Which dog breeds are violent?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Which dog breeds are violent?

Eddy Dumire
Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 246 posts · 83 votes

I'm considering allowing dogs and cats in my newest listing and need a little guidance from the community.  I've never really owned a dog, though I have had cats.  We just put brand new carpet in the house in addition to repainting.  We're still on the fence about refinishing the floors.  If I want to control some of the potential damage, which dogs should I refrain from renting to?  When people have asked, I've generally said no very large breeds and no violent breeds.  A guy just called and asked about a german shepherd.  I know they can be trained to attack, but does the by definition make them a violent breed?  A Chihuahua could be trained to attack too.

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Frank Gucciardo
Highland, NY · Member since 2013 · 169 posts · 130 votes
10y

No dog is inherently violent unless they are raised to be violent.  It really depends on the owner and your screening process.  Honestly, anyone who raises a dog to be violent would likely not be a good tenant.

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  • Frank Gucciardo
    Highland, NY · Member since 2013 · 169 posts · 130 votes
    10y

    No dog is inherently violent unless they are raised to be violent.  It really depends on the owner and your screening process.  Honestly, anyone who raises a dog to be violent would likely not be a good tenant.

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  • Eddy Dumire
    OP
    Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 246 posts · 83 votes
    10y

    @Frank Gucciardo I'm sure you're right about that, but how can I tell in a 5 minute interview of a tenant whether or not they've raised their dog to be violent?

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  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    GSD are great animals when trained well. I have one myself. They do have a natural "gift" for protecting their pack/territory. If they are not well trained an exercised regularly this gift can get out of hand.

    Be wary of the renter with the GSD puppy. 

    Less to worry about if the dog is mature and the tenant has good references from previous landlord(S).

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  • Eddy Dumire
    OP
    Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 246 posts · 83 votes
    10y

    @Max T. excellent point about the puppy vs adult and the landlord reference. 

    I do check references and I'm shocked that more of us don't.  I think that may be my best indicator by far of this specific dog's behavior.

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  • David Hedges
    Investor · Crown Point, IN · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 84 votes
    10y

    @Eddy Dumire any breed of dog can be violent, it really all depends on how the owner takes care of them and trains them. 

    if your concerned about the potential damage from pets, you can do one or a combination of these:

    1. charge an additional deposit to allow the pet (along with security deposit)

    2. charge a slightly higher rent (ex. additional $30/mo )

    3. only allow pets under a certain weight

    4. don't allow pets at all

    I'd typically lean more toward no pets at all, but I've made exceptions in cases where the flooring was at a point where I was debating on replacing or not. 

    you also need to pay attention to people with pets as some will scratch or chew on doors, walls, cabinets, and other things. this goes beyond just dogs and cats too, so I'd at the very least take a deposit for any pet. 

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  • Edward B.
    Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 980 posts · 823 votes
    10y

    I disagree. Some breeds are inherently more protective and aggressive than others. They view the world differently and react differently to things they perceive as transgressions in their space. Insurance companies are all about the numbers and that is why they frown on certain breeds, because they are statistically more likely to have an "issue". So you see the common breeds like rotties, Dobermans, pitbulls, but you will also see other very protective breeds on these lists such as Chows and Akidas.

    I am a large dog owner and tend to allow large dogs in my properties, of all kinds. If my insurance company said no, though, then it is no. Sometimes the PM doesn't like to deal with it either. I actually prefer large dog tenants than small dogs. Maybe I am biased. I have a tenant that has a Rottweiler in fact. And that property happens to be in Stafford, VA as well. They have been a long time tenant and I have not had any issues with them or their dog.

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  • Eddy Dumire
    OP
    Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 246 posts · 83 votes
    10y

    Thanks for the feedback everyone.

    @David Hedges I definitely charge a pet deposit in addition to my security deposit.  The last time it came up, I charged $350.  I make my pet deposits refundable.  I see it as further incentive to keep their pet under control.

    @Edward B. Do you include German Shepherds in your list of more protective/violent breeds?

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  • David Leffel
    North Liberty, IN · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 10 votes
    10y
    Your insurance policy will have a list of excluded breeds I was talking with a property manager the other day and she requires a statement of non aggression from a vet for all dogs.
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  • Edward B.
    Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 980 posts · 823 votes
    10y

    @Eddy Dumire, it is not my list. Those are examples of the breeds that I have seen on lists by insurance companies, HOAs, PMs, etc. and it is not all inclusive. I have seen German Shepherds on those types of lists before, though. The concern is any large breed that is protective by nature or bred to be protective. The bottom line is that the dog doesn't know the kid is just trying to get his ball back, all he knows is that the human being is trespassing on his assigned territory, or a possible threat to his pack.

    The best place to start in my opinion is to ask your insurance company what their policy is. If they don't have any restrictions then you should at least be covered if there is a problem.

    And for what it is worth, I usually defer to my property managers and what the specific market dictates but in general I prefer pet rent maybe even combined with a non refundable deposit. Like I said I am a pet owner and that choice comes with consequences. I can't travel anywhere without figuring out what to do with the dog, generally paying someone or someplace to take care of him. And I would also gladly pay a little more to get into a quality place vice being arbitrarily excluded from consideration. As a landlord, and pet owner as well, though, I know that pets are harder on the property in terms of normal wear and tear so it isn't just out right damage that you need to be worried about. You will have higher cleaning costs and be replacing flooring etc, more frequently with pets. So charging more is perfectly acceptable to me and even the right thing to do. If the potential tenant has an issue with that, maybe they aren't the right tenant for you.

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  • Eddy Dumire
    OP
    Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 246 posts · 83 votes
    10y

    Thanks everyone for your feedback.  You've given me some very solid guidance.

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  • Penny ClarkPro Member
    Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes
    10y

    @eddy dumire, allowing pets is understandable since roughly 40 percent of potential renters own them. However, before you allow cats or dogs have a pet policy in place and put this in your ad, your criteria, and in your lease. 

    For Dogs:

    Only allow adult (specify number), non-aggressive breeds (no pits, chows, German Shepherds, Dobermans, or any other breed that gets bad press). Your insurance carrier will provide you a list of breeds it won't allow. You'll also want to up your liability coverage to at least $500k because even non-aggressive breeds bite when provoked regardless of training or certification. If you have a fenced yard, a definite plus.

    For Cats:

    Adult cats only(specify number). Problem with cats are claws and they like high places. Imagine the damage they can do to blinds, curtains, carpets, water lines. The upside is, most insurance companies don't care about aggressive cats. 

    For Both Cats and Dogs:

    - Require alteration of animals and ask for a copy of certificates. You don't want your tenant's animals to breed on your property. Also, unneutered Tom cats will spray your new carpets and you'll have to strip the entire thing to get the smell out.

    - Require all animals be registered and vaccinated. You'd be surprised how many dog and cat owners neglect to vaccinate their pets for rabies.

    Hope this helps!

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    You've already been given great advice here, but I will add one thing: as a person who loves dogs, and allows them in certain units, I think you made a mistake putting carpets in a unit that you will allow dogs. Even the cleanest dogs have oils in their skin and hair, and all carpet will eventually smell of animals in houses that have animals, no matter if they have "accidents" or not. 

    I don't have any units with carpeting - this is by design - but if I did, I would not allow pets in that unit. 

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  • Alexander FelicePro Member
    Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    certain dog breeds are inherently violent just as certain human breeds are inherently violent  #SARCASM

    99% of people raise their dogs like family. The violent dogs are victims of violent owners or victims of forced violent lifestyles. If you rent to good people, they will have good dogs.

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  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Eddy Dumire I think you could just get a list of restricted breeds from your insurance company.  

    I'd also require the animal be neutered/spayed. Not only to keep them from being aggressive, but to keep dogs away from the property if a female is in heat, or have one that's not neutered run off and get somebody's poodle preggers.

    I'd also require renter's insurance with a rider for the dog, if there is such a thing.

    Ironically, the only breed that has ever attacked dogs of mine, all different types of terriers of around 20 pounds, have been german shepherds. Three different dogs of mine, bitten by GSDs.  One was barking at one, the other two were minding their own business and the GSD came at us and attacked and we weren't on their property, etc.

    We also had a sweet female black lab that out of the blue attacked my ex's friend and bit his hand.

    So, you just never know.

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  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Penny don't be too surprised, I believe we have had two cases of cat rabbies reported in the last 17 years here in Oregon. But it certainly makes someone money to wind people up
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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed  I got a GSD when i lived in Napa post Polly Clas  I travelled a lot.. and there is no question no stranger would get into our house .

    my GSD was also not dog friendly if any of us were near her or had her on  a lead. 

    but if I took her to doggie day care and was not there she was fine.

    they defiantly are protective of the owner.. Smart loyal etc. and many times not dog friendly.

    as it relates to rentals.. CATS do far more damage than dogs if they are not super well behaved.. no getting that cat pee odor out.. ask anyone who has bought foreclsoures or rehabs.. or hoarder houses.. LOL 

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  • Michell P.
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 153 posts · 105 votes
    10y

    @Eddy Dumire

    I agree with others to check out your insurance first.  

    We also have a pet addendum that requires both cats & dogs to be spayed / neutered and that the tenant agrees there will be no breeding of animals in the units.  Animals have to have updated registration as well and have their vaccinations.  

    Our pet policy says we have to meet the animal.  Regardless of breed, the dog should be calm and friendly.  They may be overwhelmed and a little ADD, which is fine, but when you put out your hand and say their name, they should acknowledge you and sniff in your direction even if they're too ADD to come to you.  

    A dog who immediately starts barking uncontrollably, or desperately pulling at the leash, or running off ignoring both you and the owner is a dog that still needs training and maybe isn't what you want in your home. 

    I wouldn't decline a german shepherd that was calm and older, but might decline a young one if I felt the owner didn't have a good handle of it.  Young dogs can be brutal on a rental.  They've been known to eat the floors, eat the walls, chew the doors, bust through doors, tear out screen doors / windows, dig up your garden...

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  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    I believe you may be far to specific in regards to your concerne about dog breeds. You need to be concerned about damage to your property as well. Ant animal, dog or cat, with claws, teeth and ever needs to go to the bathroom will damage, possibly destroy your property. Dog claws regardless of the size of the dog will destroy hard wood floors. Cats will claw door frames, cupboards, walls you name it. Dogs and cats will both urinate on your new carpets for many different reasons.

    When your tenants leave you will have dog or cat smell and considerable damage that a pet deposit, or even a regular damage deposit, may not even come close to covering.  

    If you allow pets you are acknowledging that there will very likely be damage. Whether a tenants dog will maul their neighbours child or not is only one concern. It is defiantly more important if you have a multi unit. Less so if it is a SFH.

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  • Lynn McGeein
    Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    We've updated our pet policy over the last few years and it is working well so far.  We do not allow cats as we are one of those who have had to renovate a cat-spray house.  Never again.  

    For dogs, we do not restrict by size and actually prefer larger breeds as we've found people with smaller breeds tend to let them "go" in the house.  We have a list of restricted breeds (and any mix of that restricted breed) that we got from our insurance company.  We now require:  Vet records showing breed, age (no puppies), and current vaccinations, current city license if required, renter's liability policy with minimum of $100K with us as additional insured, AKC Canine Good Citizen Certificate for out-of-state property manager properties, personal dog interview for self-managed, and 1.5 months' security deposit versus approx. 1 month we used to charge, all refundable so they have incentive to keep unit in great shape.   It's in our lease that dog listed is only dog allowed, no pet-sitting, no "guest" pets, and I or proper city department or business has the right to immediately remove any animal I find on premises or yard that is not specifically listed in lease.  I have so far not had to enforce that clause, but it's in there as I want to stress the point.    

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Michell P.  my gsd puppy did all of the above including running into and shattering sliding glass door. 

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  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes
    10y

    @Eddy Dumire I just wrote about dog breeds on a different thread yesterday.  Ultimately you'll make your own decision about how to proceed but know that everyone has an opinion based on their experiences.  For example, I'm a responsible pit bull owner.  Humfrey is over 10 years old now and I've had him since he was a 7 week old puppy.  I won't say that he's never damaged anything, but it hasn't been anything that couldn't be repaired or replaced at a minimum expense (e.g. hollow core door, spackle and re-paint window sill).

    Based on his comments here and in other threads about pets, Greg S. clearly is anti-pet and wants his opinion to be known.  I don't know what his presumably negative experience was, but ultimately, just as with human tenants, thorough screening can make your life a lot easier.  And just as with human tenants, even good ones can sometimes go bad.  People and dogs are unpredictable that way.  

    Renting to responsible pet owners can ultimately be a net win for pet-friendly landlords, especially if they screen well and pet-proof their units.  (I wouldn't put carpet in a pet-friendly unit, for example.)  Not only can you receive higher rents, but you will probably also have longer-term tenants.  In my experience, responsible pet owners make responsible tenants.  

    Regarding insurance:  Not every insurer participates in breed discrimination.  I have State Farm and they don't have breed restrictions.  Even if I didn't have a pit bull, I probably would not choose an insurer that participates in breed discrimination because it hurts many more responsible pet owners than it does the handful of irresponsible ones. 

    That said, I DO require all my tenants to have renter's insurance for liability reasons.  And I carry an umbrella insurance policy.  

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  • Scott Weaner
    Rental Property Investor · Yardley, PA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 561 votes
    10y

    100 pound shepherd/rottweiler mixes.

    Ask me how I know. :-( 

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  • Michell P.
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 153 posts · 105 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Michell P.  my gsd puppy did all of the above including running into and shattering sliding glass door. 

    haha, and I thought my aussie was bad for eating the kitchen's vinyl floor.  My neighbor's pig ran through their living room window.  Ignored the broken glass and just kept going.

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  • Kevin M.
    Specialist · Missoula, MT · Member since 2016 · 73 posts · 44 votes
    10y

    I don't think there is such a thing as "violent" breeds. It is solely the responsibility of the owner on how they train their dog and their relationship with the dog.

    Some people treat dogs (and any pet) as a sub-entity. Like a slave. Or their personal hired security guard. Meaning they can do what ever they want and fetch the dog to do their bullying and assault.

    You can go down the internet list but the question you should ask is "Which breeds are capable of vicious or "violent" assault.

    Example: I have a friend who has 2 female Pitbulls and one male German Shepard/Pitbull Mix. They are sweethearts even though they all hump the crap out of each other. I think he is the Pimp and the 2 females are the "Ladies". My point is these dogs are fully capable of biting my face off and wrestling with them they "yes" could kill me. They have HUGE jaw muscles. I don't think I would not rent to them. Unless....

    I think he got a SFR because the neighborhood he lives, is down the street from his parents. And his family has lived there for years. The SFR also has a fully fenced yard.

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  • Kevin M.
    Specialist · Missoula, MT · Member since 2016 · 73 posts · 44 votes
    10y

    Sentence correction; " I probably would not rent to him. Unless his parents lived down the street."

    But I would do what people said here about insurance. There is no way like you said to determine someones character in a 5 minute interview for an apartment.

    They say in the dating world people can put on an act for approximately 90 days before the real them comes out.

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