Tenant still hasn't paid, court date in September
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Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 97 posts · 30 votes
9y@Joe P. I wouldn't give them cash for keys until you reach Sept time. If they told you they're going to vacate at the 31st I'd wait it out until then before you give them extra cash. Good Luck with this and let me know how you make out!
11 Replies
- Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes9y
keep the court date but see if they would be open to cash for keys if they move on or before the 31st make sure you understand the process and the proper way to carry it out if they agree
- 9yJoe P.Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votesOP
Is there a proper way? I wonder if that could be used against me in court, if I asked them? I suppose not, but I figured I would ask.
Bottom line is I cannot trust this tenant, even one iota, so cash-for-keys entered my mind but I'm not sure what the correct way would be to execute, and I don't want it to come back to bite me.
- Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 97 posts · 30 votes9y
@Joe P. I wouldn't give them cash for keys until you reach Sept time. If they told you they're going to vacate at the 31st I'd wait it out until then before you give them extra cash. Good Luck with this and let me know how you make out!
- 9yKim Meredith HamptonBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Joe P. I would Not offer them anything, let the courts handle it. Don't interfere
- Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 140 posts · 37 votes9y
A lot of tenants and this personaly happened with ours knowing that they will be moving out trying to use their last month's rent plus security deposit as last 2 months payment. This way they can save some money for their next place. It is hard for some to save 3 months rent, so they just stop paying. We personally let them do it that way. We took the risk of not being able to use security deposit as was intended by the contract, but knew anyway if we took them to court, they didn't have any money to pay anyway. I think cash for keys is just wrong. I am not giving anybody a dime to get my own property back. And evictions are costly.
- Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2011 · 42 posts · 22 votes9y
Hello Joe,
I would absolutely let the court and sheriff handle this one.
They're savvy enough to check the mail and make an excuse. But its all words until there is a payment agreement or judgment.
Definitely call to feel them out, drive by and see what they're doing. But keep contact minimal. At this point, your objective should be getting them out, accepting payment will allow them to go month to month past the lease expiration. And a vacant property usually sells quicker!
Make sure you have your lease, and preferably some sort of signed acknowledgment that the tenant received a copy of your rental license, certificate of rental suitability and copy of the partners for good housing pamphlet. If the tenant is smarter than you and knows how to game the system, they will say they never received these documents from you and you will not be able to collect any rent, you would just be seeking a judgment for termination of the lease to vacate the property.....but that would only be after the lease term has ended.
If tenant does not show up to court, highly likely, you win the judgment automatically.
Evictions in philly are dirt cheap. Filing fees around $90-$200 depending on amount of tenant owes, which tenant will have to pay upon winning a judgment. THIS IS NOTHING! Paying a process server alone would cost around $500. Philadelphia serves the tenant for you! Then costs for writ of possession, alias writ and sheriff won't be more than another $200.
Cash for keys is a stupid tactic used by stupid, lazy landlords/slumlords trying to skirt laws and squeeze pennies out of row houses. Its way too easy to properly, legally rent your property in philadelphia to avoid ever having to pay someone to leave your property. Pay the court and the sheriff to handle it!
So you should go to court, bring all of your documents and the best case you can ask for is a judgment for payment of all rent owed and for tenant to vacate Sept 30 or as of the judgement date since the lease will have already expired. If you win the judgment, the clock starts and ten days later if tenant has not left, you file for writ of possession, 11 days later you file for alias writ and request sheriff appointment date. If it comes down to sheriff eviction, you're looking at possibly a date in October/November. (December becomes a dead month because the sheriff will not evict during the holidays and all appointments pushed into the new year!)
After the judgement, no more negotiating with tenants, they know when they have to leave. Make arrangements for exchange of keys and an inspection with tenant when they have property completely vacant, or as close as they think they will get it. They hopefully may just stop answering your calls and leave.
- Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 140 posts · 37 votes9y
And why is that that you can't trust them? Did they not pay before, were they always late, did they lie about something before, do they have a good credit, worth caring about? There is a whole lot we don't know and can't give you adequate advise. It's always subjective.
- Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes9y
1. Don't stop the eviction action. That should continue.
2. Assuming they will actually move out on the 31st, you'll want to them to sign a bunch of papers confirming that they are in fact leaving the property, etc. Do whatever you can to document the process --- if you have the right contacts, have them witness the signing of the documents. Change the locks right after they sign all the papers. Talk to your lawyer about what they should sign.
3. If they don't actually leave by the 31st, then you proceed as usual. But I would continue to make the offer to settle or even do cash for keys.
4. Note the purpose behind cash for keys: it is basically an incentive for the tenants to do number 2. The money gets exchanged after you had the chance to review the property condition, get all the documents signed, change the locks, etc. It's kind of an on the spot process.
@Armando Ramirez @Account Closed --- recommend cash for keys is that it's infinitely simpler solution in most cases. It takes one crazy tenant to drag you all the way to the Court of Common Pleas and potentially to the Commonwealth Court and the Bankruptcy Court. Even for some one who could theoretically handle all these lawsuits for free, the potential time sink on these matters is generally not worth it.
When it comes to litigation and dealing with difficult tenants, I basically agree with what Andrew Syrios says in the article below. It doesn't necessarily have to be cash for keys, but relying only on evictions to handle trouble tenants can become a major issue down the line.
https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/03/0...
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it as legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
- Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes9y
If we had tenants that we had filed on and said they would be out prior to court date,, all we would say is let me know when I can pick up your keys,, I need you to sign you have vacated..
Honestly then you have possession of the property,,
You can contact court and go to court and let them know to have case stricken, you have possession of your property and sit in court and tell the judge that they had vacated..
or wait till the 11th.
But I would respond and tell tenant that the matter is in the courts hands and if they do leave it's best that they let you know so you can secure the property, and you will sign you received the keys from them.
Both parties are still obligated to show up in court,
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes9y
I'm not normally going to do cash for keys in my rentals, because I have screened the tenants to the extent where their defaulting is unlikely; but they have a history of demonstrating "good character" so if they defaulted I'm confident they would do the right thing and move.
But removing occupants who are former owners after sheriff sale, now that is a different story. In PA that is an expensive ejectment action, so I prefer to get possession returned by the occupants "voluntarily surrendering possession" - cash for keys is the enticement for that.
If your tenants aren't out on the 31st, you are close enough to the court date that you should expect to have to make that appearance. So go being well prepared; expect to be asked to negotiate some sort of agreement with the tenant. And do really try to get to an agreement if you can, rather than appearing before the judge to get the judge's decision. The reason for reaching an agreement is that the tenant cannot appeal that, so it cannot get dragged out due to that. Bankruptcy on the other hand ...
And since you state this is a property you want to sell, getting the tenant out ASAP makes sense. So maybe cash for keys might be a choice for you.
- Frisco, TX · Member since 2017 · 201 posts · 95 votes9y
Originally posted by @Chris K.:
1. Don't stop the eviction action. That should continue.
2. Assuming they will actually move out on the 31st, you'll want to them to sign a bunch of papers confirming that they are in fact leaving the property, etc. Do whatever you can to document the process --- if you have the right contacts, have them witness the signing of the documents. Change the locks right after they sign all the papers. Talk to your lawyer about what they should sign.
3. If they don't actually leave by the 31st, then you proceed as usual. But I would continue to make the offer to settle or even do cash for keys.
4. Note the purpose behind cash for keys: it is basically an incentive for the tenants to do number 2. The money gets exchanged after you had the chance to review the property condition, get all the documents signed, change the locks, etc. It's kind of an on the spot process.
@Armando Ramirez @Account Closed --- recommend cash for keys is that it's infinitely simpler solution in most cases. It takes one crazy tenant to drag you all the way to the Court of Common Pleas and potentially to the Commonwealth Court and the Bankruptcy Court. Even for some one who could theoretically handle all these lawsuits for free, the potential time sink on these matters is generally not worth it.
When it comes to litigation and dealing with difficult tenants, I basically agree with what Andrew Syrios says in the article below. It doesn't necessarily have to be cash for keys, but relying only on evictions to handle trouble tenants can become a major issue down the line.
https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/03/0...
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it as legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
@Joe Papp
What @Chris K. said. Also, give them written notice that their lease is ending and they do NOT have the option to renew unless they immediately pay all monies due and new rent is significantly higher. Usually this needs to be done before the 1st of the month so do it now. Let them know they have to check their "option" and return this document to you by the 3rd(?) of the month otherwise it will be assumed they are terminating the lease at it's completion and leaving. Keep a copy. That way even if they don't sign it, you have it as further documentation when you go to court. No idea how quick an eviction actually happens in PA, maybe the judge orders them out immediately or will let them stay to end of lease. But this should help your cause.
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