I know this is looking at the issue from the wrong side for most of you, but would love some input. We signed a lease on house just under 3 weeks ago ~paid the security deposit at that time, which has been cashed. We are due to move in in less than 2 weeks, but today rec'd a letter stating our application is denied because of credit issues. Is this really legal for a landlord to do? What are our options? They have not returned our $1750 security deposit. Our current lease is up a the end of this month. We suspect they realized they could get more for the house than what they offered it to us for.
If you have a signed lease, then it's too late for them to deny your application. You have a contract that you can enforce.
If I was you, I'd send them a demand letter to honor the lease, or you intend to sue them and have a judge order them to do so, and to also pay any of your court costs and out of pocket expenses incurred from their breach of contract.
You have a signed contract. If they break it, they are in breach of contract and you have the right to sue them for doing so, and for any costs you incur because of their breaking the contract.
They're hoping you're too stupid to know your rights. It will be fun to let them know you're not stupid, won't it? :-)
The letter said "utilities - collection" but we have all our recent credit reports (trying to buy a house) and that is not on any of them. We think she just picked a random thing because either the owners changed their mind about renting the house or they decided to get more money for it. They have used it as their vacation house for the past 10 years, its full of stuff so they were going to rent furnished / partially furnished. They were still decided what to take and what to leave. Extended family coming for the holiday claiming items, etc. We think they just had a change of heart and this is how they are getting out of it.
Check out Northwest Justice Project : Your Rights as a Tenant in Washington State. And meanwhile realize that you don't want a relationship with these owners, trying to force them to abide by the agreement will just lead to more stress and disappointment. It sounds as though they are inexperienced landlords (I just accepted my first renter today on our family home, my 18 and 20 year old kids are depressed and quiet, my husband has been glued to the T.V. since the renters left and I'm definitely feeling very sad and unsure of my new investing strategy!) Giving up a family home can be traumatic BUT they've left you in a bad spot and they need to return your deposit immediately. I hope they make things right for you and I hope you find a place much better suited for you.
If you have a signed lease, then it's too late for them to deny your application. You have a contract that you can enforce.
If I was you, I'd send them a demand letter to honor the lease, or you intend to sue them and have a judge order them to do so, and to also pay any of your court costs and out of pocket expenses incurred from their breach of contract.
You have a signed contract. If they break it, they are in breach of contract and you have the right to sue them for doing so, and for any costs you incur because of their breaking the contract.
They're hoping you're too stupid to know your rights. It will be fun to let them know you're not stupid, won't it? :-)
Nope, not legal, not even close, if what you say is absolutely correct. If you signed the lease, and deposit was cashed, then that's it. The lease is in effect. Leases work both ways, that's the whole point of signing one. It gives the landlord piece of mind that they will have a renter for at least a year, and a tenant piece of mind that they will not have to move for at least a year. It is enforceable upon the landlord just as much as it is upon the tenant.
This is exactly the same as if you signed a lease, but then refused to pay rent. That would not end well for the tenant, this will not end well for the landlord should you choose to pursue legal options. Go demand the keys for your house.
If the landlord wants you out at this time, he has to evict you, and for that to happen, he needs a very good reason. It takes a whole lot more work than just saying "no, you can't have it".
Thanks for the replies. What do we need to protect ourselves at this point and get our deposit back? The letter is computer generated from a company out of state, there is no signature on it. We haven't tried contacting the pm company as we opened the letter on Sunday and today is a holiday. Wanted to have our strategy in place before calling. They are 4 hours south of here so going in person is not an option.
@Robi Hawley yes, I agree we don't want to rent from these people. Its a small pm company and I think the owner is more than a bit random in her policies. We did find the Rights as Tenant page and will call on Tuesday for their advice. Good luck on your new venture!
@Account Closed thank you, that was our take on it too.
Unfortunately, what you're going to need to do is get an attorney. They'll know what your options are in about 2 minutes. But I would agree with the consensus on this one.
They accepted your security deposit and signed the lease. They're obligated to stick to it - unless there was something in the lease that said they could back out should something be found later to be not accurate when compared to what was given to them on the application.
Barring some sort of clause like that though, they're clueless as to what they're doing. And yes, I would definitely sue them to perform. And you know you'll have something to go after - the house. So you will get paid.... eventually anyway. But it probably won't help you in the interim....
In the packet of documents that I was given to use I was told I could not take a "security deposit" until the day of property transfer when I could do the walk-through with the renter. Instead I was to use a "Holding fee Agreement" and then apply those funds to the first months rent. My advisor (CPA and experienced landlord) included a clause in the Holding Fee Agreement that it would be refunded if the tenants failed to pass a screening or credit check. On move in day the tenants will have to supply me with a cashiers check for the security deposit, pet deposit and last months rent. These funds have to then be held in a separate account (I cannot use them!) until the lease is terminated.
The others are right, you have signed legal documents with definitive obligations on both parties so check the wording of the document carefully and compare it to the rules listed in the NW Justice Project. Morally, it sounds like you have a case but perhaps not legally? Owner should do the right thing and give money back tomorrow, but legally they may have 14 days to return it. You need it now to get another rental and attorneys are expensive.
Your situation really struck me yesterday due to my own personal experience at the time. I'm not advocating that you NOT hold these people accountable but I am saying you need to be practical about it.
Unfortunately, what you're going to need to do is get an attorney.
TOTALLY unnecessary! If you need to take this person to court, it will be small claims court, and lawyers are not allowed there. They are also not needed due to how easy and informal the process is. Small claims court covers everything under $5000-10000 depending on the state. If you win your case you will not get what you paid the lawyer on a small claim.
And yes, I would probably attempt to sue them for further damages based on the fact that now you are in a bad position and you only have a very short period of time to find another house. It is 100% their fault that you are in this position and if you have to spend any money on anything to make it right - SUE THEIR ASSES! You will have to quantify and explain every dollar you are suing for, so, for example, if you spend $500 staying in hotels, add that to their bill. If you have to spend extra money to eat at restaurants because you don't have a kitchen, add that to their bill.
If you've never been to small claims court it really is very easy and low cost if you are in the right and have papers to back your story up. When somebody does something this stupid it will be an open and shut case.
You might just try calling them, let them know you have an overwhelming case against them and you plan to take them to court, and see if they would like to settle. Tell them you need your deposit back IMMEDIATELY and you want something extra for the trouble.
If that doesn't work, the first part of a lawsuit is mediation. You have to sit down with the other side and try to work things out. In most cases, anybody with common sense will settle out of court when presented with evidence they can't overcome.
@J Paige To clarify, you signed the lease contract, but did the Landlord sign the lease and give you a copy?
@Wayne Brooks yes, our copy of the lease has the owner of the pm companies signature on it. The receipt for our check (which has been cashed) specifies security & pet deposit.
They could break the lease and refund your deposit if they found out you had a collection and pass utilities you have not paid. It doesn't need to be on your credit report for them to break the lease and when they ask you about it did. You deny it base. It is not on your credit file.
FALSE! They cannot break the lease for any reason after it has been signed. They can deny to sign it in the first place for almost any reason, after it's signed they cannot take it back or change their mind. Especially after they cash the deposit! The only thing they can do is evict the tenant if they do something worth evicting for, and this person has not. They would have to go through a formal eviction process.
I disagree. It looks like the tenant. Have a collection and pass bill from utilities and why not undo the lease and let the tenant look elsewhere. The landlord has a right not to take a risk on someone who has to pass problems. Now let's say a tenant wants to rent from you, and they had collections and utility's problems they never paid would you rent to them?
None of that is relevant! They already signed a lease! That's why you check that stuff BEFORE you sign. The lease is in full effect and cannot be canceled by the landlord. Period! A landlord does not have the option to "undo" the lease! LOL!
The only option to remove a tenant after you sign a lease is to formally evict them, but to do that, you need a better reason than anything given here.
@Account Closed if it sets your mind at ease John I will say that we are planning on requesting a copy of our report from the service she used so we can get the utility collection mistake removed. It seems to be some sort of property management software service that did the screening. But she did run our reports right after showing us the house. She was very eager for us to sign before we left town and had us make a special trip in to sign, despite us saying we were happy to do it all long distance. If there is anything on the report, it dates from 4 years ago (I have a vague memory of having to get a similar sounding thing cleared from our credit reports as a mistake) and it did not bother her when she wanted us to sign. Really I think either the owners / extended family decided to do something else with the house, or they realized they were under-pricing it. They were surprised we are currently paying more rent for our house with no water view than what they are asking for a bigger house right on the beach. It was too good to be true.
You are right they sign the lease, and you can bet the landlord will watch them like a hawk and ready to evict them if they step out of line.
That's OK, as long as they follow the rules the landlord can't do anything. The OP here has already said they aren't interested in working with this landlord any further and want to move anyway. Most states also have rules against retaliatory eviction for stuff like this.
This is actually a rare case where the tenant has a choice to either keep the house, or move, and it's completely up to them and the landlord has no choice in the matter.
@Account Closed thanks for all the good information! At this point we are just hoping a check for our full deposit will be waiting in the mailbox for us tomorrow, but we have found a good real estate attorney if we have to go that route.
Ha ha YES @Polly Gage that was our thought too, all this angst and it might just be a computer mistake. But she is a chatty lady and I haven't had an email from her since the 27th. It is the holiday weekend, so maybe she is taking a break from work. But maybe not. She did tell us about a former employee she had telling her (in regards to a tenants lease) "you can't do that!" and her answer to the employee was "yes I can, I am the owner of this company I can do whatever I want!" Yikes!
@Account Closed
I disagree with telling a tenant that they should not consult with an attorney. They need to find out what their rights are and know exactly what they can go after in court - be it small claims court or not.
You suggest that they should just go to small claims court. But what should they sue for exactly? Can they get damages? What are the damages they can go after? After state and sometimes even every county can be different.
Suggesting to them they should do it without involving an attorney is awful advice.
Go pay the money to see an attorney. Find out what you can and can't go after. And see what the amount looks like. Then decide what you want to do and how you want to do it.
Way too many laws and technicalities that only an attorney could help you figure out. To save yourself a couple hundred bucks on attorney fees may end up costing you thousands of dollars.
Find out what your rights are. What the attorney recommends in terms filing a lawsuit or possibly sending the landlord a letter from an attorney stating they need to honor the lease or they will be sued for failing to perform.
You don't know what you don't know. And thats why you really need to talk with an attorney. Because what works for you in your area and your situation, may be completely different for this person in their area and in their situation. Maybe they just want the landlord to perform and going to small claims court might not get them that.
But a decent attorney will be able to advice the best next steps.
If the landlord wants you out at this time, he has to evict you, and for that to happen, he needs a very good reason. It takes a whole lot more work than just saying "no, you can't have it".
I believe you are incorrect.
I would send a letter return receipt requested from the post office today to establish proof that you are trying to clear up the issue because it will become handy if you wind up in court, and because people who know better know once something is sent return receipt that can't pretend it never got received. Hopefully it is just some kind of mistake and you just can't get a hold of someone due to the holiday.
No landlord in their right mind should think they can keep the security deposit in this situation, for starters. Having a signed lease gives you rights, that's the whole point of it. Even if the lease has a clause that says,"The landlord can cancel lease before tenant moves in if we find an issue on the tenants credit report", no judge will uphold an illegal clause such as that. They needed to figure out if you were ok or not during the application process, not *after* lease signing. Makes me wonder if the property manager approved the application and the property owner now saw the credit report and would have rejected it. Please keep us posted and let us know what happens. *I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advise*.
I'm with @Account Closed here all the way. The landlord or landlord's agent chose to hurry the application process and sign the contract and accept and cash the deposit. No getting out of it now, no matter what.
And small claims court is the way to go. No need to pay an attorney. And if you add up a bunch of stuff and add it to your claim and you're wrong - it doesn't matter. Put as much stuff in your claim as you can possibly think of. As long as it doesn't add up to more than the max you can sue for in small claims court, no problem.
Then, the judge can wade through it all and decide what the correct amount is to give you. Judges are lawyers, who can also make the decision on your case - and in small claims court - they're free!
You first have to send a demand letter, though. Simple letter - due to your breach of contract, you have cost us $_____________ in damages, and you are holding the deposits that we paid, and you cashed, in the amount of $____________. Therefore, we demand you send a check in the amount of $__________ to be received by us by _______________ (give them one week), or we intend to sue in small claims court and also ask the judge for any punitive damages allowed, and our court costs. We feel confident we will win, but hope you will simply refund us this money, so we can all avoid court.
Sincerely,
You
The name and address of the person you should send the letter to, should be in your contract. It should list whomever you would serve legal papers on. Send it with delivery confirmation. If that's not in the contract, just send it to the office you rented from.
If you end up in court, put the total you think you should get per the above, and write on the form for the court "and any punitive damages the judge may find appropriate and court costs." That covers you in case the law allows you extra money for the landlord dealing in bad faith. Some states will allow twice or even three times the amount of the deposit.
Good luck.
"I am not a lawyer, and yet I give free legal advice all the time - which isn't illegal :-)"
@Account Closed
You suggest that they should just go to small claims court. But what should they sue for exactly? Can they get damages? What are the damages they can go after? After state and sometimes even every county can be different.
Suggesting to them they should do it without involving an attorney is awful advice.
Suggesting they get an attorney for something so simple in small claims court is horrible advice. There is no reason what so ever to bring in that cost, and you will never get it back even if you win a lawsuit. In regular court, if you hire a lawyer, and you win, normally the other side has to pay your legal fees. This does not happen in small claims court, any lawyers are out of your pocket only.
Additionally, the lawyer cannot come to court, so they cannot help you there, and the simple fact that they are not allowed in court means lawyers often do not understand small claims court as well as they should. They have no experience there, because they are not allowed to get any!
What should they sue for and what damages they can ask for are easy things to ask on a forum like this or search google for. Small claims court is informal, the judge does not expect you to know as much as a lawyer, and furthermore, you only have to prove your case to 51%. (not beyond all reasonable doubt)
Like Sue said, they can ask for whatever damages they want, it's up to the judge to decide whether they will get it or not. No lawyer will change that.
And yes, I'm speaking from experience, I've been to small claims court many times, sued a lot of people, been sued, never hired a lawyer, and won EVERY time! I have told a few threatening lawyers to more or less shove it where the sun don't shine, knowing full well they will lose in court. The few lawyers I have dealt with in my life have been totally incompetent anyway. Like most professionals these days. (such as the property managers in question here)
@J Paige I'm interested to hear how it turned out!?