First time here on BP. A friend recommended I ask here. My resident just lost a college aged child to a murder in the yard of one of the rental. Any advice from those who have gone through such a situation or know some who has as a landlord would be greatly appreciated. Or maybe you know someone who was a resident and had this happen and could give advice as well. Any advice on how, as a professional landlord, I can help out the resident? The residents and I have a great professional rapport. This a C neighborhood, a single family home, lease ends in May and resident has been there a few years if you are wondering. I know if I were in the this resident's shoes I wouldn't want to live in the home any more due to the horrific memory. Knowing that's how I would feel, should I flat out ask If they want to move or give some time and see what the they want to do? Should I just ask the resident, how do you feel about living in this home now? And let the resident kind of answer the question without me asking whether they want to get out of there. I really don't know. I know there is a lot of questions above but feel free to share your thoughts because I really want to do the right thing for them in this dark time.

Murder at rental. What to do?

Investor · Columbus, GA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

After the police have cleared the scene and gathered their evidence, clean the place up and put it up for rent. People still need a place to live and you are running a business. In a few weeks, it will be business as usual. No need to get emotional about it.

2 Reply

Deanna McCormick

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Horrible thing to happen and it does, I worked at complex , 23 yr old kid shot in the hallway over $400 bucks worth of pot..

We gave notice for them to vacate and refunded the deposit, We just plain wanted them out.

The element of Crime is and was there, we had a Crime Free / Drug Free addendum you'll never know the full reason of WHY this person was killed. Get the other roommates tenants out as quickly and reasonably quietly as possible. We asked for help from police departments and they would give us a notice to comply to have the tenant removed from the property.

Might take a month or so for things to settle down, as other tenants will for sure ask to leave if you don't do something and still might eve if you do. We held firm with those tenants and said proper notice and your lease is up XXXX so we did not let anyone else out of their leases.

0 Reply

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

9y

Send your condolences and do nothing allowing the tenant to decide for them selves what they now want to do. Asking will only add pressure to their present situation. The tenant is an adult and can decide and let you know.

7 Reply

Deanna McCormick

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Do NOT leave this up to the tenant to decide, YOU kindly push the envelope and give them a mutual lease termination. NO IFS or BUTS..

I managed a 326 unit complex,,18 buildings, Section 8, literally a small city within a city, a rough place,, we had 1 murder, 4 shootings, a stabbing, 3 drive by shoot ups..in one year, we couldn't get rid of the rif raff quickly enough, YOU evict , non-renew anyone that was involved or targeted in this type of situation. As a new management company we took over and within a year basically had it turned around but it took guts and help from the police department.

You can feel sorry but the rest of your business is just that you have to take action and get the element of compliance of well I feel sorry for what happened to your kid.. it's the next apartment door down that's going to get shot up when someone comes back to retaliate.

3 Reply

Alf Penland

Tucson, AZ · Member since 2017 · 24 posts · 48 votes

9y

Exactly what @Thomas S. said. Give them time to figure things out. If they have been there a few years, they are probably good tenants and I'm guessing you would rather have them stay than turnover the house. You may find that they can't bring themselves to move away, or they may decide they can no longer live there. In any event, I wouldn't push them one way or the other.

1 Reply

Joseph M.

Investor · Norfolk, VA · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 10 votes

9y

I agree with @Thomas S., do not try to put yourself in that persons shoes. Let them know that you are there to support them in any way and give them space. If they want to move, they will reach out to you and ask probably at the end of the month. It would be your decision to let them out of the lease early, knowing that you will end up with a vacancy period.

2 Reply

Ian Kurela

Specialist · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 239 posts · 117 votes

9y

It sounds like the neighborhood and the incident was a one-time experience. I think a lot of posts view this as the first act of a long future of crime, but it doesn't sound that way from your perspective.

They understand they are bound to the lease and I would suggest simply acting more of a friend than a landlord. Leave the lease out of this because I am sure they understand they are bound to it. My condolences to you and the family

0 Reply

Deanna McCormick

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

Honestly have you been there as a property manager,, if you haven't you don't have the experience to reply to this . Professionally speaking this isn't a wait and see matter, you deal with it as swiftly as possible.

@Alf Penland,

1 Reply

Walt Dockery

Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2017 · 171 posts · 165 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Deanna McCormick:

Horrible thing to happen and it does, I worked at complex , 23 yr old kid shot in the hallway over $400 bucks worth of pot..

We gave notice for them to vacate and refunded the deposit, We just plain wanted them out.

The element of Crime is and was there, we had a Crime Free / Drug Free addendum you'll never know the full reason of WHY this person was killed. Get the other roommates tenants out as quickly and reasonably quietly as possible. We asked for help from police departments and they would give us a notice to comply to have the tenant removed from the property.

Might take a month or so for things to settle down, as other tenants will for sure ask to leave if you don't do something and still might eve if you do. We held firm with those tenants and said proper notice and your lease is up XXXX so we did not let anyone else out of their leases.

Not all murder victims are "riff-raff". OP also said it's a single family home, so not sure if this concern about "other tenants" is applicable here.

Unless there is some evidence the tenant is involved in crime, I think @Thomas S is spot on let them decide what they want to do.

2 Reply

Alf Penland

Tucson, AZ · Member since 2017 · 24 posts · 48 votes

9y

@Deanna McCormick You are making assumptions that may not apply here. OP says he has a great professional rapport with the tenant and there are no circumstances provided around what happened. If it was a crime thing that he needed to get on top of, I'm assuming he wouldn't be asking on a message board.

Your approach might be correct if there was direct crime due to the family and a history of problems, but it doesn't sound like this is the issue in this case.

In any event, the OP can see everyone's opinion and decide what his best course of action is. That's the beauty of it......

0 Reply

Deanna McCormick

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

In my experience Zero Tolerance was the correct action to take, no if's and's or but's.

I wasn't the owner, but followed the owners legal direction on how he wanted this type of incident to be dealt with and managed.

So ya the guy that got shot down in our hallway was a nice guy, his girlfriend a sweetie they had just come in and renewed their lease 3 days earlier, together, holding their 6mo old baby. Hard to deal with you bet, crime scene clean up, damages to building, damages to reputation of community. Our Zero Tolerance Policy was just that no exceptions.

0 Reply

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes

9y

My understanding of this situation is that the son of a tenant living in the unit with the parent was killed. If this is the case then the loss may have no reflection on the parent that may or may not choose to remain as a tenant.

If this scenario is not the case then further assessment may be required to determine the appropriate action to be taken.

Being a C class neighbourhood murders are common and may not in any way be related to the behaviour of the tenant themselves. The landlord should know this information.

1 Reply

Walt Dockery

Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2017 · 171 posts · 165 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Deanna McCormick:

In my experience Zero Tolerance was the correct action to take, no if's and's or but's.

I wasn't the owner, but followed the owners legal direction on how he wanted this type of incident to be dealt with and managed.

So ya the guy that got shot down in our hallway was a nice guy, his girlfriend a sweetie they had just come in and renewed their lease 3 days earlier, together, holding their 6mo old baby. Hard to deal with you bet, crime scene clean up, damages to building, damages to reputation of community. Our Zero Tolerance Policy was just that no exceptions.

Zero tolerance applies to victims of crime and their families?

There may very well be more to the story, based on what has been shared it seems you are making a lot of assumptions.

1 Reply

Colleen F.Pro Member

Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9y

It really depends on the situation but it is something you don't just wait and see. Aside from the criminal aspect which may or may not apply some families do not want to live at a house where thier child has died. Evaluate the situation ,could be a random or targeted killing. If there an expectation of repeat violence you need to work on a move out plan. If not I would touch base with the family once the arrangements are done and a few weeks have passed to see if thier situation has changed. Was this child contributing to the rent? is it too hard for them to keep living there?

0 Reply

Deanna McCormick

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

murder

[ mur-der]

NOUN 1.

Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder) and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)

It would still be non-renewal, mutual termination and immediate.

sorry I would never change a position on this.

If this would have been a simple death, the poster would not have listed it as MURDER it was an intentional act. Someone had a weapon, used it, and who knows if the next time they stop round who will be the target of their stupidity. Why risk others.

This isn't a tenant with a Pit Bull that's still living there, it's a tenant that has had family members that KILLERS followed or tracked down to the property to do harm to, who's next.

0 Reply

Walt Dockery

Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2017 · 171 posts · 165 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Deanna McCormick:

murder

[ mur-der]

NOUN

1.

Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder) and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)

It would still be non-renewal, mutual termination and immediate.

sorry I would never change a position on this.

If this would have been a simple death, the poster would not have listed it as MURDER it was an intentional act. Someone had a weapon, used it, and who knows if the next time they stop round who will be the target of their stupidity. Why risk others.

This isn't a tenant with a Pit Bull that's still living there, it's a tenant that has had family members that KILLERS followed or tracked down to the property to do harm to, who's next.

Yeah I think everyone here understands what the word means.

1 Reply

Patti RobertsonBusiness Member

Property Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

@Deanna McCormick - I am an experienced landlord and property manager with 100+ SEC 8 leases currently and I have experienced murders in my tenant's front yard two times - one time in a house I own, and one time in a house I manage. I don't see how having a crime committed in one's yard makes a tenant guilty of anything that would require zero tolerance. Tolerance of what? The poster didn't say if the murdered victim was a target or a victim of a drive by shooting. (I had one of each in our two situations.) Even if he were a gang member, he clearly isn't in the home any more so how is his mother a threat to the community or the owner?

I say leave the option up to her, but if she decides to move, tell her you will advertise it and once you secure a new tenant you are happy to sign a mutual termination of her lease.

757-472-2547

3 Reply

Deanna McCormick

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

@Patti Robertson

This is a section of the Crime Free / Drug Free Addendum all tenants are required to sign in my county in Minnesota. It is clear and reason that the tenants would have been given a notice to vacate if they were at my complex. Mutual lease termination would have been used, but if they objected to that we would have moved to the next step, eviction for cause.

Resident, any members of the resident’s household, or a guest or other person under the resident’s control shall not engage in acts of violence, or threats of violence, including but not limited to the unlawful discharge of firearms, prostitution, criminal street gang activity, intimidation, or any other breach of the housing agreement that the other wise jeopardizes the health safety or welfare of the landlord, his agents, or tenants.

VIOLATION OF THE ABOVE PROVISIONS SHALL BE A MATERIAL VIOLATION OF THE HOUSING AGREEMENT AND GOOD CAUSE FOR TEMINATION OF TENANCY. A single violation of any of the provisions of this addendum shall be deemed a serious violation and material non-compliance with the housing agreement.

It is understood and agreed that a single violation shall be good cause for termination of the housing agreement. Unless otherwise provided by law, proof of violations shall not require criminal conviction, but shall be by the preponderance of the evidence.

In case of conflict between the provisions of this addendum and any other provisions of the housing agreement, the provisions of the addendum shall govern.

This Housing Agreement Addendum is incorporated into the Housing Agreement executed, or renewed this day between the Owner, or Agent, and Resident.

0 Reply

JD MartinBusiness Member

Moderator

Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes

9y

Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

Send your condolences and do nothing allowing the tenant to decide for them selves what they now want to do. Asking will only add pressure to their present situation. The tenant is an adult and can decide and let you know.

Spot on in my opinion. If the tenant wants to move, I think it would be compassionate of the LL to let them out of the lease. I personally can't see how kicking them out of the unit for what may be nothing more than being related to someone is helpful for anyone, especially since the LL apparently has a good relationship and a good paying tenant.

In any case, I would do exactly as noted here. I would offer my condolences, maybe send a sympathy card, and then I would wait to see if the tenant told me they were moving or didn't pay the rent, and I would proceed from that point.

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2 Reply

Walt Dockery

Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2017 · 171 posts · 165 votes

9y

Originally posted by @Deanna McCormick:

@Patti Robertson

This is a section of the Crime Free / Drug Free Addendum all tenants are required to sign in my county in Minnesota. It is clear and reason that the tenants would have been given a notice to vacate if they were at my complex. Mutual lease termination would have been used, but if they objected to that we would have moved to the next step, eviction for cause.

Resident, any members of the resident’s household, or a guest or other person under the resident’s control shall not engage in acts of violence, or threats of violence, including but not limited to the unlawful discharge of firearms, prostitution, criminal street gang activity, intimidation, or any other breach of the housing agreement that the other wise jeopardizes the health safety or welfare of the landlord, his agents, or tenants.

VIOLATION OF THE ABOVE PROVISIONS SHALL BE A MATERIAL VIOLATION OF THE HOUSING AGREEMENT AND GOOD CAUSE FOR TEMINATION OF TENANCY. A single violation of any of the provisions of this addendum shall be deemed a serious violation and material non-compliance with the housing agreement.

It is understood and agreed that a single violation shall be good cause for termination of the housing agreement. Unless otherwise provided by law, proof of violations shall not require criminal conviction, but shall be by the preponderance of the evidence.

In case of conflict between the provisions of this addendum and any other provisions of the housing agreement, the provisions of the addendum shall govern.

This Housing Agreement Addendum is incorporated into the Housing Agreement executed, or renewed this day between the Owner, or Agent, and Resident.

Again, I don't think you are quite understanding what a victim is. The victim (if innocent of criminal activity) is not the one "engaging in violence".

Based on the information posted here there's no evidence whatsoever the victim was engaged in any of that.

0 Reply

Patti RobertsonBusiness Member

Property Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

9y

@Deanna McCormick - How is walking down the street and being hit by a drive by bullet "engaging in acts of violence..."? The point is the poster did not say if the tenant's son was the target in a gang or drug related shooting OR if he was an innocent victim of a robbery gone bad, etc. We don't know nearly enough info to make the determination if the son drew the gun holders onto the street.

757-472-2547

1 Reply

Deanna McCormick

Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9y

@Patti Robertson

The poster said "MURDERED " And you don't know enough either to rule that out.. My POINT is with crime free / drug free addendum the property owner has the right to hold up the clause for grounds for immediate lease termination. Without the Crime Free / addendum that would be hard to enforce.

I really don't care what that property manager did to handle the situation, and or how the kid was gunned down. unfortunate accident or drive by or intentional..

But if it wasn't an accident.. then the crime free would permit the landlord to do mutual lease termination or eviction.

We actually did 3 apartments in one building gave everybody on 3rd floor the boot.. all were involved and we decided not to draw straws and all were forced to vacate.

The circumstances fit the crime,, it's the power of the landlord owner to recognize and enforce as they see fit.. they don't have to force eviction or termination, but with the addendum it's easier to control when it's in writing if they think the situation deems it necessary.

@Patti Robertson

0 Reply

Eddie Silva

Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 8 votes

9y

Lady, we all know your opinion. Thanks for sharing.

4 Reply

Shaun Patterson

Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes

9y

I would have to agree with both sides. First and foremost find out what happened. This can be found by speaking to the officers that handled the location. Next if it is an intentional murder that the victim caused on himself, then I would have to agree and set up arraignments after a grieving time to have them move out. If this is a situation where he was randomly gunned down (IE getting robbed, or mistaken identity, or him ending up being collateral damage from a gang shoot out) Then I would have a sit down and find out what the tenants want to do immediately. Remember that it will be bad publicity for the property either way you choose so go with the least damaging to the properties leasability. I also have zero tolerance for guns, drugs and violence in properties I manage but I understand bystanders and collateral damage caused by the same bad apples. This is one of the hard times where you have to get through with a calm and collected mind. You can't have everyone in this situation running off emotions.

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Murder at rental. What to do?

Murder at rental. What to do?

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