tenant gave notice and an ultimatum

tenant gave notice and an ultimatum

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

Just got a call from my tenant that gave their 30 days notice .She wants to meet me tomorrow at noon for her final walk thru . Now she says she wont give me the keys until I give her security deposit in full ., then and there . I explained to her thats not how it works , I mentioned some of the damages than I noticed from the outside  ( all the screens and frames are gone , grass is tall , beds are full of weeds ( real small but her responsibility )  And I havent seen the inside empty . I explained I have 45 days .  She says , then I wont get the keys for 45 days .   I told her to go read the Md laws , and that playing that game could be very expensive to her .  She then screams the screens were cheap and thats not her problem   ( brand new windows and screens ) She wont cut the grass the lawn is too big .      

i told her tomorrow , she signs that she has given up the house , hands me the keys  ( I change the locks anyway )  Screens , grass and anyother damages are deducted from the deposit . If not she is still renting and i will file for an eviction etc .   She then says if I dont have a check in hand I wont sign a thing and no keys . 

I am taking a witness with me tomorrow 

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San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y

I highly suggest that you resist getting into any arguments with her at all.  It would be great if your witness could also video record it all.

Your mission:  Ignore her completely, as you walk though and write everything down that relates to the walk through, and say it out loud for the camera.  Ignore all of her arguments and attempts to discuss any of it.

At the very beginning, for the camera, in front of the tenant,  I would say that because the tenant has threatened to not hand over the keys unless you immediately turn over her security deposit in cash, that you are deliberately not engaging in any arguments with the tenant, that you brought a witness, and you are putting everything in writing and also saying out loud what you have written down.  That you have explained the laws regarding returning security deposits, but the tenant has still said she would not hand over the keys until she receives her deposit, even though law says you have 45 days.

When you are through with your walk-through, take a photo of the written walk-through document, unless you can otherwise make a copy right then and there.

Turn to the tenant and ask for the keys.  If she refuses, turn to the camera and witness and say, "In front of the witness and the video recording, the tenant has refused to vacate."  To the tenant say, "As you are still in possession of the premises, I will begin eviction proceedings immediately."

Then, if her tenancy is up, I would hand her the eviction notice right then and there in front of the witness and the camera.

That's what I'd do.  I don't suffer bullies. 

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  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Well, she added new locks, and locksmith services, to the deduct from her deposit.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Check your landlord laws before you change the locks. The tenant can still sue you. Did you ever lie to the tenant?

    i wont touch anything until she hands me the keys and signs off that she has vacated .Untill then she is holding over and everything comes out of the security deposit . 

    ?  Lie to the tenant about what ? 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed  what is your point.. ?

    Matthew do you make it a habit to lie to your tenants.. ?  can they prove you lied..

    pretty silly question really.. LOL... but you can take It up with John

    the ugly side of landlording.. its rare that I ever give a deposit back and I mean rare.

    they yell they cuss they threaten but they also do a bunch of damage.. most of them are just wind bags.

    now the one's that actually hand the property over and have lived there like responsible adults I give those back.. but most of my mid west stuff they never even ask.  they knows they aint never getting nuttin. :)

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    10y
    I have a rental in Maryland and have an addenda that goes through the move out process and talks about deposit return per the state requiirements. I also includes language on what is considered wear and tear and what is damage so they know what can be deducted from the deposit. I sense the tenant is lazy and did a good amount of damage inside and wants you to hand them the check and they take off. Downside is they may completely trash the place as well. I recommend taking pictures as after she moves out she will say she did not do the damage Make sure pictures can show the date or be filed so they have the date on them then email or send them to her after the walk. Also explain in writing what damages there are immediately after
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  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I highly suggest that you resist getting into any arguments with her at all.  It would be great if your witness could also video record it all.

    Your mission:  Ignore her completely, as you walk though and write everything down that relates to the walk through, and say it out loud for the camera.  Ignore all of her arguments and attempts to discuss any of it.

    At the very beginning, for the camera, in front of the tenant,  I would say that because the tenant has threatened to not hand over the keys unless you immediately turn over her security deposit in cash, that you are deliberately not engaging in any arguments with the tenant, that you brought a witness, and you are putting everything in writing and also saying out loud what you have written down.  That you have explained the laws regarding returning security deposits, but the tenant has still said she would not hand over the keys until she receives her deposit, even though law says you have 45 days.

    When you are through with your walk-through, take a photo of the written walk-through document, unless you can otherwise make a copy right then and there.

    Turn to the tenant and ask for the keys.  If she refuses, turn to the camera and witness and say, "In front of the witness and the video recording, the tenant has refused to vacate."  To the tenant say, "As you are still in possession of the premises, I will begin eviction proceedings immediately."

    Then, if her tenancy is up, I would hand her the eviction notice right then and there in front of the witness and the camera.

    That's what I'd do.  I don't suffer bullies. 

  • Investor · Henderson, NC · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 208 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Jay,

    My point is that if the tenant sues they will say the landlord lied to them. Now Jay what is your point??

     Doesn't matter what they say. If they have no proof it didn't happen. That's how court works.

  • Investor · Henderson, NC · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 208 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    How do you know the tenant did not record everything with the landlord??

     If you don't lie it's not a problem. I'm not sure how this has ANY relevance to this post?? Just drop it...

  • Investor · Henderson, NC · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 208 votes
    10y

    I'm not disagreeing about anything. You seem to be having a fight entirely with yourself about something off topic.

    Did you forget your meds this morning?

  • Investor · Henderson, NC · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 208 votes
    10y

    LOL! Does anybody have any idea what John is talking about?

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    LOL! Does anybody have any idea what John is talking about?

     I choose not to feed him.

  • Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 328 posts · 97 votes
    10y

    Did she give written notice or just the phone call?

  • Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Why even meet with her at all if she is hostile? Have her write you a text or email saying she's vacated (your proof) and have her leave the keys in the mailbox or even locked in the unit if you have a set of keys?

    I just don't see why even bothering taking time out of your weekend to get potentially screamed at by some loon tenant.

    Like @Jay Hinrichs said, most of them are wind bags anyway. 

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Yvette M.:

    Did she give written notice or just the phone call?

     She gave written , certified mail . She hasnt changed the locks .   

    I am heading over in a few hours .

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    I got there a bit after 12 today , about half the house was empty . grass is still tall . She wants me to do the walk thru with people moving her stuff out .  I tell her she is not ready the house is not empty or cleaned .  She gets upset and tells me she will have to do the cleaning next week when she is off . " No , your lease is up today , You will have to wait the legal 45 days for your deposit , AND i see you painted some walls , someones crayon art work is all over the door , all the screens are missing , the grass wasnt cut , you wont be getting the full deposit back "   She then tells me that she will get most of it back , 2 gallons of paint is $50 , cutting the grass is 30 . and the screens arent her problem . It wont take you that long . You are a contractor .

    Well I have some news for you , I have to hire a painter to re paint , a lawn service to mow , and a handyman to replace the screens , and thats just what I see .  yes I am a contractor , and I am busy on jobs . So I will hire someone to do all this . And deduct from the security deposit . 

    She is a bit hot now , her boyfriend tells me " we need 3 estimates " 

    Sorry , all I have to do is give you is a copy of the invoice 

    Why cant you do the work to save me money ?      Me   ,  " I am saving you money , I am more expensive than the guys I am hiring " 

    I will be back at  6 pm to get you to sign the final form and to get the keys , If you are not here to hand me the keys and sign the form , I will have to file for eviction .  

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    I got there a bit after 12 today , about half the house was empty . grass is still tall . She wants me to do the walk thru with people moving her stuff out .  I tell her she is not ready the house is not empty or cleaned .  She gets upset and tells me she will have to do the cleaning next week when she is off . " No , your lease is up today , You will have to wait the legal 45 days for your deposit , AND i see you painted some walls , someones crayon art work is all over the door , all the screens are missing , the grass wasnt cut , you wont be getting the full deposit back "   She then tells me that she will get most of it back , 2 gallons of paint is $50 , cutting the grass is 30 . and the screens arent her problem . It wont take you that long . You are a contractor .

    Well I have some news for you , I have to hire a painter to re paint , a lawn service to mow , and a handyman to replace the screens , and thats just what I see .  yes I am a contractor , and I am busy on jobs . So I will hire someone to do all this . And deduct from the security deposit . 

    She is a bit hot now , her boyfriend tells me " we need 3 estimates " 

    Sorry , all I have to do is give you is a copy of the invoice 

    Why cant you do the work to save me money ?      Me   ,  " I am saving you money , I am more expensive than the guys I am hiring " 

    I will be back at  6 pm to get you to sign the final form and to get the keys , If you are not here to hand me the keys and sign the form , I will have to file for eviction .  

     Not exactly handled calmly - but you got er done.  Good luck at 6:00!

  • Susan H.Pro Member
    Investor/Landlord · NWA, AR · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 132 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    I got there a bit after 12 today , about half the house was empty . grass is still tall . She wants me to do the walk thru with people moving her stuff out .  I tell her she is not ready the house is not empty or cleaned .  She gets upset and tells me she will have to do the cleaning next week when she is off . " No , your lease is up today , You will have to wait the legal 45 days for your deposit , AND i see you painted some walls , someones crayon art work is all over the door , all the screens are missing , the grass wasnt cut , you wont be getting the full deposit back "   She then tells me that she will get most of it back , 2 gallons of paint is $50 , cutting the grass is 30 . and the screens arent her problem . It wont take you that long . You are a contractor .

    Well I have some news for you , I have to hire a painter to re paint , a lawn service to mow , and a handyman to replace the screens , and thats just what I see .  yes I am a contractor , and I am busy on jobs . So I will hire someone to do all this . And deduct from the security deposit . 

    She is a bit hot now , her boyfriend tells me " we need 3 estimates " 

    Sorry , all I have to do is give you is a copy of the invoice 

    Why cant you do the work to save me money ?      Me   ,  " I am saving you money , I am more expensive than the guys I am hiring " 

    I will be back at  6 pm to get you to sign the final form and to get the keys , If you are not here to hand me the keys and sign the form , I will have to file for eviction .  

     Matthew, please post an update when you. Best wishes!

  • Real Estate Investor · Milford, NE · Member since 2011 · 201 posts · 140 votes
    10y

    I wouldn't engage the tenant at all.......If they are being difficult, I quickly tell them that our attorney will be handling the lawsuit from here on out and post an eviction notice on their door immediately.  This keeps the he said-she said in check and is more professional. Plus it keeps your blood pressure down because you don't have to deal with that kind of person.  Generally when they see that you aren't playing around they comply (kind of). I just let them know that if they leave now and the place is good, there will be no problems, but once attorneys get involved that things may get expensive for them quickly. And I do exactly what I say I will do......It doesn't take long for the word to get around that you aren't a pushover.  Be nice and polite, calmly expain the facts to them, wish them a good day, and evict them immediatly. Don't go into that unit until an officer says you can. Then sue for whatever damages you acrue.  Be firm but fair. 

  • Investor · New Rochelle, NY · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    Let the tenant talk all they want. Meet her and do the walk through. By no means do you agree to hand over any security money. Let her keep the keys. You're changing locks anyway. Also, take multiple photos of damage with walk through and always save those photos in a file.

  • Investor · New Rochelle, NY · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    Also, Once they leave, after the walk through, plus with her notice, she relinquishes her rights to the house/apartment. thats why I want my tenants to provide notices via emails or letters. So I can save them

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    Went back at 6 oclock . Had the cop that lives across the street come over .  That changed things a bit . her boyfriend didnt say a word . She signed the move out form . Said she didnt think it was fair . I had the cop take pics from his phone of the whole place while she was there in the pics to email me .  I changed the locks and put up the no trespassing signs .  i think having the cop there helped . 

    the new tenant is one of the cops co workers . 

    life is always fun 

  • Investor · Cathedral City, CA · Member since 2014 · 481 posts · 170 votes
    10y

    Never get in these confrontations with tenants. If she gives you 30 days notice and threatens things, just don't say anything. Wait for her to vacate. Let her keep the keys but don't say anything. Once she has vacated, this is no longer a eviction. Once you are sure the unit is empty, then call a locksmith. If she really did move out the law is on your side. Then you take the inventory of damages and locksmith charges and issue the deposit refund if any with deductions very carefully with a detailed document.

  • Investor · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Brings back too many memories, makes me wonder why I am getting back into the rental business, lol.

  • Realtor · Sequim WA & Port Angeles, WA · Member since 2016 · 164 posts · 78 votes
    10y

    This is one of those situations that we all have to deal with sometimes. I guess  a lot of landlords just submit and give the full deposit back so as to avoid conflict and maybe that is what she was hoping for.

    I have had to deal with so many of these hostile people who are basically just angry and hostile at the world and it's very unpleasant. They usually trash the place, repaint the walls all kinds of crazy colors and let their dogs pee all over the entire unit. They know they are in the wrong so they take it out on you, the lucky landlord. I get anxiety just reading your original post.

    It's always better to avoid any confrontations or arguments with the tenant. I  send a written acknowledgement when I get a notice to vacate as well as a cleaning checklist, a letter explaining the process and a friendly reminder abount tenant responsibilities. I will also send an abbreviated version via email. Then 2 weeks before they vacate I send another friendly email reminder about cleaning, turning in keys, changing your address with the post office, etc. These "reminders" cut down on a lot of confusion after move out. They don't remove the conflict but they do lessen the drama.  Also when I do send out the itemized return of security deposit I always include copies of the actual invoices with the statement. This helps with the angry visits about why they are getting ripped off from the landlord. Hopefully you got your keys back and didn't have to take things any further, she may have just been testing you to see what see could get away with.

  • Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y

    Not sure why so many people are saying that you should avoid the scene.

    Are you afraid?

    There are times when an situation is engineered beyond your call, and it's time to roll up the sleeves, put your big boy pants on and go protect your investment.

    The tenant in this case has left the OP with so few choices, he had no choice but to grow some balls and get this sorted. As for all the fraidy-cats hiding behind bits of paper, and so forth, please.....

    You have a 5-6 figure investment and the best some of you can do is cower.

  • Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2016 · 668 posts · 209 votes
    10y

    Forget the keys, you don't need them. It's $35 and one hour to rekey my house, just a cost of doing business. Politely explain there is no discussion about the security until you see the vacant property. Take photos of the damage and save your receipts to show the judge, but it will never come that.

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