Incompetent Landlord charing us for damage already in home when we moved in

General Landlording & Rental Properties

Incompetent Landlord charing us for damage already in home when we moved in

Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes

We have been renting a 1750 sq. foot home in San Jose, CA for the past 2 years. We are paying a ridiculous amount of rent $3100. The home has a pool, but no AC.

Move in condition was deplorable. It was filthy. The owner never did a walk through inspection with us. After about 3 months of trying to get them resolve basic issues, and them saying "no". I realized they were flakes. I documented every bit of existing damage to the home and my husband and I both signed it. We sent the letter with our rent.

Fast forward to present time. We are moving out on 5/22. Landlord came by Saturday (first time we have seen her since before we moved in). I had mentioned to her that she would likely need to address the large discloration stains on the white linoleum in one of the rooms off the kitchen area. We have had to cover them with rugs since we've been here. This room has a huge patio door with no window coverings and the sun beats down on this room at about 125 degrees in the summer.

The stains have become darker since we moved in and she swears they weren't there when they left. Well, they WERE there or I wouldn't have put 2 big area rugs in there to cover them up!

She is now saying we have to replace the floor in that room. It is a room we use for NOTHING. It's completely empty. All we did was cover the stains that were there and forget about it. Now she wants us to pay for it.

It is her fault for not doing a move in checklist for us. If she had, there would be no dispute those areas were already there.

What recourse do we have?

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Financial Advisor · Tampa Area, FL · Member since 2008 · 956 posts · 214 votes

it appears to me that you should have addressed some of these issues before moving in....

if the place was 'deplorable' why did you move in?

why did you move in when you thought the $3100 rent was 'ridiculous'?

why didn't you adress the floor issue the past 2 years?

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Josh Green
Financial Advisor · Tampa Area, FL · Member since 2008 · 956 posts · 214 votes
17y
it appears to me that you should have addressed some of these issues before moving in....

if the place was 'deplorable' why did you move in?

why did you move in when you thought the $3100 rent was 'ridiculous'?

why didn't you adress the floor issue the past 2 years?
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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
We scheduled a move in date. They didn't even have all of their things out of the house until well after midnight the night before we moved in.

Then, they filled up our trash cans with their crap and we had nowhere to put our garbage. At that point, the account was in our name and our bill.

We had no idea they would wait until the last minute to get everything out.

They moved May 18, we moved in June 13th. I thought they would have had the home professionally cleaned and at least painted before we moved in.

We were pretty surprised none of that had been done, but what could we do? We had signed the lease weeks before.

We didn't find all of the flaws in the home until after moving in.

We were told the AC wasn't working properly but that it could be fixed if we wanted it fixed. Then the story changed to, "well it's going to cost us about $10K to so that, so we're not going to."

After discovering what flakes these people were, I finally DID write up a letter documenting everything wrong with the home INCLUDING the stains on the linoleum floor. No response whatsoever. If she didn't believe us, she should have driven down and taken a look.

Your tone is insulting. We have always moved into rentals that were clean, immaculate and freshly painted. Why would we expect them NOT to do the same?

We have also always received 100% of our deposit back. We are the tenants landlords dream about having, so take your condescending tone and move on unless you have some constructive advice.

PS if the home had turned out to be what we though and the AC would have been fixed, we wouldn't have complained about paying $3100 in rent and wouldn't be moving.
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Joshua D.Pro Member
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
17y
Josh - Please try to be helpful without attacking the poster. This isn't a question of blame . . . Barbie is looking for help and answers here. Thank you.
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
17y
You'll probably need to wait until you get an accounting of your deposit from the landlord. Then, you'll need to take him to court. A judge will decide who's right and who's wrong. If you have pictures and documentation you'll be in a better position to make your case.

You should look for any tenant advocates in your area. The city or county may have such a group. They may be able to give some advice about the local laws. Some locations will grant double or treble damages if a landlord improperly withholds your deposit. Some locations lean toward the tenants, others more toward landlords. Where is this property?
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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
Thank you, Joshua. Sometimes it actually IS the landlord who is the scumbag in the situation.

We've never had such a negative experience.
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Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
Hi Jon, we are in San Jose, California.

I wish I had taken pictures, but quite honestly, I never thought it would come to this. Nothing like this has ever happened before, so this has definitely been a learning experience.

Although I did send a letter 3 months after move in, there is no proof it was sent or when it was written, so not sure that will hold up.

I do believe it was the owner's responsibility to do a move in inpsection with us, but I should have insisted.

They just wanted out of this house, move to their new home, collect their rent and forget about it. They had no interest in this place after they left and literally ran to the bank and cashed our rent checks the day they received them.

I will check into the resources you mentioned once I see how much she decides to withhold.

Luckily, our new home is vacant, so we were able to see it - ALL OF IT before taking possession.
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
17y
CA tends to be pretty tenant friendly. Many places will give the tenant a property condition form where they can note any issues. Sounds like that didn't happen. So, it may turn into your word against the landlords.

I assume your letter is dated, and that you kept a copy. That will have some standing in court. I'd make a detailed, written account of what happened when, which will also help.

Check with the small claims court that has jurisdiction (San Jose Municipal, I would guess) and see if this falls within their guidelines. If not, they can probably direct you to the correct court. Try googling for San Jose, your county, or CA landlord tenant law and you should come up with some information. I would really think the city or county would have some agency that could provide some pointers, too.
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Ralph S.
Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
17y
You might find that you're argument is better than you think. In a tenant friendly state where it's one word against another, the tenant will win.
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Joshua D.Pro Member
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
17y
I was a tenant in CA for a while, and it is certainly a tenant friendly state. If you've got the evidence you claim to have, it sounds like you've got a fairly strong case here. Of course, no one can make any promises to you . . . let us know how things turn out.
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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
Thanks for all of the constructive responses. I am really hoping we can avoid going to small claims court, but I'm feeling more hopeful about it.

I am the type of person that if I caused damage, I would readily point it out and say how much do I owe you? I would never try to get away with damaging someone's property and not doing right by the owner.
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Eric Wang
Real Estate Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2008 · 228 posts · 13 votes
17y
Your landlord was either lazy or inexperience. We do a walk through with all our tenant regarding condition of unit and also explain the rental agreement and then only, if both parties agree, sign at the bottom. I take before pictures and keep a spiral notebook and document everything just in case problems arrives later.

Most likely you will have to go to small claims court. Great that you documented everything, this will help you in court. Your landlord cannot prove that you cause the damage, no walk through, most likely no before pictures. The landlord can't charge you for discoloration of the floor, it was naturally caused by the sun. Most likely no receipt that the carpet was steam cleaned. The landlord is going to have to prove that you caused the damage, without documentation, kind of hard. If you do decide to dispute, their is a time table to do so, I don't know what that time table is. Good Luck!
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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
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Eric Wang
Real Estate Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2008 · 228 posts · 13 votes
17y
We live in a liberal state, renters have more power than you think, sometimes it makes me sick. So many new laws are pass each year that landlords do not keep up with. Depending on how much your landlord deduct, it might be worth taking her to court. Landlord are require to return deposit within a certain time window.
Deduction must be itemized with repair cost, not what the landlord think it cost.
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Joshua D.Pro Member
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
17y
I do know that in CA a landlord is required to return the deposit within a certain time frame, and must keep an itemized list of deductions, as Eric said (or at least that was how things were a bunch of years ago).
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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
Eric,

I guess this might be the only time I'm glad I live in a liberal state, lol. We're renting for 3 more years, then buying a home in Idaho and leaving this madness behind for good.

She has 21 days after we move out to return our deposit and list of receipts.

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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
[Poster expressed a concern that landlord would charge her for the last month's rent because there were leaving one month before the lease period ended. Said landlord had agreed to let them out of the lease, but was worried the landlord would not honor that verbal agreement.]
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
17y
Probably best to assume you will have to pay rent until the end of your lease or the property is re-rented, whichever comes sooner.
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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
Even though she agreed to end the lease early?
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
17y
Yes. If you just bailed out on me before the end of the lease, I'd charge you both rent until its re-rented AND a "improper lease termination fee". If we spoke, and I agreed to let you out, I'd drop the fee, but still charge rent. I've been in that position as a tenant, too, when we first moved to CO. We bought a house and moved out a month before our lease ended. The property wasn't re-rented until two weeks after we left, and we had to pay for those two weeks. That was with the landlord's agreement we could leave early.

Should also say the LL would be required to make a diligent effort to re-rent it. If she billed you for this, and you went to court, and you were able to show she did nothing to re-rent it, the judge might disallow the extra rent.
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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
There was no mention by her of any of what you are referring to or we would just have waited another month to leave. This was her exact response:
"I'm so sorry to hear that yoyu will be leaving. Of course we will totally work with you on this. Your offer to show the home and leave the appliances will really help. Please feel free to go ahead and rent the new place and I will put the home back up for rent. Feel free to use me as a reference if you ever need one. "
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
17y
You could just call her and ask.
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OP
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
She's not speaking to either of us since the blow up over the floor situation when she was here on Saturday.
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Select a State · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
17y
She won't respond to my emails and my husband called her yesterday to ask about the plan for the floor. No response.
I wanted to know if she's rented the home, if she needs us to show it this weekend, if she'd like us to put a for rent sign in the yard... is there anything more we can do to help. No response.
This is beyond frustrating. This woman has no business being a landlord. Hire a property manager or sell the damn house!
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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
17y
Perhaps you should consider calling someone who does vinyl flooring to find out the cause of the stains. Sunlight would cause fading, not darkening. It could be there is something in the underlying floor that's causing the discoloration. If you can find someone to show its caused by something out of your control, you may have some evidence to get her off your case.
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Joshua D.Pro Member
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
17y
Thread closed. User has destroyed the entire flow of the conversation, despite people giving their time to help her by deleting her posts.
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