Tenant fined by HOA for repeat parking violations

Tenant fined by HOA for repeat parking violations

Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Summary: Tenant violates HOA rules repeatedly and get's fined. Now denies it. I've asked for payment but they want evidence of the violation (that they previously always admitted to). Stopped talking to them at that point and figure making about 60K off the house between appreciation and cash flow I don't want to push the tenant too much while living there and will just take out of their deposit when they move out. Not worth the thousands I'd lose having a vacancy if they left over the $200, though they have a dog and a bankruptcy thus a hard time finding a place to live, so unlikely.

Details:

Mind you, I lived in this house for 2 years myself and only ever got one notice a year to weed my flower beds, just like everyone else did.

For the past 8 months, I've received an HOA parking or other violation every other month on these people. They've had multiple parking violations for two vehicles, never denied it, accepted it actually until they got a fine for $200 from the HOA (I received the fine). Now they are asking if they got the license plate (they did - it's in the notice I sent the tenant...twice...first of which about the fine was ignored). Now that I've followed up they are asking for proof including pictures. I stopped responding to the texts at that point. I've driven by the place before and seen some of the violations the HOA writes about (other than parking) and didn't say anything until the HOA did. At this point, I believe the HOA and have already paid the fine. I don't want to push the issue too much, opting instead to just take it out of the deposit when they move out if they don't pay. Why?

Because the tenant seems to take care of the house, I did inspection a few months ago and house was just like we left it not counting all their crap. House is going up 50K a year in value and I make about 10K off the rents and principle pay down. Vacancy and turnover cost money of course and I already have one other vacancy. Don't want to have what seems to be an otherwise good tenant move over a $200 fine, win the battle but lose the war so to speak, so I won't press the issue and will instead just take it out of their deposit when they move out. They are on a MTM lease and have a recent bankruptcy (real estate developer who lost it all in the crash) and dogs so it's hard for them to find a place to live. They've been cooperative in the past with HOA notices. I do also get occasional bills from the utility that they are two months behind, etc. Not a stellar tenant but even in this ritzy high income neighborhood where 95% of people are homeowners, people like this is what you end up with: they can't buy due to their credit so they rent.

They've paid rent late once to date and I enforced the $25 late fee. Again, it's been 8 months. Think I should just take it out of their deposit or are there bigger issues at play here with this tenant? Seems like the good tenants are extremely rare, there is a reason most of these people rent...chaos is their life. So what do you think, keep the tenant for now or? 

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Residential Real Estate Broker · Greenville, NC · Member since 2015 · 164 posts · 90 votes
9y

Give them an inch and they will take a mile.  Watch

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  • Kim Meredith HamptonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Jack B. Normally the HOA does take photos of the incidents so that they have record. You also should take photos when you have noticed any violations, with a date and time stamp. Seems like this couple is just taking advantage. I would definetly take form their security deposit when they vacate. I would also look to give them notice around April, May when the rental market is at its best, find a new tenant and move forward. They are causing more trouble than they are worth with a rental in a good neighborhood. Not your problem that they have a bankruptcy and pets!

    If you haven't already, place a copy of the rules and regulations with the HOA as a part of the lease and they sign off that they have read, understand and agree to abide by ALL the rules.

    Best of luck

  • St Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 575 posts · 408 votes
    9y

    @Jack B. I would go around and see them, and basically ask them who they think should be paying their parking fines, them or you. If their answer is you, you have paid the fines, now sue them in small claims for the amount. Then they will have a recent court judgment against them. Plus you can usually sue for your costs. I would tell them that you are going to do this. Explain why, no one else pays your parking tickets, you should not have to pay theirs. My prediction is that if they win this and force you to pay with impunity this will not be the last time you have to face bad behavior at that unit.

    You like them because they seem to take care of the unit, but then again there have been other HOA notices and you receive utility bills that they are delinquent on. I am not sure that this tenancy is heading in the right direction. Are you sure you cannot find someone better?

  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Jack B.    Be a little careful.  Is it a city street they are parking on?  In Texas, many HOAs send out notices and "fines" for parking on city streets in their neighborhoods.

    Multiple lawyers have told me that is completely illegal and unenforceable.

    I even know people that have started parking in front of board members houses after cussing them out for putting a sticker on their car. Police have even been called. I think there is still a video online of a police officer watching an HOA board president remove a sticky notice instead of being arrested for vandalizing a car.

    Did you have your tenant sign a copy of the complete set of HOA rules you gave them when they signed their lease? If not, forget trying to take any money out of the deposit.

  • Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Jack B.

    Are these tenants you inherited or did you screen them yourself and put them in there?

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Greenville, NC · Member since 2015 · 164 posts · 90 votes
    9y

    Give them an inch and they will take a mile.  Watch

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I suspect the HOA has photos, as do I of most of their violations except parking, with date/time/gps stamps (started using this summer). They did get a copy of the HOA rules several times and an email telling them they would be responsible for the fees. I was hoping to keep them for a few years but they've already paid rent late once and they constantly draw the ire of the HOA. Frankly, I've driven by and documented and they don't seem to quite get it. I guess I will look for a new tenant in April, or I will sell and 1031 into a non HOA property like my others. Always a risk with any new tenant. Almost all of these people have something wrong with them.

    I have a colleague who told me that in his HOA they can't enforce parking on the streets either because they are public property. But, I don't want to deal with the hassle of idiots who can't follow basic rules and draw attention from the HOA. It's parking today, it was a weight bench in the side yard before that. Hint, none of the 300 other houses have weight benches in the side yard dude, this isn't a trailer park...

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Stephen E.:

    @Jack B. I would go around and see them, and basically ask them who they think should be paying their parking fines, them or you. If their answer is you, you have paid the fines, now sue them in small claims for the amount. Then they will have a recent court judgment against them. Plus you can usually sue for your costs. I would tell them that you are going to do this. Explain why, no one else pays your parking tickets, you should not have to pay theirs. My prediction is that if they win this and force you to pay with impunity this will not be the last time you have to face bad behavior at that unit.

    You like them because they seem to take care of the unit, but then again there have been other HOA notices and you receive utility bills that they are delinquent on. I am not sure that this tenancy is heading in the right direction. Are you sure you cannot find someone better?

     Sue them in small claims court over $200 dollars? Have you ever been to court? It costs more than this just to file and have a process server serve them. 

    But, I will point to their shoddy credit, utility bills, late rent and HOA violations as a talking point if there is more push back.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    It is illegal to use the deposit for anything other than damage to the unit, so be carful or these tenants will burn you. You will likely have to swallow all HOA fines until you can not afford to pay them any longer.

    It seems you are only operating as a hobby landlord which means the rental income is probably not of very mush importance as long as you are getting something. The HOA fines will likely start to climb as they see no action on your part to curb your tenant and at some point will likely force you to evict them.

    As soon as the HOA notifies you they want them evicted start making plans to sell the condo since it appears you are ill equipped to continue as a landlord.

  • St Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 575 posts · 408 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jack B.:
    Originally posted by @Stephen E.:

     Sue them in small claims court over $200 dollars? Have you ever been to court? It costs more than this just to file and have a process server serve them. 

    But, I will point to their shoddy credit, utility bills, late rent and HOA violations as a talking point if there is more push back.

    It is a small sum, but I think it is just the start and that these tenants are intent on stiffing you for this and other bills. There is a lot of face involved in knowing that you have paid the bills and then progressively asking for greater and greater evidence of offences that they know they have committed. You are becoming their supplicant in playing to this. Simply receiving a statement of claim may cause them to wise up a little. But presently you seem to be rationalising away paying their parking fines. These are not good tenants. They may have been good tenants once, but those days are over. Now they are creating trouble and costing you money. The only question remaining is how long you are going to let them. If you do decide to go after them rather than eat these costs as you are now contemplating, you can get your filing fee and other costs back from them if you prevail. In my jurisdiction I would be stuck with these characters, but in yours since you have them on a M2M lease you can just not renew. One thing I have learned over time is that PITA tenants rarely get any better. Once they are on a downward trajectory they just keep going. You can get better tenants than this if you go out and look for them.

  • Investor · Wellington, KS · Member since 2016 · 256 posts · 188 votes
    9y

    Why not send them a bill, perhaps by certified mail, return receipt requested. Then when they don't pay it, apply the next payment they make to the parking fine first and then to rent leaving the rent short by $200. Send them a bill for past due rent. When they don't pay, post the appropriate notice to pay or quit. 3 days in my state. They are unlikely to move for $200 and if they do, you are well rid of them. Otherwise, you will continue to pay more HOA fees.

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Stephen E.:
    Originally posted by @Jack B.:
    Originally posted by @Stephen E.:

     Sue them in small claims court over $200 dollars? Have you ever been to court? It costs more than this just to file and have a process server serve them. 

    But, I will point to their shoddy credit, utility bills, late rent and HOA violations as a talking point if there is more push back.

    It is a small sum, but I think it is just the start and that these tenants are intent on stiffing you for this and other bills. There is a lot of face involved in knowing that you have paid the bills and then progressively asking for greater and greater evidence of offences that they know they have committed. You are becoming their supplicant in playing to this. Simply receiving a statement of claim may cause them to wise up a little. But presently you seem to be rationalising away paying their parking fines. These are not good tenants. They may have been good tenants once, but those days are over. Now they are creating trouble and costing you money. The only question remaining is how long you are going to let them. If you do decide to go after them rather than eat these costs as you are now contemplating, you can get your filing fee and other costs back from them if you prevail. In my jurisdiction I would be stuck with these characters, but in yours since you have them on a M2M lease you can just not renew. One thing I have learned over time is that PITA tenants rarely get any better. Once they are on a downward trajectory they just keep going. You can get better tenants than this if you go out and look for them.

     Dude, calm down. As I've repeatedly said in my OP and other posts, I plan on taking it out of their deposit, not eating the cost. And again, spending thousands on vacancy and turnover costs over $200 that I can take out of their 3K deposit on a house I make 60K a year off of is just plain bad math. 

    I agree with you that they suck as tenants. As I said, I stopped responding to their texts when they asked if they had pics. For one, you have the same notice I have, I sent you what they sent me after all. Second, you have a bankruptcy, a brand new Lexus SUV, and all kinds of past due utility bills and I've personally witnessed and photographed many of the violations they sent you. No debate, pay the fine or I will give you notice to move out since you are on a MTM lease and I will take it out of your deposit. Good luck with a bad landlord reference, a bankruptcy, etc. finding a new place to live...

    Heck, since I don't want to press the issue to much until rental season (spring/summer) I may just go along for now without saying I'm forgiving the fine. Then I will just give them notice in April and take it out of their deposit, send them on their merry way into the trailer park they belong in.

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    It is illegal to use the deposit for anything other than damage to the unit, so be carful or these tenants will burn you. You will likely have to swallow all HOA fines until you can not afford to pay them any longer.

    It seems you are only operating as a hobby landlord which means the rental income is probably not of very mush importance as long as you are getting something. The HOA fines will likely start to climb as they see no action on your part to curb your tenant and at some point will likely force you to evict them.

    As soon as the HOA notifies you they want them evicted start making plans to sell the condo since it appears you are ill equipped to continue as a landlord.

     That may be the case for Ontario, not the case here...And as I said in my OP it's a house, not a condo...Thanks for your "input".

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Victor N.:

    Why not send them a bill, perhaps by certified mail, return receipt requested. Then when they don't pay it, apply the next payment they make to the parking fine first and then to rent leaving the rent short by $200. Send them a bill for past due rent. When they don't pay, post the appropriate notice to pay or quit. 3 days in my state. They are unlikely to move for $200 and if they do, you are well rid of them. Otherwise, you will continue to pay more HOA fees.

    While I like the bill and rent application idea, I keep all my tenants on MTM leases for this reason, no need to post a 3 day pay or quit. I'm going to have a heart to heart with him if he does not pay the fine with the rent next month like I asked, based on his credit history, utility payment history, already one late payment in a few months, and constant HOA notices that he now tries to claim are not his fault. Just bluntly I will tell him that he is clearly the problem and if he doesn't pay or cooperate, I will send him a 20 day notice to vacate. He has become one of my most problematic tenants. I don't know what it is with tenants, almost all of them seem like abject losers. It's like they can't figure anything out or pay anything on time. Yet somehow I pay the bills for multiple houses on time every month. Idiots...My patience is wearing thin with this family especially.

  • Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    hello, I have a similar situation. My tenant just got their car towed after a second violation. I was just notified after the fact. Now they want to deduct the charges from the rent since I didn't disclose the HOA rules at the time of signing the contract. They have been living there for 2 years already with no incidents. The fact is that it was their second incident. The first time they parked in a visitor parking lot for a week, they HOA place the sticker in their car advising of the violation, they actually moved the car to their parking space. After that they HOA placed another ticket for "expired tags". This time they towed the vehicle after 5 days of placing the sticker, so they have time to let me know of the incident before they took their car. They claimed that I failed to provide the HOA rules and regulations therefore I should pay for it. I disagree.. I would like to actually terminate the lease but it won't expire until jan 2018. I am in North Carolina.. anyone has an advise? can I terminate the lease?

  • Investor · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2015 · 409 posts · 214 votes
    9y

    jack

    you mean you got fined

    my brother in law just went through this for a parking violation

    there were pictures ect ect...

    there were notices and notices

    the tenant did nothing and the owner was off site

    all he did was send the tenant the bill and the tenant paid

    evidently you can evict someone in Florida with a 24 hour notice so that was the option presented to the tenant

    enjoy

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    @Nhora V.

    On what grounds do you feel you have the right to terminate the lease. As their landlord they are not yet in violation of their lease..or have they ?

    Deny responsibility for their costs, make sure they have a copy of the HOA regulations and wait till they do not pay their full rent then follow your state regulations for serving notice.

    Also....as a business you must read and fully understand all your state landlord tenant regulations. They are on line if you do not already have a copy. You should know the regulations by heart and keep a copy with you at all times.

  • Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    thank you Greg S. and Stanley Parsley for the great advise

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