Landlord shot and killed, set on fire while collecting rent...

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Landlord shot and killed, set on fire while collecting rent...

Michael Hassell
Investor · Davenport, FL · Member since 2014 · 64 posts · 21 votes

Came across my BP FB page today

http://news10.com/2016/06/03/landlord-shot-killed-...

So what do you folks do to combat this sort of thing and protect yourself?

Being in Florida I have my concealed weapons permit and carry often, certainly when dealing with tenants.  but that's really just a tool of absolute last resort.  I feel these sort of things can be avoided.  For one I stay out of the worst neighborhoods as they will inevitably attract bad tenants.  I screen folks on the phone first and try to screen thoroughly before renting.  I trust my gut, if it feels bad don't do it. Some red flags include any sort of discount from my asking price, security deposit, or first/last month....I don't mind them asking, I mind them pestering or trying to badger me into it (I would ALWAYS ask for a discount too).  I have had occasions where I asked someone to go with me if I thought there might be any trouble, I'm blessed with a really great brother in law who is a cop, he's a good guy to have in a tight spot.  Finally, most of the local police/sheriff's deputies have no problem coming to "stand by" if you explain a potentially bad situation...of course, they are dependent on call volume and might not work on your schedule...and you have to have some idea the tenant isn't reliable or you might never think to call.

What else?  What do you do to keep your activities safe?

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James DeRoest
Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Michael Hassell:

Came across my BP FB page today

http://news10.com/2016/06/03/landlord-shot-killed-...

So what do you folks do to combat this sort of thing and protect yourself?

I think the what we call a "screening failure".

Don't buy in war zones, don't rent to violent criminals. You know that whole "you can't not rent to people with felonies" thing, well shove that up your *** for a start.

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  • Jake Thomas
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 803 posts · 689 votes
    10y

    I just read this article before I saw your post. Sad how sick some people can be. 

    I combat this by not having rentals in war zones and never ever collect rent in person. They can pay online or they can mail it to me. 

    1Reply
  • Charles A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 208 posts · 282 votes
    10y
    Who are all these folks still collecting rent in person in 2016?!!!😳 Online or POBox. No exceptions. Sad. RIP.
    0Reply
  • Michael Hassell
    OP
    Investor · Davenport, FL · Member since 2014 · 64 posts · 21 votes
    10y

    Ha, agreed, I actually don't have any rents collected in person, but this was an eviction process...there are times when you might need to be around your house.

    What process or system do you use to collect rents?

    0Reply
  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Michael Hassell:

    Came across my BP FB page today

    http://news10.com/2016/06/03/landlord-shot-killed-...

    So what do you folks do to combat this sort of thing and protect yourself?

    I think the what we call a "screening failure".

    Don't buy in war zones, don't rent to violent criminals. You know that whole "you can't not rent to people with felonies" thing, well shove that up your *** for a start.

    3Reply
  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Charles A.:

    Who are all these folks still collecting rent in person in 2016?!!!😳

    Me. For a start.

    I don't rent to violent criminals. 

    I'm not about to be intimidated by my tenants, I don't play that game. I'm not about to disconnect myself from my investments because I read one article in the press about some landlord getting killed either.

    The day I feel uneasy about turning up to collect rent, is the day everything gets sold and I buy a boat.

    And yes, there are time I carry.

    1Reply
  • Charles A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 208 posts · 282 votes
    10y

    Screening can't be 100% fool-proof.

    For every felon with a record,there was that first crime.

    Someone was their landlord at that point.

    @Michael Hassell

    I send out invoices from my quickbooks account and my tenants pay by ACH transfers.

    I get alerts by email every time the payments hit my checking account.

    Seamless.

    One tenant is old school and paranoid and insists on mailing checks per lease.

    That's fine.

    She mails her checks to my POBOX.

    @James Deroest

    I'm not "disconnected".

    Yet.

    I still stop by my units just to make sure they're still standing.Lol.

    But ultimately,I'd love a hands off role by employing a full time PM.

    You don't have to work a JOB till you're in a wheelchair.

    Such "connection" you described to your investment is just another J-O-B.

    In my opinion.

    0Reply
  • Nathan MillerPro Member
    Property Manager · Grants Pass, OR · Member since 2009 · 429 posts · 201 votes
    10y

    Generally speaking, I think this is a very preventable situation.

    a) Screen your tenants.  Don't rent to criminals or those unwilling to pay their bills (shows up on credit and eviction records).

    b) It's 2016, collecting rent in person is not only impractical, but dangerous (case in point).  Collect rent via ACH or CC instead.  It's super easy for landlords to do this these days.

    c) If you end up in a situation where you feel a tenant can be dangerous, it's time for them to go.  Find somebody better and never tolerate a violent tenant in your property.

    0Reply
  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Charles A.:

    Such "connection" you described to your investment is just another J-O-B.

    Everything is a job. I've never understood some of you landlords that want nothing to do with your properties. You have considerable investments in them, you have people paying you fairly large amounts of money, yet you want as little to do with the property itself, and as little contact with your customers as possible.

    I can think of no other business where businessmen/women have such a cavalier attitude to their own business! 

    1Reply
  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    10y

    Screen like crazy. I also have a CCW and always carry.

    0Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    10y

    People depend too much on the cops. The reality of most assaults and incidents is by the time they get there the event has already passed or is at the tail end of things.

    That should tell people you need to learn how to defend yourself and survive.

    Cops can take 5,10,15 minutes to get somewhere depending on many factors. An average fight lasts 1 minute or 2.

    Situational awareness and readiness at all times is key. A gun means nothing if you do not actively practice every week at the range. Not only shooting the weapon but gun take ways and struggle situations.

    For example if you only practice shooting at a range then what happens when someone goes for the gun and you have no self defense training or gun combat training?

    A weapon is an extension of your body and there are lot's of places where weapons are not allowed. Learning to use your body first which you have with you at all times is key and then extend out to secondary weapons to train with.

    I see really out of shape people with a knife or gun and they believe that is all they need to defend themselves.   

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    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    It mostly comes down to the area you invest in but sometimes applicants with mental illnesses do get through the process, I know that first hand.

    Assault on landlords is probably less common than most other assaults. Not generally worth worrying about. Although I have been assaulted (very minor) most landlords should be more concerned about road rage than assault from tenants. 

    0Reply
  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    People depend too much on the cops. The reality of most assaults and incidents is by the time they get there the event has already passed or is at the tail end of things.

    That should tell people you need to learn how to defend yourself and survive.

    I think you're going to a tenant house with the wrong attitude. You're not looking for a fight, you're looking for rent. "Have you got rent?" "No". That really is as far as the conversation needs to go. You aren't there to get into fisticuffs with anyone, just see if your rent is ready.

    And although I carry in some circumstances, eg going to Walmart, but what is the gun really for if it comes out? It's a deterrent. You don't need to hit s**t with it, but it's there not to escalate a situation. And in most cases, its presence will stop things escalating.

    But why should collecting rent escalate? They have rent or they don't. If they don't, walk away. They aren't suddenly going to pay because you make a convincing argument.

    1Reply
  • Ken McGuire
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    What if you live in a 4 unit building.  Won't the tenants drop off their check to you?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I think this should be a lesson to the new landlords who think it's a great idea to invest in D properties.

    0Reply
  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    This is an anomaly and really unfortunate.  I would say make sure you aren't confrontational and use the court systems.

    0Reply
  • Bill ThompsonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jamaica Plain, MA · Member since 2015 · 60 posts · 88 votes
    10y

    Lots of sound advice here. To pick-up on what @James DeRoest said, it's important to avoid escalating a contentious situation with a tenant.

    I noticed the article specially mentioned the landlord was shot in an attempt to collect OVERDUE rent. An overdue rent situation is a potential powder keg and a landlord should not handle this informally with the tenant. Instead, the landlord should commence a formal eviction process if rent is not received within reasonable amount of time (say, 48 hours past the due date)... get a constable to serve a notice to quit and file for eviction after the notice period if the overdue rent hasn't been paid by then. This will certainly change the tone of the situation from one where the tenant is either evasive or combative to one where the tenant is engaged in trying to avoid a judgement against them. As James said, there is no need to argue with tenants or chase them for rent. If they don't pay, let the court system handle it.

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