliances?Any issues with the dishwasher? leaks? maintenance?
I did white because I didn't want to replace all the cabinets, just wanted to add new base cabinets on the other side of the kitchen. White was the only way to do it. Time will tell if it's a good decision!
White appliances are easier to clean (and cheaper) than stainless in my experience. Other than the microwave, the appliances are about 6 years old. "Magic Eraser" (Mr. Clean) and lots of elbow grease, in and out, works. There hasn't been any leaks in the dishwasher yet. But you never know.
@Kevin Izquierdo rule #1 in real estate investing. Don't get personally attached to any asset based on your personal preference. It's hard to do when you first start, but stick to what works and minimize all potential risks. Getting to attached can turn an investor into a gambler.
Quoted for truth right here.
It's so easy when you're new at this to keep making the house into what you'd want to live in, and spend way more than you should. Both rentals and flips are about wise uses of capital.
Hell, I still find myself doing it sometimes. My primary business is a remodeling company - I can start thinking about all the cool stuff we could do to a place and then I realize I've pushed the budget up 15-20% more than I needed to, and talk myself down.
Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2012 · 289 posts · 151 votes
10y
The supplies for concrete counter tops are cheap, but it's fairly labor intensive. If you do it yourself, it's cheaper than paying someone for granite. But it's a lot of time and energy. I did it for my own house, but would not consider it for a rental unlessI've reached the point that I've quit my day job and have completely different time/value calculations.
+1 for luxury vinyl plank.
I'm considering doing a dining room to bedroom conversion for my next project. This type of remodel is only useful in certain types of neighborhoods, mainly ones with lots of older 2/1 with a premium for 3/2 or 3/1s. Additionally the sqft has to be big enough to start off with. (> 1000sqft) My last purchase had this type of conversion done by a previous owner. I'm not actually a fan of the layout, but we didn't even notice the lack of dining the first time we looked at the property. (It dawned on me later that night)
To me it only makes sense as part of a larger remodel project, though, where the kitchen needs to be get ripped out anyway. Most likely, you're not actually converting the dining room into a bedroom. You'll probably be using the space where the kitchen currently is as the new bedroom (with sewer and water possibly in place for the en suite), and then converting the dining room/living room into an open concept kitchen, dining, and living area. Yeah, people do make direct dining room to bedroom conversions, but I have yet to see one that I actually thought added value to the house.