Inherited Our First Problem Tenant, Please offer any suggestions!

Inherited Our First Problem Tenant, Please offer any suggestions!

Investor · Lyndonville, VT · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 14 votes

My partner and I just closed on a three unit the end of July. We purchased the building from someone who was not a good landlord. Two of the tenants in the building are still on his year lease. The lease is very vague and only states that rent is due on the first of the month. There is no late fee or grace period. When we closed on the building I wrote a letter to both of the tenats and asked them to contact me so we can discuss the lease and make any other arrangments. Only one of the tenats contacted me.

Last month (the first month to collect rent) I tried to get in contact with one of the tenants. I didn't have her contact information so I stopped by. After the fifth day of the month I gave her a late rent notice with my number which essentially said if she didn't pay rent we would start the eviction process. She called me and said that she couldn't have rent until the following week because she gets paid every other week. 

This month she said she was going to have rent on the first of the month, and I arranged a time to go and pick it up. On the day I was supposed to pick it up she sent me a message stating that she couldn't pay rent until the 17th because her car died and she needed to fix it to get to work. Via text message I let her know that she could pay rent on the 17 this month but on the following months she needed to have it in by the 5th and if it was not, the proper time and notices would be given for her to pay rent or vacate. 

Via text, she essentially lost it!!! She said she new her tenant rights and was going to legal aid as soon as it opened. She accused us of discriminating against her. 

Needles to say, we will also be in touch with our lawyer. 

As a new landlord, part of me thinks this could have been avoided if I gave her more slack, but the other part of me knows that if I don't set the limits and tell her what is expected she will continue to try to take advantage of us. 

Any thoughts on what I should do next, or what I could have done differently?

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Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
10y

@Katherine Rossell More slack is never the answer.

She has a current written lease which states rent is due on the 1st. The previous landlord let her get away with paying late and when you took over you let her pay late twice as well so this is what you should do.

  1. Send her a 30 day written notice explaining that next month you will enforce the rental due date that is in the written lease.
  2. When she hasn't paid rent to you by the due date begin the eviction process.
  3. Hire an attorney and evict her.
  4. Renovate her unit.
  5. Move in a  new tenant that abides by the rules.
  6. Repeat.
  7. Retire. 
  8. Buy a boat. : )
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  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y

    @Katherine Rossell More slack is never the answer.

    She has a current written lease which states rent is due on the 1st. The previous landlord let her get away with paying late and when you took over you let her pay late twice as well so this is what you should do.

    1. Send her a 30 day written notice explaining that next month you will enforce the rental due date that is in the written lease.
    2. When she hasn't paid rent to you by the due date begin the eviction process.
    3. Hire an attorney and evict her.
    4. Renovate her unit.
    5. Move in a  new tenant that abides by the rules.
    6. Repeat.
    7. Retire. 
    8. Buy a boat. : )
  • Retired Landlord/Author · Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    THE EMOTIONAL ASPECTS OF DOING AN EVICTION by Nancy Neville

    I feel very strongly about the eviction process and how it is handled. Because, if you handle the eviction process incorrectly and do it your own way, or take matters into your own hands, it could mean, a law suit against you. It could mean jail time. Or, it could mean having your case dismissed. Whenever we are involved in an eviction, emotions run high and it’s a very sad and dangerous time.

    When we are new in this business we have a tendency to make a lot of mistakes and that’s only natural. After all, that’s how we learn…. is by our mistakes. But the biggest mistake that I see new landlords make, as well as seasoned landlords, is their reluctance to file for eviction (that Notice to Quit for Non Payment of Rent) IMMEDIATELY and on the very first day rent is late.

    When I ask them why that is they tell me that they feel it is unreasonable. They say that it’s not right. They say that it’s not fair. They say that they would feel embarrassed to send out a Notice to Quit the very first day rent is late. They say they can’t do it, won’t do it. And if they did do it, they would feel guilty. So my mission today is to take away that guilt.

    Choosing the right Tenant can be very crucial as to how many evictions we may possible encounter. The better the Tenant, the less evictions we may possibly have, so it’s very important that we screen our applicants more thoroughly than we have ever screened them before.

    As I’ve said earlier, for me the screening process begins the moment that an applicant walks through the doorway of my open house, because I take note of how they act, of what they say, of the questions they ask me, of their mannerisms and how their children behave. And after all the applicants have filled out an application, I take the applications home with me and I do a more thorough investigation.

    I do a credit check to see how they pay their bills. If they pay their bills well, chances are they will pay me well.

    The next thing I do is I verify their employment. If they have been at their job at least a year or more, it tells me that they are stable and COLLECTIBLE! They must be COLLECTIBLE! If they are collectible you can sue them, garnish their wages, tax refunds or place a lien on their properties. It is the most important thing to check for… so make sure they are COLLECTIBLE!

    Not only choosing the right tenant for your home is important in how many evictions you may possibly encounter, but having a good landlord/tenant relationship helps as well. Because if a Tenant likes you and your property, chances are they’re going to do everything they can to stay. From paying their rent on time, to putting you first when it comes to paying their bills. And I believe that good landlord/tenant relationship begins at the Open House as well. Because when the tenant applies for your home, they are actually saying that they like you and your house. When you pick that Tenant for your home, you are saying you like that Tenant and that family and so far a good landlord/tenant relationship has begun and that is good.

    At the signing of the lease we get to know each other better.

    Allowing tenants to pay their rent anytime only hurts the landlord. We must remember that we cannot even begin the eviction process unless that NOTICE TO QUIT has been sent. When you allow your tenants to pay their rent anytime during a rental month you are allowing your tenant to rewrite the lease agreement and that could cause your case to be dismissed.

    It is very important when we set forth rules and regulations and rental due dates that we live by those rules. It’s not only beneficial to us but it also gives the Tenant some stability by knowing exactly when their rent is due and what will happen if it’s not received.

    Time is of the essence! Time means money!

    When we prepare our tenants to receive that Notice to Quit on the very first day rent is late, there shouldn’t be any reason to feel guilty about it or not to do it. IT’S JUST A NOTICE!

    Going through the eviction process affects us in many ways.

    Not only are we disappointed because the Tenant didn’t work out, but we’re pretty worried now to boot.

    Not only are we worried, but we’re pretty angry because it took a lot of work to get our rental units into shape again. It took a lot of time and money and we have a lot invested in our property.

    We’re worried now about having to go to court. We’re worried now about our financial status, because we still have to pay our mortgage and taxes and our own bills. We’re worried about damages they may do to our place because of retaliation. We’re worried about being sued. What if we say or do something wrong? And by the time it is all over with, and the eviction process is long, we are absolutely exhausted! And yet, we worry about sending out that notice to quit on the very first day rent is late! Unbelievable!

    Some landlords don’t have a written rental or lease agreement. If it is not in writing the Lease is automatically a Month to Month Rental Agreement. When we evict someone we are actually evicting not just a tenant but anyone who is in POSSESSION of the house.

    I’m sure most of you have seen the movie Pacific Heights. Michael Keaton didn’t sign a lease. He took possession of the apartment without the landlord’s permission, yet the Landlord had to evict him just as though he were a normal tenant.

    If a bum off the street broke into your house and took possession of your home, you would have to evict them just like anyone else.

    It is very important to remember that a Notice to Quit is exactly that, A NOTICE. It is a notice notifying your tenant of an action that may be taken against them if they don’t comply with this or that. Remember we cannot begin the eviction process until that notice has been sent.

    Because an eviction is a legal process to evict everyone who is in POSSESSION of the home, we need to list the names of everyone who resides in the home. But most times, we don’t know everyone’s who is living in the home let alone their names, so what do we do?

    In my state I am allowed to add the words ALL OCCUPANTS. By adding the words ALL OCCUPANTS to all my legal papers, it assures me that I am evicting everyone who is in possession of my home, including the dog!

    The final stage of the Eviction Process means removing the tenant physically from the premises and this is truly a very sad and dangerous time.

    From the moment you turn that Notice to Quit over to the court house and file the Summons and Complaint, you NEVER EVER want to enter the rental unit or confront the tenant verbally or physically.

    The only way I communicate with my Tenant from this point forward (if I have to at all) is in writing! If you do otherwise, and enter the premises and you see damages, or don’t like what they have to say to you, and you take matters into your own hands, and try to do things your way, it could mean a law suit against you, jail time, or having your case dismissed. This is a very dangerous time. EMOTIONS RUN HIGH and this is why a court appointed official called a Bailiff will go out to the home and remove the tenant from the premises and Not YOU!

    We must remember that being a Landlord is a business. It is a business of fixing up homes and renting them out and fixing them up again and again and again. It is a business of evictions, of lawsuits and court scenes and injustices. If we can accept and expect all of these things then we will be successful. But if we can’t, then we will fail.

    Remember…being a Landlord is not for everyone. If it was, everyone would be doing it.

  • Investor · Lyndonville, VT · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    @James Wiseand @Account Closed thanks for the advise. Sometimes all you need is some other people to validate what you are thinking. I also forgot to mention that her lease agreement ends September 30 so we could also give her a 30 day notice to vacate due to the expiration of the lease. Is that correct? Do I have my lawyer give her a notice to quite for non payment of rent or can I give that to her? 

    Which path should I go down. Ask her to leave because the lease expires or next month start the eviction process for late rent? If she choses not to move because of the expiration of her lease, would I have to then go through the eviction process?

  • Fontana, CA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    1. Get a new Month2Month agreement or Annual lease with terms that are favorable to you. ( The old lease is no longer valid legal due to the fact that the contract (rental agreement is not with you. Previous owners are no longer property owners of that property.) (Review your rental agreement to make sure it is legal in your area{state}.

    2. If they refuse to sign new rental agreement give them your state required notice to vacate (unlawful detainer). (Hire an attorney)

    3. If I were you I would offer them 3 free months to move out voluntarily with notary; and file that agreement with the court. (Make sure attorney write agreement.)

    4. Once you get a judgement make sure to screen new tenants e.g {income, previous landlord, employer, credit check all 3 bureaus.

    5. Take pictures of everything in the unit before renting it out so in-case the new tenants claim something was wrong before they moved in you got proof to the contrary.

    6. Always do written notice to inspect unit every couple months to make all necessary work and extermination to keep unit habitable and note those expenses for each tenant.

  • Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2016 · 668 posts · 209 votes
    10y

    She's already given you attitude and disrespect. Your time and her word mean nothing. You're probably bound by the inherited lease which expires 9/30 so notify her you are not renewing the lease and she must leave. No more texts, everything in writing through your lawyer to protect everybody's rights. Get a new MTM lease and have your lawyer review it for your next well-screened tenant. Good luck.

  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 811 posts · 420 votes
    10y
    Give her notice that you are not renewing her lease that expires at the end of this month. Make sure you know your state's laws regarding proper notice. Even if you move forward with the eviction it would probably be hard to get her out in the next 25 days or so. But I would continue moving forward legally in case she does not vacate at the end of the month.
  • Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    If/when this tenant goes to Legal Aid (with her lease hopefully) Legal Aid will point out that her lease requires a rent payment due the first of the month.   This is not "discrimination".

    None of this business is your fault except, perhaps, giving her until the 17th to pay her rent this month instead of immediately filing for an eviction.  However; when Legal Aid sets this woman straight regarding owed rent dates she may pay on the 17th and then "get her act" together.

    The fault lies with the previous landlord (I'm guessing) who let these tenants slide regarding rent payments.

    Now with this business of terminating her lease.  You need to decide how quickly at this time of year you can replace this tenant.  Is it difficult to do in the fall/winter?   If so...and she pays on the 17th do not renew her lease when it ends 9/30 but allow her to go month to month.  HOWEVER...if she does not pay on October 1 you begin the process of eviction.

    If you believe it is easier to find a replacement tenant then simply provide the appropriate written notice not to renew this lease.  It may be too late to do it this month if a 30 day written notice is required.

    Keep in mind IF you go month to month with this tenant and you wish to terminate this type of lease, it's a 60 day written notice to her....and as long as 90 days for your state if someone has resided there for a longer period of time.

    Attached is some good information regarding landlord/tenant laws for your state:

    http://www.rentalcodes.org/who-are-you/landlords/t...

    Good luck...


    Gail

  • Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 328 posts · 97 votes
    10y

    give her notice to vacate. You want tenants who cooperate and pay on time. She can pay the next LL on the 17th.

  • Rental Property Investor · Maryville, TN · Member since 2009 · 529 posts · 414 votes
    10y

    All good advice and please, if you ever purchase property with existing tenants, get tenant estopple documents signed as a condition of sale, which is basically declaratory statements on the current terms of the lease!

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Miguel Garcia:

    1. Get a new Month2Month agreement or Annual lease with terms that are favorable to you. ( The old lease is no longer valid legal due to the fact that the contract (rental agreement is not with you. Previous owners are no longer property owners of that property.) (Review your rental agreement to make sure it is legal in your area{state}.

    2. If they refuse to sign new rental agreement give them your state required notice to vacate (unlawful detainer). (Hire an attorney)

    3. If I were you I would offer them 3 free months to move out voluntarily with notary; and file that agreement with the court. (Make sure attorney write agreement.)

    4. Once you get a judgement make sure to screen new tenants e.g {income, previous landlord, employer, credit check all 3 bureaus.

    5. Take pictures of everything in the unit before renting it out so in-case the new tenants claim something was wrong before they moved in you got proof to the contrary.

    6. Always do written notice to inspect unit every couple months to make all necessary work and extermination to keep unit habitable and note those expenses for each tenant.

    I could not disagree more with your 3rd point - why on earth would you want to reward bad behavior with a 3-month free rent gift?  This tenant is currently (and apparently has a history of being) in violation of the rental agreement.  In response to a much too lenient (in my opinion) proposal to accommodate her situation, she gets bent out of shape.  Plenty of reason to start eviction in my opinion, plus, her lease expires anyway.  What could you possibly gain from giving her 3 months free rent?

    It's bad enough that we (myself included) often enable bad behavior, but we certainly don;t need to actively encourage and reward it.

  • Gardiner, ME · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 177 votes
    10y
    The more I hear about people starting the eviction process, the more I feel there is a giant divide between what the landlords know and the tenants. I try to put myself in the tenants shoes and I hear, "If I'm 5 days late they are going to try to throw me out! That's BS!" I know that telling them you are going to start the eviction process is accurate. But it's charged with emotion and most probably only have a 10% understanding of what that means. Instead of telling them that you will evict tell them all of this. 1. The bank requires the mortgage to be paid on the 5th. They don't care whether you got paid or not. You signed a contract just like the tenant did. If you don't get the rent on time that means you have to float their payment with your money. 2. You want to provide a good home at a fair price. You have to act responsibly and so does the tenant. 3. You can understand her financial troubles but you need to act more professional than the previous landlord. If she doesn't think that's fair or wants out, you can talk about her leaving her lease early. 4. Then talk about how eviction goes. Tell them yes you start it after 5 days but that's to protect yourself if they aren't going to pay ever so you don't get stuck paying their way indefinitely. If they pay then it goes away but your going to have to file every time it goes to the 5th. I think a little bit of understanding that you aren't just a mean landlord goes a long way. Explain the situation, have the discussion, then you can be firm and fair.
  • Investor · Halifax, Nova Scotia · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    If you are permitted to give her notice to vacate by the end of September, that would definitely be the right thing to do.

    She mentioned "she knows her rights" which means she could get some support from a legal aid lawyer.

    Once a tenant is in, they have the power, so it is really important to have a well documented process.  The tenancy boards have a high expectation of landlords and property managers to know and follow the rules.

    In the future when you buy a property, if you are suspect of the current tenant situation, you can ask for vacant possession, so on closing date the property is empty, or make a deal that a particular unit is vacant.

    The current landlord could have paid the current tenant some cash to leave before you took over the building.

    Good luck, and the great news is that once this small hurdle is overcome, you will be able to place a well screened brand new tenant.

    Michael P Currie

    [Moderator's Note:  Removed self-promotion URL from post]

  • Investor · Lyndonville, VT · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    It's really interesting to read all of these replies to this post. 

    In Vermont we need to give 14 days written notice to pa the rent and then I can file for an eviction. If I give a 5 day warning letter, does that mean the next letter I give is for 14 days or for 11 days in addition to the 5 for the tenant to pay rent. 

  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 477 posts · 426 votes
    10y

    @Katherine Rossell - Next property, either stipulate it's empty when you close (if you know the current lease is weak, which you should have here) or if you think any of the tenants are trouble in any way. OR budget $1,000-$2,000 per unit for evictions, plus whatever work you think the units will need when you turn them correctly. If you're dealing directly with the seller, give them the choice. 

    Depends on the property and how much cash you have in the bank (i.e. do you want to roll the dice on getting a couple of months rent, or buy an empty building that needs to be leased up) but inherited tenants seem to be some of the roughest. 

    Good luck!

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    This tenant has uttered the dreaded "I know my rights" statement which translated means : I don't give a dam what you think your rights are as a landlord I intend to make your life as miserable as possible. In my books this is a straight up threat and I do not tolerate tenants threatening me. Terminate them at the end of the lease.

    No point in explaining anything to a tenant, they do not care and it is none of their business.

    1) Your mortgage not their concern or problem, you are a rich landlord so why should I care.

    2) a lease is a legal contract that must be adhered to.

    3) a tenants personal financial issues are none of your concern or any of a landlords business.

    4) tell them - no pay no stay

    Have the discussion about how fair of a landlord you are and how you expect all tenants to follow the lease to the letter then when they do not follow the rules they are not surprised to receive a eviction notice.

  • Gardiner, ME · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 177 votes
    10y
    Greg S. Landlording through intimidation is one way to go. All I'm saying is that most people think when you file a pay or quit notice that you are trying to throw them out. Of course it is the first step but it's not the typical result. All I'm saying is to explain your expectations and deescalate the situation. It's basic customer service. Then at the end of the lease you should probably terminate (if they make it that long.) I'm not talking about being a nice guy, or even delaying the eviction process. Just get them to play nice and pay without wrecking your place or even better leave. Worst case scenario you waste a 15 minute face to face or phone call.
  • Investor · Granger, IN · Member since 2015 · 195 posts · 129 votes
    10y

    That is just the reaction she uses to push you back away.  Ignore her and file the papers.  I don't know her but I know people just like her.  She will be "losing it" with her next landlord to and the faster you rid her from your life the better.  Good LUck

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Katherine Rossell First of all, there is no tenant "right" to pay rent late.  

    Your tenant started out by trying to pay rent late with a song and dance.  When the song and dance didn't work any longer, she decided to try and bully you.  Don't let that work either.

    I suggest you simultaneously give her notice that her lease is terminated when it ends - and whatever notices you need for eviction for nonpayment of rent.

    You can probably find out your questions regarding timing of the eviction papers by calling the court clerk.

    Just know that your tenant has the rent money every month.  She simply chooses to spend it on other things first.  You are not her priority.  Her priorities are not your problem.

    I could tell you stories about bad tenants I inherited.  One story was that she didn't have the rent because she had her eyes tattooed so she wouldn't have to wear make-up anymore, and didn't I think it looked great?!  Another said she had a vacation planned for a long time, so the vacation of course, was more important than paying rent.  I let them both know I wasn't impressed with their priorities.  One paid the rent, the other got kicked out.

    Their personal problems and priorities are not your problem.  You don't care.  You are a bill they must pay or they are homeless.  Therefore, you are a priority.  And, shucks, you really hope they don't force you to evict them (which you say nicely and apologetically while smiling), but you will have to evict them if they don't pay.  On time.

    Tenants who want or expect breaks, are problem tenants who will always be problem tenants.  If they can't afford your unit, they need to move.

    And know, that I am now a disabled senior in subsidized housing, but my rent always gets paid first.  No matter what.  But I see other seniors in my building with gambling problems (lots of Indian casinos around here), who smoke cigarettes and/or pot, who spend their money at the local bar, going out to eat, buying new clothes, etc.  And there are seniors like me, who only eat at home, can afford a vehicle, and always pay their rent on time.  Same exact income.

    So, do I feel sorry for them when they give me a song and dance about how they need a ride or whatever?  Should I?  Of course not.  They make just as much money as I do.  Not my job to subsidize the lifestyle they want but can't afford.  And it's not your job, either, as landlord to your tenants.  So, don't feel guilty.  Get rid of her.  

  • Investor · Lyndonville, VT · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    Thank you everyone!! I have loved reading your suggestions to this thread. Reading these really does make me feel part of a larger community. It is nice to know that I am not alone! I love bigger pockets. 

    I am going to meet with my lawyer tomorrow to make sure I have everything in order and in accordance with Vermont law. Then I will provide her with the appropriate notice due to the lease expiration and give her the notices required to begin the eviction process. I will also explain to her the process of eviction and the importance of giving the notices for safety measures. Our goal is to have her leave peacefully (fingers crossed). 

  • Corby GoadeBusiness Member
    Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    If the lease expires next month, tell her you are not going to renew and she needs to vacate the property in 30 days (the day the lease expires). Read up on these forums on tenant screening and BE PICKY! Having a vacancy for a month is much less expensive than dealing with a terrible tenant for a year or five. The mental energy you have to spend on a tenant like this is expensive, I've been there. BTW, there are no "tenant's rights" in this regard. If they don't pay, anyone can be evicted regardless of their job, age, race, etc. Get up to speed on your state's landlord tenant regulations and know your lease inside and out and move forward with confidence. I amend my lease here and there with almost every tenant I have, because I keep learning and having new experiences that I'd like to avoid in the future. Good luck!

  • St Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 575 posts · 408 votes
    10y

     Katherine, I think you will find this is for the best. it was a mistake to allow continued late payment. The tenant has rewarded you with threats of legal action when you try even to enforce agreement for late payment! This is not a situation with any gray area, this tenant has to go ASAP. You are right to file for eviction and give notice of lease termination. Even if the tenant was to make some temporary concessions (like adhering to your already late payment dates) she will look for any sign of you slacking off enforcement so as to resume bad behavior. You are better off with this tenant gone.

  • Graham MinkPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Stowe, VT · Member since 2013 · 102 posts · 27 votes
    10y

    Hi Katherine,

    You are in a difficult spot. The State of Vermont is one of, if not, THE WORST state to evict a tenant. If they contact legal aid this process will take at least 4 months, maybe up to 8-12 and will potentially cost you 5-10k. My advice:

    1) offer the tenant a cash payment to vacate within a week or two. The amount should be negotiated by you and them. Could be $500-$1500. Don't give them a dime until they have completely vacated and signed a contract giving up their rights to the apartment. This may seem like a tough pill to swallow, and it is, but it will be less stressful and much cheaper than the eviction process, trust me.

    2) if they refuse to leave after being offered the money contact an EXPERIENCED eviction attorney who charges a FLAT FEE for the eviction. Otherwise you may end up hiring someone who will cost you a fortune and/or make mistakes which will drag things out longer. This is a very important point. Vermont courts are not forgiving to landlords and the service process must be adhered to entirely by the book. I would recommend contacting Angela Zaikowski at the Vermomt Landlord Association, she is one of the best and literally wrote the book on Vt landlord/tenant rules. She charges a flat fee I believe to handle evictions.

    3) in the future screen all holdover tenants as if they were new prior to purchasing the property or have the current owner kick them out. People usually are selling partially because they have issues with tenants they don't want to deal with. 

    4) don't waste a single day. Start the process now and if you made mistakes start over and don't relent until the problem tenants are gone. 

    Good luck

  • Investor · Lyndonville, VT · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    @Graham Mink if our tenants lease is up September 30 should I try to give them a 30 day notice to vacate because of the expiration of the lease or do you just suggest to offer them money first? 

    Also,  I am unclear about the law in VT for evictions. VT law says landlords need to give 14 days written notice to pay rent before they can file for eviction. If I give a five day notice and they don't pay within 24 hours do I give them another notice giving them 14 days or 11? 

    What is your process for giving tenants late notices?  

  • Real Estate Investor · Burlington, VT · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Katherine Rossell  Sorry to hear about this!  How did the meeting with your lawyer go the other day?

    FYI - I just issue a "14 Notice to Pay or Quit" if someone is getting too late on the rent, usually around 10 days.  I just tell them as long as they pay, they have nothing to worry about, and most will payat that point.  I've only had one tenant out of maybe 100 over the years where I then had to file an eviction.

    Note the wording of the lease too for the Notice to Pay or Quit.  I used to have it in my lease "to be served by sheriff" but removed that wording so I could just serve it myself.

    Anyway, curious how the lawyer meeting went.

    Thanks,

    Tom

  • Investor · Lyndonville, VT · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    @Tom S. the meeting with my lawyer went well. We reviewed the options that we have on the table. I tried to explain to this tenant that we issue a 14 day notice to pay rent or vacate to protect our business incase a tenant continues not to pay rent. I tried to explain that if she paid within those 14 days that nothing would happen.  

    Even with my attempts at explaining the process of giving notices, she has sent me in depth text messages about how I am bullying her because she has two kids and no where to live. She continues to say she knows her rights as a tenant because it is not her first rodeo. 

    Essentially I am going to give her a 60 day notice to vacate due to the expiration of her lease. She will have to be out of the apartment December 1. If she is late paying rent after 5 days I will give her another 14 day notice to pay rent or vacate. If she doesn't pay rent within those 14 days (hopefully she will leave) but if she doesn't leave, I will either file for an eviction or offer her $500 to leave plus her security deposit back instead of using it for back rent. I am not sure she will go for the money or not. Either way winter is coming, and it will be harder to rent the apartment in December, so the faster we get her out the better for our business. 

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