Investor · Latham, NY · Member since 2014 · 217 posts · 65 votes
Received an inquiry about my rental and they state that one member of the family doesnt smoke in the house. I told them that smoking on the property is not allowed. They said he doesnt smoke on the property. Im guessing this gives me the right to deny???
Rental Property Investor · Phila, PA · Member since 2015 · 276 posts · 111 votes
10y
Yes, it gives you the right to deny if that is part of your criteria. Forty+ year smoker here...been there, done that. when the cold weather hits, we'd hide in a corner of the basement...in our own house! I wouldn't believe them for a minute...the good intentions thing. We have a no smoking on the premises in our lease/addendum.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
I appreciate that they are upfront but if you don't allow smoking on the property, you don't allow it. I used to be okay with the no smoking in the house but after picking up butt after butt I am changing my mind. When this crew moves out I am done with it. You want to pollute your lungs, you're addicted I get it but Butts are trash don't throw on the ground or out your car window... I would just say we don't accept smokers.
Rental Property Investor · Phila, PA · Member since 2015 · 276 posts · 111 votes
10y
Yes, it gives you the right to deny if that is part of your criteria. Forty+ year smoker here...been there, done that. when the cold weather hits, we'd hide in a corner of the basement...in our own house! I wouldn't believe them for a minute...the good intentions thing. We have a no smoking on the premises in our lease/addendum.
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Step up to being a smoke-free property and not renting to smokers! Once a person tells me they or someone else in their household smokes, I tell them that is a deal breaker for us. We don't rent to smokers. Every time we've done so in the past, the person eventually did smoke inside. So I'm sorry, but they will need to look elsewhere.
Regardless of what smokers tell you, they are likely to smoke inside when the weather turns bad. Expect to see cigarette burns on the carpets, vinyl floors, window sills, bathrooms fixtures, countertops, etc. If they smoke outside, the second-hand smoke drifts and the cigarette butts appear on the ground. Cigarette butts tossed carelessly in a flower pot or flower bed have been known to cause major building fires. The cigarette smell lingers on the clothing of smokers and this smell seeps into the closets and interior of the home. Turning over an apartment/house in which smokers resided costs a huge amount of money. It still cost us about $2000 to remediate a 2-bedroom apartment after a light smoker lived there. The smoke permeates everywhere. Also, smoking is addictive. People who have this addiction are more likely to gravitate toward other addictive substances too, like drugs and alcohol. Lastly, you will attract better quality tenants if you have a strict no-smoking anywhere on the premises policy and make it clear that you do not rent to smokers. Smokers are not a protected class. And make your policy state "no smoking of any kind."
New Bedford, MA · Member since 2015 · 361 posts · 114 votes
10y
Anyone who admits to smoking would not be allowed to rent from me. Doesn't matter if they tell me they will travel to another city to smoke their cigs, I still won't rent to them. Of course they are going to sneak on here and there. Once they get more confortable, more will come and so on. Move on from them!
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@George Smith In my experience, if you don't rent to smokers and let them smoke outside, all you've done is eliminate the ones that tell the truth and you'll end up with a smoker who is unscrupulous enough to not say anything when they call about your place, and then do it anyways. BTW, I'm also in C & D class neighborhoods, so my tenant pool isn't great to begin with. If yours is, might be different
Investor/Landlord · NWA, AR · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 132 votes
10y
I made the mistake of prohibiting only smoking inside the residence. Judging from the butts I spent ONE HOUR picking up yesterday my now-departed tenants stood in the doorways to smoke and then tossed the butts into the grass, the landscaped beds, holly bushes, and just about anywhere else you can imagine.
New policy: I won't accept applications from any prospective occupant who is a smoker. Now I just need to figure out how to spell out in the lease/addendum that no guests, visitors, etc. will be allowed to smoke on the premises.
Rental Property Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2015 · 278 posts · 156 votes
10y
I agree with @Marcia Maynard, up until the addiction to drugs and booze thing.
I've had roommates who smoked. Even the one who only smoked outside worked in a bar and she always reeked, reeked of smoke. And then I got the surprise smoker roommate, who said she quit but at a point of stress after she had moved in started the habit again. And they will push the boundaries of "outside" when the weather stinks and they want to smoke. Apparently in the doorway is "outside".
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
On a related note... here are some tips for doing your periodic inspections, especially if you suspect smoking has occurred in the unit.
1. Replace the furnace filter and look at the color... a non-smoker apartment filter will look grey, a smoker apartment filter will be yellowed.
2. Open up the floor registers and clean them out, this is not only good for your HVAC system, but also will reveal things like cigarette butts (unauthorized smoking), pet food (unauthorized pets), and the occasional kid toy (this is okay, since finding a barbie shoe or the missing lego will make a child happy.)
3. Use a cleaning wipe to wipe the window casings, door casings, and walls near vents. If the wipe shows the yellow tinge of cigarette tar, you have a problem. Another good place to wipe is the back of a refrigerator, do so during your annual refrigerator maintenance when you are cleaning the coils. Smokers may try to cover up their smoking by wiping down walls, but they seem to always forget the back of the refrigerator.
4. Check the smoke detectors. Smokers will often disable these. Clean the casing with your wipes as part of your periodic maintenance and check the color that comes off. Cigarette tar will tinge it yellow.
5. Other techniques smokers use to cover up their smoking: incense, air fresheners, and area rugs placed strategically on top of of the wall-to-wall carpeting. Look under those throw rugs. We once found more than two dozen cigarette burns under a throw rug one time!
6. Occasionally stop by the tenant's home without warning, during the daytime only, and ring the doorbell/knock. If the tenant takes an unusually long time to get to the door and/or opens it only a crack when they see you, there could be something going on that they don't want you to see, such as breaking property rules... unauthorized smoking, unauthorized pet, unauthorized occupants, etc.
7. Use your sense of smell. If you smell cigarette smoke, marijuana smoke, or something else burning, track it to the source. Interestingly, most smokers can't tell that they smell of smoke, they are desensitized to it. However, the odor can be glaringly present to non-smokers. When interviewing a prospective tenant on site, be aware if their clothes have tobacco/weed odor or their car smells of of cigarette smoke or other foul smells, as that is what they will be bringing into your unit.
Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
I can understand the desire not to have smoking inside your units. I am not sure I would go as far as unannounced visits. That is borderline harrassment and might be considered worse than the smoking offense in the first place. You should respect your tenants basic privacy rights and unannounced random visits violate what is considered kosher in most locales. Good luck!
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
@Matt R. Forgive me if you thought I would ask to enter a home unannounced. I was saying to ring the doorbell/knock. No intention to enter, just to engage in conversation at the doorway. It's only harassment if done repeatedly and in a manner that's considered disturbing and/or threatening. Although, I can see how you could think that was related to our periodic inspections because of how I worded the intro to my list. Items #6 and #7 are actually unrelated to my periodic inspections, so perhaps don't belong with that list. If the tenant is not expecting to see me on their doorstep, they are also not prepared to cover-up their rule breaking behavior. That's why if I had good reason to suspect trouble brewing, it would be one approach worth trying.
When we do periodic inspections (at least twice a year) and enter the residence, not only do we give our tenants legal notice to enter, but we ask them for a date and time that is convenient for them and set an appointment.
@George Smith In my experience, if you don't rent to smokers and let them smoke outside, all you've done is eliminate the ones that tell the truth and you'll end up with a smoker who is unscrupulous enough to not say anything when they call about your place, and then do it anyways. BTW, I'm also in C & D class neighborhoods, so my tenant pool isn't great to begin with. If yours is, might be different
@jason hirko. If you have the no smoking in the lease and the unscrupulous ones smoke, you have reason to post a quit notice. (Being a former smoker, I wouldn't consider renting a place where, as a smoker, a lease said I couldn't smoke.) My rental is in a C neighborhood as well and I have no smoking in the lease. Never had a prospect denied for smoking as the only reason they were denied. I make mention, during the showing, of no smokers/smoking just like no animals are permitted.
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Mags S. I don't deny someone who smokes because they call and ask if they can smoke outside. If I did, all I'd be left with is people who didn't ask and just smoked there anyway.
@Matt R. Forgive me if you thought I would ask to enter a home unannounced. I was saying to ring the doorbell/knock. No intention to enter, just to engage in conversation at the doorway. It's only harassment if done repeatedly and in a manner that's considered disturbing and/or threatening. Although, I can see how you could think that was related to our periodic inspections because of how I worded the intro to my list. Items #6 and #7 are actually unrelated to my periodic inspections, so perhaps don't belong with that list. If the tenant is not expecting to see me on their doorstep, they are also not prepared to cover-up their rule breaking behavior. That's why if I had good reason to suspect trouble brewing, it would be one approach worth trying.
When we do periodic inspections (at least twice a year) and enter the residence, not only do we give our tenants legal notice to enter, but we ask them for a date and time that is convenient for them and set an appointment.
Right on and understood. At least in LA, CA most I think would not attempt the unannouced door knocking snooping tactic. I am sure you know how to make random door knocking work just fine without issues still. I have heard of LLs visiting prospective tenants current residence on very short notice to fill out something "missing" from lease application. You get the picture.