How to deal with Tenant wear and tear?
Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 38 votes
How to deal with Tenant wear and tear?
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Can you work out an agreement to do (and charge for) repairs during the lease to avoid relying on the damage deposit at the end? A high rent tenant may be more likely to pay for repairs during their lease if they have a large deposit they expect to get back.
At the same time, don't worry about lawn maintenance while dogs live there. Do it after move out. Otherwise, the tenant may move the dogs indoors to avoid re-damaging the lawn, which would be far worse.
32 Replies
- Software Developer · Vidor, TX · Member since 2015 · 922 posts · 639 votes9y
I would take pictures of the molding and let her know that's not normal and will be taken out of the deposit. Also, take pictures of the back yard and I would pay to have new sod put in and use the pet rent/fee to cover it and the remaining deposit (after the molding is repaired) to help cushion the cost of sod and labor.
Did you charge a fee and rent for the first pet? And was it documented?
You need to have something in your lease going forward that has an additional daily fee for undocumented pets. I would just charge 40/50 per day or something like that (I charge 25/day but my rent is much lower than yours). Or you can have it in the lease as an offense that can result in eviction.
Good luck, be firm about the damages (the molding and yard are not normal wear and tear).
**I though it was the move-out walk through, sorry. Yeah I would try to get the molding and stuff fixed now and worry about the yard on move out.
- Can you work out an agreement to do (and charge for) repairs during the lease to avoid relying on the damage deposit at the end? A high rent tenant may be more likely to pay for repairs during their lease if they have a large deposit they expect to get back. At the same time, don't worry about lawn maintenance while dogs live there. Do it after move out. Otherwise, the tenant may move the dogs indoors to avoid re-damaging the lawn, which would be far worse.
- Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 38 votes9y
Wow thanks for the quick responses!
I like the idea of dealing with the lawn on move out and maybe letting her know now that it's not normal wear and tear?
I think I can get her to pay for the molding and a few other small items.
What's your take on raising rent or security deposit due to the extra pet to re-up this 1 year lease?
- Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 38 votes9y
how bout any tips on "training my tenant" to take better care of the home?
A fellow HB memeber! Hopefully, I can provide some help suggestions. The previous above ones are pretty good.
Do you currently have anything written regarding pets? If not, then you should. At least something along the lines with a limited size, AND with your approval first.
I would probable raise the rent a bit and the security deposit as well. Here are the what if's to consider:
They move out (additional detail to follow)
They decide to stay, and because they are paying more they might think they have more freedom to do what they want. Some people go the opposite of the thinking, "hey, maybe if I'm a great tenant then I can probably negotiate and keep a better rate."
The only thing you can look forward to is you raise the rent to protect yourself and hope that they don't become worse.
If they do decide to move out, then take into consideration all of the things you have experienced and apply that. Also, renting to families is usually a bit better. There's more need for stability as far their habits, especially at that price they are paying. In a family, if the mom is a neat freak, EVERYONE falls in line. With multiple individuals, well I'm sure you lived with roommates at one time or another.
Good luck with everything!
- Software Developer · Vidor, TX · Member since 2015 · 922 posts · 639 votes9y
@Shayne Fee I would just let the yard go for now like @Jim Y. said. You don't want to give them an incentive to keep the dogs inside more.
As long as you have a pic of the yard before move in, it won't matter.
At lease signing would be the best time to require a pet fee/new pet rent and do any rent increases. Otherwise, a lot of landlords have a higher rate for month to month anyway. You may just want to go that route in case the conditions worsen and then you can get them out and not be bound by a term.
If you can get some kind of pet fee and increased rent upon lease renewal, I say why not.
I would put a pet addendum in the renewal however with name, breed, lbs and sex so the two dogs are documented. Have a clause that states no other animals are permitted without your approval and define penalties in regards to daily fees or grounds for eviction clearly as well.
- Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 38 votes9y
thanks for the tips!
I will let the yard go. I agree that's the best course of action from where we are today. Definitely going to leave it month to month now also after thinking about it. Great suggestion.
I don't want to be too harsh because they have been good tenants otherwise and are paying rent near the top of the market. Don't want to lose them, just nudge them in the right direction...thanks again guys!
- 9yKim Meredith HamptonBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Do you have a move in inspection ormphotos documenting the house, in addition Tina picture of the pet with pet deposit/Pet fee. I usually do half/half on the fee/dep on the pet, gives them an incentive to keep everything copacetic.
I agree on the back yard, wait until they vacate and resod and charge at that time.
There is another thing you could do, implement pet rent
- Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 38 votes9y
hey Kim! Can you give me an example of what you mean by half/half on the fee/dep on the pet?
Wow, didn't realize that people were overlooking Insurance as a solution.
Requiring Renter's Insurance with a substantial liability coverage amount is needed.
If you agree to allowing the pet's then this is a great opening to have them sign additional
addendums and requesting a modification to the current lease for pet deposit or pet fee.The tenants changed the original agreement by adding pets.
Hopefully you have the move in check list and/or pictures showing condition of property prior to them taking possession. You will still need to depreciate some costs of the repair unless the condition was new when they moved in.As for the lawn I just realized my own lease does Not go into detail on Outdoor Maintenance, and
what is required of the tenant. (Mow grass, rake leaves, remove tree debris, water grass, clean gutters, or trim trees.) This will go on my addendum detailing the items listed above.I think us landlord's overlook outdoor maintenance but this is a part of the tenants responsibility in Single Family Home of which they have access and use of these areas. When the higher then expected bill arrives to get your lawn returned to the previous states it becomes a concern.
- Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 38 votes9y
Thanks for the info/tips @Jeff B.! I like your take on how they changed the agreement when they added pets. So true!
I think they do have renters insurance already but I don't know the details...wouldn't that just protect their own stuff??? I was always under the impression renters insurance covers the renters stuff and my landlord policy protects the house/me? No?
Hey @Kim Meredith Hampton can you give me a real example of what you mean by half/half on the fee/dep?
For myself I would consider the lawn as normal ware and tear of allowing dogs. Either repair when they leave and do not allow dogs in the future or leave the lawn as it is renting to another dog owner.
As for the house what you are referring to is not ware and tear it is tenant damage. You should be inspecting the property at least every quarter to check for water leaks, smoke alarm operation, furnace filters etc. and any damage caused by the tenant. You service all maintenance items on the property and repair all damage. The damage repairs are billed to the tenant at that time not deducted from their deposit. This will insure that at time of move out there will be minimal repairs to be done and deducted from their deposit.
At the walk through you decide what is normal and what is not based on the degree of ware and the time period involved. A year between inspections is far to long to determine the difference for most items aside from clear damage like holes in walls, broken molding etc. The best approach a landlord can have is to do the inspection, point out obvious damage and bill them for the repairs. It is simply part of the business.
Damage and ware and tear are entirely different items but must be inspected on a shorter time frame to be able to adequately determine to be excessive ware and tear.
- Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 38 votes9y
@Thomas S. thanks for the advice! Definitely love the distinction between tenant damage and wear and tear! I have been checking it out every couple of months...I humbly disagree that the state of the backyard is normal with dogs. Also, I only allowed 1 and they added a 2nd dog without permission. They may have also turned off the sprinklers that were on an auto timer. Just don't think it's normal for a green lawn in good shape to turn into a dirt pit!
"I think they do have renters insurance already but I don't know the details"
This is not acceptable. Landlords should have a copy of the tenant's renters insurance
policy. My experience is the Insurance Policies are different by company and state.
Are you now named as "additional interest" on the policy?
This allows you to receive a copy of the policy and any notices. You would know if they cancelled the policy or made changes.What type of dogs do the tenants have and does their Renters Insurance have an aggressive breed exclusion for the dog in question?
I agree with having the "interior" repairs completed while the tenants are present. This reinforces their obligations for payment and care along with reduces the Landlord's loss of use time frame after move out.
- Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 38 votes9y
@Jeff B. you're right and I will get a copy of any policy they have. Definitely going to make them repair anything that's damaged inside and leave the backyard for now.
But what specifically is your point with the renters insurance? What kind of policy or terms do you think I should require them to get? I have never even considered requiring tenants to carry renters insurance because I have a landlord and umbrella policy myself. I assumed the renters policy would be for their property and at their discretion.
- Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 429 posts · 143 votes9yShayne Fee quarterly inspections might help to mitigate some of the larger issues, like the molding coming off the walls. As far as dealing with issues at the end of the lease, the security deposit should cover most of the issues that come up.
This should be addressed with your insurance professional.
Dogs have the potential to cause more accidents and physically assault someone, Tenant, Guest or service personnel.
Tenant/Renters Insurance Policy is noted that 2 Dogs occupy the property . If the Renters overloaded an outlet while displaying holiday lights and this a causes a fire it should be covered under their policy. Like the bank you are requiring assurances against unforeseen losses at the home.
If you receive push back educate them that the bank requires a Home Owners policy on a mortgaged property. There are numerous ways the property can be accidentally damaged.
(Parking car in garage the car damages the wall/piping/electrical., Playing in yard and something breaks a window., There is a Burglary while there away on vacation. A faucet is left on, overflows, and damages some items.) A renters insurance policy is one of the better values in insurance. It is beneficial because it protects the Renter from unforeseen financial losses which could add up to being substantial.This is protects both if it becomes a legal battle on who caused the loss.
Hi Shayne -- I have a "pet application". It is completed for each pet. The application includes vet information, other people I can contact regarding the pet, and a picture of the pet. It also has the license number of the pet. This application immediately tells me if this is a responsible pet owner. Since there is a "new" pet, I think you need to have a discussion about pets and explain from a landlord's perspective why pets can't just appear. Perhaps you have them complete the application for both pets but explain that two is the limit and three means that they have decided to move.
I would also ask the tenant what happened with the shoe moulding. I use inspections (and most meetings) as a training opportunity regarding what I expect and why. In this case, your tenants need to know that holes in the wall, chewed carpeting or broken moulding is not normal and things like that could result in their losing their security deposit. I would then follow up with asking if they have someone who is licensed and able to make the necessary repairs or if they would like you to recommend someone.
Best, Teresa
- Rental Property Investor · Phoenix AZ / Kendallville, IN · Member since 2016 · 293 posts · 149 votes9y
Also, once you get done with a rehab (new carpeting, paint, etc.) in a unit, do a walk through the unit with a video camera (phone) and date it. This might come in handy if ever needed in court.
- Insurance Agent · Maitland, FL · Member since 2015 · 397 posts · 244 votes9yJeff B. But unless it is smoke, fire or explosion, tenant damage to the rented residence will not be covered. But damage to their belongings may be. I read many investors that think renters insurance is some magic bullet around due diligence and security deposits, it's not because of its limited scope, but it does have a few benefits. I'm not saying your saying it's a magic bullet, but it certainly won't cover damage they (or anyone else) do to the rented premise, except smoke, fire, explosion.
If repairs are needed hire your own contractor, never allow a tenant to do any repairs or to hire their own contractors. Tenants are not responsible enough to insure work is done properly or to your standards.
You have the work do and they pay.
- Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2012 · 544 posts · 311 votes9y
@Shayne Fee, A active medium size dog kept in the same enclosed area indeed turn grass to dirt. That happened to the back yard areas of my rental that the tenants kept their boxer/bulldog mix in, most, and it was a 3 acre property so the dog should have had plenty of room to run. Instead the tenants free ranged chickens, and fenced the dog in small area of the yard that received the least sunlight. (I'm in the Pacific NW) The grass got stressed and couldn't recover. I found no need to bring in new sod though. After the tenants left, I spread some new seed over the bare ground, covered it with a layer of straw to hold moisture and the lawn quickly grew back.
As to training your tenant, communicating your concern is the place to start. Thank them for choosing your property, let them know you are glad to have them and want to keep them, then add that restoring the lawn and interior molding will be real costs for you that are not normal wear and tear, and must be paid by the tenant.
Originally posted by @Derek Lacy:
Jeff B.
But unless it is smoke, fire or explosion, tenant damage to the rented residence will not be covered. But damage to their belongings may be.
The Renters Insurance Policy's I reviewed included coverage for "Vandalism"(
Vandalism is an offense that occurs when a person destroys or defaces someone else's property without permission.) Additionally you could file the claim under the Renters Insurance "Personal Liability"The items I listed in () brackets of my 3rd reply would be consider accidental and would happen unexpectedly and unintentionally.
- Jeff B. Sorry but Derek Lacy is correct. Renters insurance is just that. It protects the renter it does not do anything to protect the landlords interests. It covers their belongings in case of fire or something. It is not coverage for damage to property caused by their dog. Especially if the landlord knew there was a dog present. It may protect the renter from liability in the event he caused a fire or some other some big loss to the property but they are gonna make you prove it was the tenants fault. Good luck with that, and good luck getting it to pay for broken molding or torn up grass. Forcing your tenants to buy it is only making your tenant pool smaller. It's their stuff renter insurance pays for not yours. It won't keep you from being sued if their dog bites somebody or sues you for any other reason. It mite protect them but it won't help you. Your the one receiving compensation in exchange for allowing the tenant to live there. That means you gotta supply your own liability. Not the renter. RR
@Ralph R. The way I read you it sounds like you consider renter's insurance to be useless. Should that be your opinion indeed then I disagree. While you are correct about what it does not cover you are not mentioning the benefits it can give to tenants. And indirectly to the landlord! For example, one of my dwellings became uninhabitable due to water damage leading to mold with the required remediation attached to that. Fun. Tenants/family had to move out for some 4 weeks. Guess who covered the hotel bill? Their insurance. Otherwise it would have easily been me. In addition to the lost rent (which, however, my insurance covered). That's just an example. There are many other things covered.
I require renter's insurance with me being named as additional insured. It does not cost that much, and at least for my class of tenants/locations it will not be a deal breaker. If so, well, then that prospective tenant was not the right one for that place and shall find another landlord.
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