Attic Insulation on Rental - Install or not?
Investor · Edmond, OK · Member since 2015 · 18 posts · 0 votes
Hi all, I had some tenants move in last month to a 3/2 SFR (I just closed on the property a month prior) and I really like them a lot. Good people. Anyways, the first day in, we realized the hot water heater needed replacing. The second day in, they realized that the house was not cooling to the temperature they had the thermostat set at (mind you we're experiencing a 100+ degree heat wave this summer and summers here are always hot); however, the house felt cool and the HVAC folks checked the unit and everything was running accordingly.
Long story short, I told them that I'd look at insulation in the attic as a possible solution. I received a quote and was wondering, since the equipment itself works fine, and adding the insulation will reduce their utility bills by 15-18%/month, does it make sense to ask them what they'd like to do (i.e. ask for some help in the bill) since it's not absolutely necessary to the house? Or what is my approach?
Thank you.
It's a good investment to make sure all of your properties have sufficient insulation and are weatherized appropriately, regardless of who lives there. When we make improvements to our units, it becomes another selling point. Very few prospective tenants ask in advance about how well insulated a building is, but if there is a deficiency, they will let you know.
When we get a heat wave, I encourage tenants to block as much sun coming through south facing windows as they can. Good trees can be strategically planted to provide beneficial shade too.
Step up and do for the property what you would do for your own home to make it comfortable. Don't look to charging the tenants for this either. Sometimes the local utility district will offer incentives that will bring you some savings. It's a business expense that will pay you back many times over. Doing this now will really win your tenants over and be great for the relationship. Good start!
@Account Closed the water heater was completely dead; it didn't get water warm whatsoever and was leaking and continued putting the pilot light out. They actually were looking at solutions to correct it before they called me and two plumbers confirmed it had to be replaced.
@Account Closed the water heater was completely dead; it didn't get water warm whatsoever and was leaking and continued putting the pilot light out. They actually were looking at solutions to correct it before they called me and two plumbers confirmed it had to be replaced.
That puts them in a different light for me. I guess I'm feeling mellower this morning, but I can see now why they might be worried about the place being a "dump" with lots of problems. They move and the water heater is dead, then they aren't getting cool enough, so in their minds the place needs a bunch of maintenance.
If you can afford the insulation in the attic, it might be a good idea to go ahead and do it. But, keep in mind that once a tenant starts thinking that the place needs a bunch of work, they will usually get picky.
I learned this when applicants would insist on seeing a unit before it was ready. I would get referrals from my current tenants when I had vacancies coming up. Even if I'd warn the applicant that the place wasn't ready and that it was going to be painted, new carpet, whatever, and they'd insist that was no problem, they just wanted to get an idea of the space, etc., they inevitably would look worried about everything, and start pointing out unnecessary fixes that they thought should "also" be fixed. And they'd find things after they moved in. It's weird, but when they get that vision in their head that a place needs work, they'll keep finding more things to fix that they probably never would have worried about if they'd only seen the place in tip top show condition.
And then, of course, there are the tenants who are just high maintenance. Either way, I would anticipate these guys finding more work for you to do. But, if you want to go ahead with the insulation, then after that tell them there's no money in the budget for future upgrades, that might work. But, I think you should expect to deal with setting a boundary soon :-)
I am in Tulsa and had a tenant ask me to do this last year. The house was roughly 1,000 sq ft and it cost me less than $200 to do it (I just looked at my old receipt). I did it myself...with my tenants help. He is a handyman by trade so that helped :). It literally took us about 15 minutes to do the whole house and was really easy. I bought the blown-in AttiCat brand from Lowes and I bought 10 bags so I could get the blower rental for free...then I took back several bags because I didn't need that much.
I also had to tell my tenant to stop turning the A/C OFF during the day when he wasn't home! That is bad for the house (humidity) and bad for the A/C unit to run that hard.
Was it worth it from a cost standpoint...no. But, my renter was happy and to echo others...I may have saved some wear & tear on the HVAC units. I do believe I probably will recover some or all of that investment when I sell the property. I don't think it will help me get more for rent but, I do think that if I have a prospective tenant that is interested then this is a value-add that may help me beat out other properties. It also shows future tenants that you take good care of your property.
I would definitely not do the foam wall insulation. We don't need that in OK and IMO it is risky...look up foam insulation nightmares online. It. Is. Scary.
I am surprised that I didn't see anybody suggest that the tenant just go get themselves a window unit to supplement the central A/C. It will cost them but it will help cool the house and they can take it with them when they leave.
If you feel you need to "charge" them you could always ask for something in return. Maybe you need them to do some other work around the house like clean the windows, shampoo the carpet, declutter, trim tree branches, etc. I have a clause in my lease that says that if the tenant asks for more than $200 in aggregate improvements then I have the right to renegotiate rent. I have not used this clause yet though.
I live in Oklahoma also. We reinsulated the attic last fall with blown in insulation from Lowe's. Our house is so much easier to keep cool this summer and our utility bills have decreased. Our house is about 1500 sf built in 1974. The insulation we had before was very thin. We bought 10 bags, got a free machine rental from Lowe's and blew it all in within a couple of hours. I would gladly do it again!. If you decide to do it warn the tenants that it may get dusty while you are blowing it. For us, it was very much worth the $200 we spent. I think we have saved that much on electric bills in the last 9 months!
you have to do it! It's the #1 way to cool the house off. I just did 8 units...some went from unbearable to cold. It will save the Ac units too. I'm in okc and I can't wait for cool weather...this summer is rough on my upper units. I'm even considering 2' blinds, and even solar screens. But insulation is best, then it's the Windows. You have to do it.
Ok all you Oklahoman's... I want to do it but not myself. Can anyone recommend an installer? Even Angie's list has failed me.
In OKC metro, I use 31W Insulation. http://www.31w.com/locations
I have found residents who have large utility bills tend to use the bill as an excuse to not pay rent on time. Also, blown in insulation is pretty inexpensive. Just do it and you won't have to do it again.
Which means they still need to pay rent on time, ha. We cover this types of events in our "Rent Talk" before they actually rent the property and we hand over the keys.
Agree on insulation, it's pretty cheap and it does make a little difference.
Ron
Renascent Mastermind
I agree with the posters on improving your attic insulation, but nobody has mentioned heat sources from within the home. Quite often, people's air conditioning systems end up warring with people's lighting systems. For example, if you're using incandescent and/or halogen bulbs(most people do,) while in operation, ten 75 to 100 watt bulbs function as a small space heater would. Compact fluorescent bulbs are better, but they are not as good as the best solution- LED bulbs.
If your tenants have the cheap incandescent bulbs in their fixtures, I'd recommend swapping them out at your own expense- I won't link these, as I don't think BP likes links to outside pages, but I'd recommend Vivid Lighting's 60 watt replacement bulb, 2700 Kelvin, they're about $3.50 each on Amazon and use only 8 watts, or GE Lighting's 13909 bulb(replaces a 100 watt incandescent while only using 16 watts.) Stick to 2700 K on that one too- anything higher might appear too industrial/white. Hyperikon also makes pretty sweet bulbs, stay between 2700K and 3000K there as well. Any of these are easily searchable on Amazon.
If your tenants pay their electric bill, they'll thank you- the bulbs last for decades and will immediately reduce their electric bill- in summers, there's a double benefit as the air conditioning will not need to run as often. And if you swap these out- spending very little money and not much time, either- your tenants will really think you care, which is more valuable than anything I've written above. And guess what? They'll be right.
Michael
(if you have any special bulbs- like R7s 78mm or 118mm halogens, or T8, etc, please respond to this post and I'll give you some solutions for those)
@Bret Weigel - here in North Texas, we have some great programs that provide FREE blown-in insulation, as well as weather-stripping, sealing windows and other energy-efficiency improvements. This program is sponsored by the local monopoly company that controls the electricity infrastructure (either Oncor or Texas-New Mexico Power, depending on house location). If the house is ALL-electric, then you can get the whole package. If it has any gas, you can typically get all but the insulation for free, but the insulation is not covered. Oncor wants to reduce the strain on the grid. Long-story to get to my point: perhaps there are similar programs in OK?
We had an issue at a rental where we had installed a new HVAC during renovation - the house was not cooling properly once the first tenants moved in in the middle of July. Had insulation blown-in and the problem was solved. Tenants were happy and thought we were the best. All-electric house = cost us nothing.
By the same token - you and your tenants should be aware: A/Cs can only cool so far relative to the ambient temperature. My A/C guy tells me anywhere from 25-30 degrees below the heat index. Not temperature, but heat index since the humidity plays a part...
Good luck!
Andy
The next thing you will hear from the tenants is that the electric bill is too high , and once winter hits they will say its too cold in the house . I dont have air conditioning in 3 of my places , I make the tenants supply their own window units . Saves headaches . Tenants ask " how much are the utilities ? " I tell them that all depends on you , you pay more to be warm and toasty , and you pay more to be cool on a 100 degree day . it cost money to run an electric range and an electric dryer . Take long hot showers , pay the bill .
As far as the insulation goes , I am sure the house isnt new , someone else lived in it for years , if it was good enough for them its still good now .