Financial services executive · Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 609 posts · 341 votes
I have a number of multifamily buildings that are 100+ years old and in the market where they're located I pay for the water. One three unit building is using $1,200 per quarter in water. I believe part of the issue is the old toilets which use more water. Even when we've replaced the flappers if it doesn't drop down exactly right the toilet will run.
What are my options for high efficiency toilets? Will the toilets that flush under a gallon each time be compatible with the varying 100 year old plumbing that is in these structures? I've seen toilets that do not have flappers in the $250 range - does whatever they're using wear out and allow the toilet to run? Any other ideas?
I'm willing to spend some money to upgrade these things because I will make it back on the water over time. Please help me figure out the best product for my needs. THANKS BP!
There's a kit you can get - not sure what it's called - which pressurizes from the water supply pressure and is discharged by the flush handle. One good burst of pressure into the bowl, then it re-pressurizes itself from the water supply pressure.
Might be worth exploring.
Replacing flappers can sometimes require replacing what it seats into so it seals properly and allows the tank to fill.
I've also seen issues where, even when the tank is filled to overflowing (down the tube), the water valve takes too long to shut off. Where I worked most recently, the water drained down the overflow tube for almost three minutes before the water valve finally shut off. As of June 2, it was still not fixed.
Do these low flow toilets have the same flushing power as a conventional one? I'm wondering if your savings on the water bill might get cancelled out by extra costs for unclogging toilets on a regular basis.
Toilets are only one type of leak-maker. Make sure your faucets are not leaking. I would first fix running toilets before replacing them.
I bought a high efficiency toilet for my home. I'd love to have my old water gusher back! This model was touchless. The touchless feature broke 3 times! (Battery operated electronics in water tank = bad idea). It also routinely required a couple of flushes, even for just liquid waste. Maybe it is a bad model, but I don't know that I am saving a lot with it.
You probably need to do a cost comparison. My guess is it will take a long time to recover your investment if the toilet is not running. You could guess the toilet flushes 4 times per day per person in the house and you save 1 gallon per flush with your new toilet. How much is a gallon of water? How much will your new toilet cost including installation? You can probably get a good deal if you are buying 100+ of them.
You can offset your new toilet cost by selling your old toilets. Those big flushers are worth something to someone who really doesn't want the new toilets that don't flush as well.
I've read that you can save 30% on your water and sewer costs if you make the tenant pay for the water. You may get a better return on water meters and transferring water responsibility to your tenants.
Your internal plumbing will be as fine as it is now with your new toilet. The new toilet releases less water than your current toilet.
There's a kit you can get - not sure what it's called - which pressurizes from the water supply pressure and is discharged by the flush handle. One good burst of pressure into the bowl, then it re-pressurizes itself from the water supply pressure.
Might be worth exploring.
Replacing flappers can sometimes require replacing what it seats into so it seals properly and allows the tank to fill.
I've also seen issues where, even when the tank is filled to overflowing (down the tube), the water valve takes too long to shut off. Where I worked most recently, the water drained down the overflow tube for almost three minutes before the water valve finally shut off. As of June 2, it was still not fixed.
We have "elderly" SFH (most close to a decade old) and put in high efficiency (1.1 -1.2 gpf) toilets from Lowes/Home depot that only run about $100 each. Nice thing with these is that they tend to come with everything included although we've stopped using wax rings and have gone to using wax less ones instead.
Do the flappers eventually wear out? Yes but we change flappers routinely between tenants (and our tenants pay for their own water).
We also encourage tenants not to use items such as those bleach pellets that you drop into the tanks to keep the toilet bowls clean and/or turn the toilet water blue, explaining the bleach tends to wear out the rubber in the flappers faster.
What we wound up with were the Kohler toilets which use an "Aqua Piston" technology instead of a traditional flapper. They were $270 apiece and with rents in the neighborhood at around $550-650 I undoubtedly have the nicest toilets on the block now.
They use a scant 1.28 GPF. Our cost for water and sewer runs $0.0065 per gallon. We had already tried twice to fix the old toilets and even with new flappers the flapper would not seat correctly and the toilet would run for hours or days. The building is using about 80,000 more gallons per quarter than it should be.
We had the city come out and monitor the meter for us while we systematically shut off every spigot and determined its only the toilets that were drawing that extra usage. Also having an actual plumber to come out to correct whatever was wrong that we couldn't get the flappers right would have been at least as much as one, possibly two toilets.
If this does solve our problem the toilets will pay for themselves in 1-2 years and every flush after that is money in the bank ;). I will come back when next quarter's water bill arrives to report if this was the silver bullet. Thanks to everyone for your advice.
It seems you had better luck than I have. I have found the new low gallon-age toilets to increase the chance of plugging up the sewer line. There is not enough water to properly flow the sewage down the pipe. I have had good luck with simply replacing the water stopper when they begin to leak. My plumber has also recommended to me to not use the low gallon toilets as he has had lots of sewer blockages when installed.
We were told at the store it would be an issue @Jerry W. Only time will tell of course. These do have a unique thing that shoots the water down with some force and then fills back up for the next flush. The advertisement for it shows them flushing a bucket of golf balls. I asked the plumbing people at Lowes and Home Depot and was told it should be compatible with our plumbing. I had to do something, couldn't keep paying $1200-1500 per quarter for water. If this doesn't work we'll try something else.
@JR T. , I know its been a while, but how did you end up making out with this? I have a bunch of units that I am about to swap out the toilets and had the same concerns as you. Much appreciated. Aloha!