Tenant Nightmare - new tenant with gun on bedside - please advise

Tenant Nightmare - new tenant with gun on bedside - please advise

Investor · Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 6 votes

Hi All,

I'm an investor renting out a property in Northern Virginia. I have a tenant problem - please help with your advice.

Here's the story - this large house is currently rented to a group of 5 tenants (2 of whom are brothers) on a lease expiring in July 2016. I found out today that the tenants violated the lease and moved a 6th person in to live at the house without notifying me. I was at the house to conduct a repair (having given notice of my coming), and found that the 6th bedroom was now obviously occupied. The new roommate's mail was on the floor, multiple letters with a name I had never heard before and my rental property's address under the name of each letter. Further, an opened notice from the DMV in this tenant's name related to driving under the influence of alcohol was on the floor, and an unsecured Smith and Wesson handgun was sitting on the bedside table. This stuff was all laying out there for anyone to see... I didn't go through anything.

I specifically explained to the leader of this group of young working-professional tenants (who is amazingly, a young realtor) that the county we live in only permits up to 4 unrelated people to live in a house, and that I was allowing 5 because it was ok with the county, since 2 of them are related by blood. The lease clearly states that any new tenant must be added to the lease only by written agreement. So I am very surprised by this deception, which has apparently been going on for at least a couple of months.

I am wondering how I should deal with this situation. Four months are left on the lease. I hold a security deposit of $3200 on the tenants. I do not want a confrontation with the tenants, although I am willing to do so if necessary.

There is one complicating factor. The last tenants (before the current group) violated the lease in the same way, which is why I was so clear to the current group that we cannot have this situation. In our county having more than 4 unrelated people living in a home is a violation of housing ordinances. In the prior case, a county government housing inspector visited when a neighbor reported the situation of too many cars parked on the street, and found that too many unrelated people were living in the house. I got in trouble and the tenants almost got kicked out of the house early. I managed to fight off the county in court and to let the lease finish. However I had to sign an agreement promising the county that no more than four unrelated people would be there in future leases. So I feel that if this issue comes out I will get in more serious trouble with the county... and may be heavily fined, etc.

On the other hand I'm just not sure what will happen if I confront the tenants. Who is this guy who leaves the gun lying on his bedside? I am not going to go over to the house to confront them. I am not sure if I will say anything at all... maybe I will just let the lease finish and then withhold some of the security deposit (can I normally do that in this situation, claiming that the illegal 6th tenant increased wear and tear?). I feel like I should do something.

I have taken photos and documented everything I found to prove that a 6th tenant is living there. Incidentally, I found that the tenants also violated the lease by bringing in a large dog without asking me, something which the lease explicitly says requires notification and a deposit. That is annoying but a smaller issue than the 6th tenant.

I have generally had a good relationship with these tenants, until now.

What would you do?

Matthew

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Sandown, NH · Member since 2014 · 110 posts · 44 votes
10y
I would notify them of the lease violation and demand they correct within the timeframe allowed by your state laws. If they don't, I would initiate the eviction process and follow through if they don't correct by the deadline. That way, if the county catches you, you can show documentation that you took action to the best of your ability base on the law. It also sends a message to your 'good' tenants that they must respect the lease.
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  • Investor · Katy, TX · Member since 2015 · 32 posts · 19 votes
    10y

    You can't be afraid to manage people. Success is a contact sport so as many have already said, paper trail ( question to all - should this be a certified letter?) and then a follow up conversation with the lead tenant to get the new guy out.

    The tenants probably just feel like its not a big deal - enough bedrooms to go around etc..

    Good luck.

  • Investor · Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    I'm not afraid to manage people. I have managed about 20 different tenants and am usually quite direct and clear about things. It's just that in this case I don't want to deal with the hassle if it's only a few months left on the lease.

  • Investor · Mountain View, CA · Member since 2014 · 120 posts · 51 votes
    10y

    oops, double post...

  • Investor · Mountain View, CA · Member since 2014 · 120 posts · 51 votes
    10y

    I'm with @Renee R. start the paper trail immediately to show your compliance. If it wasn't bothering you at all, you wouldn't have come here for advice.

  • Investor · Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    It does bother me; it's just a question of how bad will the consequences be if I don't do anything. And the answer is, probably not very. And that is why I agree with several people above who suggested letting it go considering the short time left on the lease.

  • Manassas, VA · Member since 2016 · 74 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    Matthew, it is up to you, but outside of the ethical element of being an aboveboard landlord, Fairfax County refers to their zoning enforcement officials as the "Strike Team". That county does not play. Can you update, please? Hoping all is going well for you!

  • Investor · Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    The zoning enforcement Strike TEam must not be living up to their name then, because I know several people in different houses in Northern Virginia whose groups are violating the occupancy regulations. And no, I'm not going to tell the county about those groups; these are my friends who are trying to survive.

    And about my situation, I have dealt with it in a way that protects my investment partner and I from liability, and I'm not going to say much more. Whether or not the extra tenant is still there (which I don't know for sure), it is too late now for the "Strike Team" to do anything about it anyway. My partner and I know how to challenge a ruling in court and drag out the process of appeals so that it doesn't affect the current lease. This situation is not our fault anyway.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Matthew S. I'm curious, what repair were you conducting when you just happened to notice a gun on a dresser in the extra bedroom, and the mail that showed the name and address on the mail, and not only that, but the details of a DMV notice to the person regarding a DUI?

    Um, sounds to me like you were SERIOUSLY snooping.

    However, what you can do is give them a 3 day notice to cure or quit, or whatever that version is in VA. Telling them they must get the occupants to the approved amount, or move within whatever your state's parameters are.

    That will cover your rear with the local govt.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    How would the current tenants not know that you know of a 6th person living there? You were in the house so they have to know you know. I think its a mistake to let things slide. 

    And I've never had a gun pulled on me. That's definitely not the norm.

  • Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 52 votes
    10y

    In Texas, we expect to see guns on the dresser. 

  • Investor · Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Fair enough Doug :) But it is not something we are used to here.

    Dawn, of course they know; they are probably lying about who is now living in the house, and I cannot absolutely prove what they are doing, so with 3 months left on the lease I am letting it go. In other words, they have recently admitted that 6 people are living there, but have also said that 3 out of 6 tenants are related by blood, which is legal in the county - and provided a new name and ID of a related person I am pretty sure is not actually living at the property, rather than the person whose name was on mail left easily visible on the floor when I visited - even though I'm almost certain this is false. This stuff is hard to prove or disprove. At this point it doesn't matter because no one is being seriously hurt by this situation with a few months left. I have done what I can and frankly I'm not motivated to do anything more with these tenants. I will move on and try to do better at managing future tenants.

    To Sue, what repair I was conducting was my own business. But leaving mail lying on the floor right at the entrance of the house with the 6th illegal tenant's name (and the house address in question) written on it, and then more such mail at the entrance to their bedroom, is not the smartest way to conceal their presence from the landlord, let's just say. So it looks like you were SERIOUSLY wrong about my snooping, since it was all left there for anyone to stumble over. It is my job to try to keep the house in line with regulations, although with these tenants, I've just about had enough.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    The only issue is the 6th tenant. Lease or not he is your tenant and you are in violation of county codes. If they were to find out they will hang you out to dry and rightly so. This would be your second defiance of the law and you would be 100% responsible as the landlord. 

    Personally my priority is always enforcement of my lease otherwise it would be a waste of my time to bother having a lease.  As a responsible landlord and business owner I never allow any tenant to violate our contract. Any landlord that does is irresponsible and negligent in the operation of their business. They are not operating a business they simply have a Mom and Pop hobby income.

    You should rethink whether you are qualified to be in this business and responsible enough to operate a rental income property if you are knowingly going to violate code and allow tenants to control your business. You appear on the surface to be a lazy landlord.

  • Investor · Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Greg,

    I think you are misunderstanding the issue slightly.

    I have issued formal letters stating that I believe they are in violation of the statutes and asking them to cure the problem if so. They have come back with saying that the 6th person living there is related to two of the others, and have provided valid IDs (and if so, this would indeed be legal and not in violation of our laws). I don't have absolutely proof that what they're saying is false; the mail for the other guy could be for someone who no longer lives there.

    At this point, I can't definitively prove that they're lying. To prove anything about who the actual 6th person is who's living there currently, I'd have to set up video surveillance or someone watching the house in the mornings, or make an unannounced visit. Why would I do that with 3 months left on the lease... or why anyway?

    It's easy to say what someone else should do; not always so easy in practice.

  • Investor · King of Prussia, PA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 339 votes
    10y

    @Matthew S. Interesting predicament. Well, the tenants broke the lease on many fronts. What does your lease states as a consequence? Is it immediate eviction? Loss of security deposit? etc. Stick to the contract written on the lease signed by you & your tenants. Use it when you address the issues/violations. WRT your safety & security, go there with a friend. Notify family and friends where you are going and why(address/reasons/names). 

    Lastly, if you want to avoid confrontation, seek out legal advice/assistance. 

  • Attorney · Winchester, VA · Member since 2015 · 726 posts · 387 votes
    10y

    I'm spotting more legal issues than people have actually commented on so far. Worst case scenario? I could see you landing in jail for a few years. Likelihood of that happening? Pretty darn low (abysmal really), but it a non-zero risk. We attorneys get pretty imaginative because we see the worst case scenario quite often. If you haven't already consulted both a Criminal Defense attorney and a Landlord/Tenant attorney, I would highly recommend doing so. The landlord/tenant attorney can advise you on what problems you may run into down the line with code enforcement or even a lawsuit from your tenants, while the criminal defense attorney could inform you of the worst case scenario I am envisioning based on the information provided. 

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    So you screened and approved the 6th person or as a landlord you do not bother to screen.

    You are right it is not easy being a landlord that is why most people are not cut out for it.

    Your intention is to terminate their lease at the end of three months rather than act appropriately and enforce your lease. As a landlord you are responsible for taking action the day you find a violation. Your position is to do nothing and let lease violations run their course. Three, four, eight months what ever it takes. The length of the lease is irrelevant, they are in violation and as a landlord you choose not to enforce your lease. That is you choice just not how I operate my business. I would have served official notice and expected immediate action on the part of the tenant to legally protect myself from the county and evict if they made it necessary. 

  • Investor · Vienna, VA · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Greg, I've already done more with these tenants than most landlords would; we can't all live up to ideal landlord standards.

    Matthew, you must be very imaginative indeed. But I highly doubt you'll be getting a call from me to retain you.

    Guys, thanks for your advice and time but I'm going to let this thread go at this point. I appreciate all who commented.

  • Attorney · Winchester, VA · Member since 2015 · 726 posts · 387 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Matthew S.:

    Matthew, you must be very imaginative indeed. But I highly doubt you'll be getting a call from me to retain you.

    I understand, I wasn't trying to solicit your business since I don't even service Fairfax. I was genuinely concerned based on the facts that you presented. You're welcome to ignore my learned advice on seeking out attorneys on this matter, as (like I said) the chances of you facing criminal charges are extremely remote (but possible). Good luck on your case, and I hope the worst imaginable scenario does not come to fruition. 

  • William MorganPro Member
    Fix & Flip or Hold · San Luis Obispo, CA · Member since 2012 · 136 posts · 63 votes
    10y

    Does your lease allow you to raise the rent if a pet or extra person moves in?  If not you may want to consider that adding that capability in the future.  You can probably have the lease stipulate an exorbitant increase when a person or pet not already on the lease moves in even while at the same time disallowing a 5th unrelated person -all lessees being joint and severably liable.

    This will create a large financial disincentive to violating the lease (and the law) while also giving you recourse should it occur.

  • Investor · Gaithersburg, MD · Member since 2013 · 660 posts · 441 votes
    10y

    I find it funny that all these people just post to say the gun is a non-issue.  Yes, we get it, Constitution and all.  Under normal circumstances, I'd 100% agree it's a non-issue.

    Focus on the issue, not the gun.  He has discovered a 6th tenant and he has no idea who this person is.  He doesn't know if he is a felon, or anything because he didn't get a chance to do a credit or background check.  Not knowing who this person is living in his property, perhaps the gun concerns him.  Just as someone has the right to own a gun, he has the right to be scared when someone he doesn't know has one on his property.

    This 6th person doesn't have the right to live in his property and that's the whole point.  Whether he's concerned about the gun or not is a non-issue.  My advice would be to send a letter to the tenants saying you noticed there was an unauthorized person living there.

    If him being there violates something with the county, you have to inform him that he needs to move out immediately as he's violating county law.  If the county finds out you did nothing about it, you're in trouble and I would not accept that risk.

    If having him there doesn't violate the county law, I would send them a form for the tenant to fill out so you can do your checks.  If he passes the check, have him sign the lease.  If not, request he move out.  If they are good tenants and pay on time, I personally wouldn't even bother charging for the new tenant, just the $30 or whatever for the checks. Having 5 versus 6 tenants isn't probably going to make a difference on wear and tear, so I'd just say, do the check, have him sign the lease, and problem solved.

    As a side note, this is why I use PM's.  They do it and I never have to visit or interact with the tenants.  Sure you give up 10% of the rent, but it sounds like you wish you had a PM to do all this for you right about now :)

  • Investor · Suffield, CT · Member since 2012 · 94 posts · 25 votes
    10y

    @Matthew S. I agree with most of the advise. Here is some advise for future headaches, I have in my leases that when a person who is not on the lease starts living in the apartment, I will need to do a background check and an additional $300 will be increased per month in the rent. I did this because in my state (Connecticut) a person who stays for more than a certain amount of time (sorry forgot) becomes part of the lease. Thus, if the person "has" to stay then he or she has to go through the same process as everyone else (fair housing right?). If they do not comply then you can evict them. Your post is almost a month old so I hope that thinks worked out for you.

  • Bend, OR · Member since 2011 · 14 posts · 9 votes
    10y

    As the others have said, notify them of the violation in writing.   You can't evict because of the gun (regardless how careless they are I guess), but if they've violated other terms you are well within your rights to ask them to move.  IMHO though, if there's only a few months left on the lease I would just ride it out and not renew it.  As far as the dog, hopefully you have something in your lease to cover the damages.  At a minimum you'll have extra cleaning to do since they let a pet in there and that will come off their deposit.  Fortunately, that'll all happen after they move out, so the risk of confrontation for returning little or none of their deposit won't be so uncomfortable and can be done by mail.

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