questionable landlord practices

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questionable landlord practices

Tim Wilkinson
Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes

Hello BP,

Although I am an investor, currently the home my wife and I live in is leased to us. As part of the lease agreement, the LL retained one of our three attached garages unavailable to us. It is all open inside, but we are not allowed to use the third bay. 

Since we moved in eight months ago, we get frequent requests to get things out of the garage that belong to the owner. There is a legal clause called "quiet enjoyment" that speaks of our right to be left alone. I don't appreciate the frequency with which she comes over unannounced. 

Secondly, she mows the grass weekly and makes a big deal if we missed a pile of dog droppings in our yard. We clean it regularly, but she will leave a high spot in the grass and put sticks to mark it, then call us and let us know. 

She can see our house from her house and calls us when we leave a garage light on at night. I also just put in my window A/C units and she called to say she doesn't like how one of them is installed. She micromanages everything and it feels like prison!

Shortly after we moved in, I noticed that one of the forced hot water baseboard units was cold. I verified it was air-locked and bled it until it worked. She chastised me and said she would rather me not make any repairs, that she would call a professional. 

I have been in the trades my whole life, a General Contractor, and thought she was crazy to not allow me to save her a service call. 

That isn't as exhaustive a list as it could be, but I would like to know what you folks think I should do about it. Should I have an attorney draw up a complaint? Go to the Housing authority? She is an employee of the town I live in. Aside from being a lot OCD, she is okay to get along with. 

One other thing: We were three days late with last months rent because my wife's company was bought and her payroll frequency changed. She called my wife and asked her to provide proof from her employer that this happened. Now I say WTF?

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Max T.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y

As a tenant you have every right to move to another apartment, or better yet, buy your own place.

Your landlord is a micromanager, thats it - the only real issue here is her not giving you proper notice. If she calls you when a light is on let it go to voicemail. If she comes over without proper notice send her away. 

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  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    Also, she usually calls before she comes to get stuff out of the garage, but it is way too often. I am under the impression that there should be 24 hours notice for a visit and only for legitimate things. 

    0Reply
  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    1. Proper notice should be outlined in the lease - 24 hours is pretty standard. Feel free to let her know that she needs to give you that much notice the next time she calls saying she is on her way.

    2. She's doing you a favor by asking for proof of the late payment issue. Most rental providers would just hit you with the late fee.

    3. As long as she does give you proper notice she can come get stuff from that garage as much as she wants. Its hers.

    4. Shes mowing your lawn for you. You should make sure there is no animal waste on the ground prior to her coming over (another reason to hold her to the proper notice).

    5. If she wants to hire professional subs for maintenance jobs then let her. That is her right as a property owner. It is a liability to have tenants perform maintenance on behalf of the owner. There is a lot written on BP about that. Same for your air conditioners - If she doesn't like how you set it up then have her hire a handyman. 

    6. What prison does this feel like to you? My impression - real prison is a lot worse!

    1Reply
  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    Thanks@Max T.

    It is illegal in MA to charge late fees until rent is 30 days late, however they can evict at one day late. 

    We don't get any warning about the lawn. She just shows up on random days to do it. 

    Are you really inferring she has the right to make us feel as if we have no privacy (i.e calling us to tell us we left a light on, frequent trips to get things from her garage which has our personal belongings all over the place)?

    We have a right to privacy, this much I know. I don't know where the line is drawn, but all I know is I have never felt this way as a tenant. 

    When I say it feels like prison, I mean I can't fart without her commenting. This does not seem like a landlord that respects others privacy. 

    0Reply
  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    As a tenant you have every right to move to another apartment, or better yet, buy your own place.

    Your landlord is a micromanager, thats it - the only real issue here is her not giving you proper notice. If she calls you when a light is on let it go to voicemail. If she comes over without proper notice send her away. 

    4Reply
  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    I even sent her a letter 30 days in regarding our right to quiet enjoyment. I don't think she knows what it means. She is definitely a nuisance landlord. $2,350/month for this hell...yikes

    0Reply
  • Jeff Rabinowitz
    Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Tim Wilkinson, how much time is remaining on your lease? If it was a year lease it should only be a few more months. If you are not happy with living at that house try having a talk with the landlord. Offer to leave at an agreed upon time if there will not be a penalty for terminating the lease early. If you are not happy with the landlord there is a good chance she is not happy with you either and will be happy to let you go. If she insists on a penalty for breaking the lease make sure you insist on proper notice when she comes over, including mowing the lawn. Proper notice should be defined in the lease. 

    If you are truly miserable living at that house you should be looking for another place to live whether you come to an agreement with the landlord or not. Life is too short to live in conditions that you find intolerable.

    1Reply
  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    @Jeff Rabinowitz we really love the house and the town. It cost us a lot to move here and saves my wife from the 2 hour commute each way she used to have. 

    I would prefer to work things out. I just was curious if what she was doing is legal and what, if anything, we could do to make it work. 

    I have a lot of personal experience as a renter, as I married at almost 40 and never bought while I was a bachelor (silly me). I've never had one so annoying. I seriously believe she has some sort of obsessive disorder or something, but maybe a letter from an attorney might correct the behavior.

    0Reply
  • Samantha Klein
    Investor · Monroe, WI · Member since 2015 · 691 posts · 610 votes
    10y

    While I agree that she sounds like a nuisance, she is the landlord and she probably feels comfortable checking on the property. I have only rented 6 months my whole life and bought a house because I didn't want anybody to tell me what I could and couldn't do. For $2350 a month, assuming your credit is good and income, you should be able to get a multi and then YOUR the landlord, my 2 cents.

    0Reply
  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    @Samantha Klein I agree with you. Can you sell it to my wife? :-D

    1Reply
  • Samantha Klein
    Investor · Monroe, WI · Member since 2015 · 691 posts · 610 votes
    10y

    I bought a duplex with my husband and it's been great so far. I truly believe that once you eliminate a rent payment and get a mortgage and get your tenant to pay it, you will reduce your expenses by quite a bit and be able to build a fortune in not alot of time. You could probably buy a 4 unit in your area for the same monthly payment however I don't know your area but I do know $2350 a month would get you a decent property.

    0Reply
  • Kimberly H.
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    10y

    I wouldn't just send a letter from an attorney without talking to her first and seeing if you can work it out. If I got a letter from an attorney representing a tenant out of the blue I would be really upset.  She does need to give whatever notice is required in your lease or by law to get stuff out of the home such as in the garage.  

    Although I cannot imagine why she cares about a garage light left on!!

    Landlords don't want to lose good tenants. If she thinks you're good tenants she may be willing to hear what you are saying and revise her ways. Otherwise...maybe you do need to move.

    2Reply
  • Robert White
    Investor · Endicott, NY · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 36 votes
    10y

    Think of some cures...

    Search on Amazon for motion detector lights (they screw into existing sockets), and ask if the landlord minds if you replace the garage lights with those.  They will turn on when you enter, and shut off four minutes after you leave.

    Ask if she'll give you a heads up when she plans on mowing so you can clean up the yard for her.

    Tell her you have a pet snake in the garage that gets nervous without 24 hours notice of a visit (OK, she might not buy this one.)

    I agree with the others... the only illegal thing she may be doing is not giving 24 hours notice, and no judge is likely to fine her for that.  

    If she has a lot of stuff in the garage, can you move it all to one bay and allow her access to that bay?

    Think of ways to make her happy, and you'll be happier too.

    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    It is very clear from your statements that you have correctly identified her as obsessive. If you know anything at all about that type of personality you should know that trying to talk to her about change or having a lawyer send a letter will likely make things much worse. Keep to yourself and tolerate the situation as best you can till your lease is up.

    Collectively you seem to have a lot of issues but based on individual items you are nit picking. Most of the issues are insignificant.

    You are a unhappy renter and the only proper solution is for you to move. Landlords and tenants part ways when their is a problem, change is impossible.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I don't think you're nitpicking, but you're not going to change this woman.  There's a reason the place was available.

    The funny thing is, if you talk to her, she'll probably say she is really happy with you.  She's just treating you like "family," lol.

    It will be a constant, miserable, stressful fight if you try to force her to behave.  If it was me, I'd be looking to move as soon as possible, and I'd start passive aggressive warfare.  Things like, answer the phone when she says you left the light on and say, "Huh, gosh you're right.  Have a good night."  Then, leave it on.

    Do the playing dumb thing.  It will be your own little revenge, without engaging in in-your-face warfare.

    "Oh, thanks for putting the little sticks in the lawn to show where the poop is."  Then, don't pick it up.

    Bullies (and I think she's a bully) want a fight.  People who are professionals at passive aggressiveness absolutely drive them up a wall.  It's really the only power you have in this situation.  It will be more fun and empowering than trying to work things out with her, where she will always keep the upper hand.

    And you need to completely give up the idea of staying there and ever living in peace.  Well, unless you hire a hit man and then buy the place from her kids...

    1Reply
  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed That made me laugh really hard. I appreciate your input. She doesn't have kids and has never been married, though. Her sister and brother-in-law own the original farmhouse next door to me and her brother lives 2 acres behind me. Her uncle built this house in 1950, it is the newest house of a few that were part of their family farm. My ideas for this property would have involved hopefully buying them all out eventually. There is 5o acres here, where it is very difficult to find acreage. 

    I've always know it would be tough to talk them out of it, and I'm even more sure now. Oh, the best laid plans of mice and men...

    To anyone who thought I was being nitpicking, if you are also a landlord, I'd ask you to take a look at your context as a landlord. When you rent a SFR to a family, it is more their home during their tenancy than yours (obviously not legally theirs, but it should be treated as such) Constant phone calls and visits run tenants off.

    I respect others privacy, because it is very important to me. All free citizens, whether owning or renting, have a right to privacy. Honor it. 

    I thank everyone for their input. 

    0Reply
  • Stone Teran
    Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 374 posts · 120 votes
    10y

    Tim, I've done all of those things as a landlord and all her requests are reasonable.  I especially hate missed dog poop and when tenants claim to be handy and "fix" stuff in a horrible way and I have to fix it again to undo the mess they made.

    0Reply
  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    I agree that she doesn't have to allow me to fix things. It just means she'll get email requests for drippy faucets or running toilets instead of me fixing them. I wasn't asking to reside the house or change out a pre-hung door. 

    The dogs are allowed on my lease, and expecting perfection of me on any level is unreasonable. They **** about 14 times per week each. If 1/28 gets missed on a 2 acre lot...be reasonable. 

    From the forums here, I also see that the two main dissenters are landlords in two states that are not only LL friendly, but also right-to-work states. I live in MA...it is very, very different. The individual has more rights here. Having also lived in FL (which is much more like Ohio, than MA), I know where you're coming from. I also know where I'll never go back. 

    1Reply
  • Penny ClarkPro Member
    Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes
    10y

    @Tim Wilkinson, yes, your landlord is a PIA and I sympathize with your situation. However,  it's still your choice to live there.  Yes you could raise a stink about it and you may have a case for her overstepping your rights but to what avail? There are plenty of "hands off" landlords out there who'd be happy to have you as a tenant if you pay your rent on time, keep the place in good order and don't cause trouble for your neighbors. Consider not renewing your lease and move.

    Good luck!

    1Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    The fact is that you have learned all her idiosyncrasies by now and can simply avoid all her calls by following her rules till you move out. Nothing more irritating for a landlord than having to constantly call and remind a tenant of the same rules over and over.  The business relationship you are in is a two way street. You can make it as simple or as difficult as you choose.

    I do not manage my properties as she does, thankfully, but if I had ongoing issues as she seems to have I would be happy to let you out of your lease early.

    0Reply
  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    we are fantastic tenants. We were late one time for three days when my wife's company got bought and her payroll frequency changed. We keep the house clean including hiring cleaners, our dogs don't do any damage and are very well trained.

    We were in the last house, when my wife had a two hour commute, for five years. Only one time in five years did the landlord ever come to my house. The reason he came is because a tree limb went through the roof. I made every repair in that home and only build the landlord for the part. He was in heaven, and I had my privacy. When you have a good tenants, hey sane person would maintain a relationship, not chase them away. I am hearing all the arguments, but if you gather that we were bad tenants from what you read, I am thankful I'm not your tenant.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    It's my opinion that no matter what you do, this woman will find something to pick at you for.  And I don't think she's being reasonable.  You're right.  You have the right to quiet enjoyment of the place, and having her constantly around and watching your every move, invades your right to enjoy the place in peace.  And I think the rules would just keep changing.  She brings to mind the movie scenes where the bad guys shoot at the ground in front of someone yelling, "Dance! Dance!"  She likes making you dance.

    Some landlords become landlords because they are voyeurs.  I worked for one.  Nice guy, but he lived for any excuse to go inside a tenant's unit without notice.  The UPS guy left a package in front of a tenant's door?  Wahoo!  He'd go get his master key and open the door and put it inside the unit, then take a little look-see around the place.  Then, I get the phone call, "Um, thanks for putting my package inside....."  Or, "Don't EVER come into my apartment again like that!"  Then, I got to explain that it wasn't me.

    He also hauled away the garbage on Saturdays when he came to the building to do weekly maintenance.  And he went through every bag with his bare hands, looking for recyclables.  Yeah, right.  Then, he'd tell me that so and so had been gambling, and so and so is into porn, and so and so got a rabbit, but we can't kick her out because then we'd have to tell her we found out by going through her garbage.  So, he knew he shouldn't do these things, but did them anyway.

    Your landlady will probably live to be 100 and will never sell that place, because it's what she lives for.  Oh, the power trip.  And I wouldn't be surprised, if she wants you to call her for every little thing, because it gives her a reason to come into your space every time.  She doesn't want it to be easy or hands-off.  

    I think your plan was a good one, but even if you got her to agree to sell, she'd probably insist on a life estate LOL.  And now you know, of course, why this great place was available.  I bet it would be fun to swap stories with the last tenant.  Sorry, it didn't work out the way you'd planned.  Bummer.

    0Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but: if you have to be late with less than $2500 rent because your wife was late getting paid, you need much higher reserves, especially if you are a real estate investor. I have never been late with rent or mortgage in my entire life, and that includes times when I was making $400/month as a member of the military. 

    No doubt the landlord sounds OCD. Your dilemma is that you love the town, and the house, and your wife loves the short commute, but you don't like dealing with this landlord. As I see it, you should finish out your lease and move - that's what I would do. I certainly wouldn't bother with letters from attorneys and things like that; those actions smack of things professional tenants do. You may also just ask to be let loose from your lease, and if she finds you as annoying as you find her, she may just do so; sometimes people are just incompatible in a business relationship. 

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  • Tim Wilkinson
    OP
    Investor · Salisbury, MA · Member since 2015 · 240 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    I agree with you, 

    @JD Martin 

    I'm just starting and working on cash flow and very resistant to take a check from my business. Before I start giving too much detail around personal finances, just suffice it to say the three days was an acceptable risk to me and it really isn't a huge deal. 

    I think we will be moving on in October, but it costs a fortune to move, and we both planned for this to be at least two years. Bummer, is right @Account Closed.

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    You should not assume we believe you are a bad tenant we are simply providing information on a personal level to make it easier for you to tolerate your present situation. The only solution is move.

    Your landlord has a difficult personality but you have the option of ignoring her or letting it bother you.  It's your life and your decision as to how you best want to live it.

    Unfortunately this is a common situation when renting from a mom and pop landlord.

    2Reply
  • Michael Totman
    Real Estate Agent · Berlin, MA · Member since 2013 · 130 posts · 95 votes
    10y

    Tim you say you're an investor, think of it from an investor standpoint.  You signed a lease that allowed her to keep one bay.  Did you read the lease? Did you think she did this simply trying to keep you from filling it with junk, or that she intended to use it and frequent the property to store/retrieve things?  If she's asking you to be her errand boy to retrieve items then politely decline, but you agreed to the arrangement. 

    You've been there 8 months. You're a stranger to her. She doesn't know if you are competent to repair things or not, and she would prefer her own contractor to work on her house.  This is not unreasonable and you should go enjoy your "time off" from repairs. 

    Does she pay for the electricity for the light that gets left on? If so, shut it off. If you pay, then I'll give you this one and tell her to go pound sand.

    You rented a SFH, normally that would require you to do yard maintenance but she has agreed to mow your lawn. It sounds like it may be a large lawn and take a fair amount of time to do. The least you can do is pick up your dog crap so she doesn't step in it and it doesn't turn the lawn brown.

    I suspect she is a PIA, but it sounds more like you acted just like any other tenant and rushed to get into the nice house without reading and realizing your responsibilities.  It doesn't sound like something an investor would do, but you did it.

    Best of luck and maybe you should move on.  Definitely don't turn into a professional tenant with the lawyers, BOH calls, etc.  You're an investor, and karma's a B****. 

    2Reply
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