Hello there,
I need your help. I have a lease with my tenant which is just 3 months old . Currently, the tenant got section 8 approval and asking me to accept the partial amount from section 8 and she stops paying me the amount that section 8 will pay me. So, it seems like I need to sign a contract with section 8 org to get that payment. However, my existing lease with the tenant has another 9 months to get completed. Can my tenant force me to accept section 8 in the middle of an existing lease?
I would contact her section 8 worker,, and say your apt/ house is not section 8 inspected or compliant.. and you are not prepared to sign the contract until you know what is required to comply with their inspection of the property before you agree to sign the contract. I don't believe you can be forced to do that as you were not section 8 approved before renting to this tenant. The tenant usually had like 60 days from the date the sect 8 approval to find housing that accepts section 8
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Just because they ask doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree..
Might be easier to let tenant know you'll let her out of her lease with 30 or 60 day notice.. that would be my first thought.
As much as it would be useful to have the option to turn it down, in MA there are very few reasons you would be able to deny section 8.
Make sure that BEFORE you sign anything with section 8 that your whole rent would be covered, as in the total rental amount did not lower. You may also ask to re-sign a new lease and make sure to notify section 8 every year of rent increases. It is certainly more of a process and you must make sure to do paperwork correctly, but it is not a bad program, just some more leg work for you to get set up.
Just to add to this, if they start shorting the rent, you should send them notice to quit immediately. Make sure that you have money coming in from both parties before they just start paying you less.
I think you need to contact the gov and a lawyer. There sounds like there is an awful lot of "he said, she said" going on, and you need to get the information from the horses mouth.
Can the gov just qualify you are sec8 compliant just like that? Without your permission? What are your consequences if you fall out of compliance?
It sounds like the whole scope of lease changed when this tenant blind-sided you. Don't just roll over and take it without a challenge.
Thanks everyone for the responses. The only option left to me is to sign the contract with Section 8.
If she doesn't pay you rent until Sec.8 starts paying - it means a breach of the lease.
Another option - to give her 3 day notice.
You can't discriminate on the source of income but you might have preferenc to not do extra inspections.
If you passed the city inspection - safety etc - it should be enough.
Thanks everyone for the responses. The only option left to me is to sign the contract with Section 8.
If she doesn't pay you rent until Sec.8 starts paying - it means a breach of the lease.
Another option - to give her 3 day notice.
You can't discriminate on the source of income but you might have preferenc to not do extra inspections.
If you passed the city inspection - safety etc - it should be enough.
Not necessarily true in regards to passing the city inspection. The city does not require the escushion rings on pipes, does not check the basement, does not check for lead paint, does not control the rental amount.
I'm still learning all the Section 8 rules, but I state clearly in my ads that I am not Section 8 qualified. Hope this helps for next time. I'm not sure what I'd do if a tenant proposed something mid-year through their lease. Obviously, you want them to continue to pay rent, but it should be your choice to convert or not to Section 8 Housing and abide by their rules.
I used to do this, and ended up getting called and emailed constantly by the housing authority for signing up with them. I asked them why they never respond to my calls and emails about the section 8 people dealing drugs out of the house across the street, with dozens of people living there (every neighbor hates them) but they have time to troll the internet looking for landlords to sign up....Pathetic joke, our government...
Thanks everyone for the responses. The only option left to me is to sign the contract with Section 8.
If she doesn't pay you rent until Sec.8 starts paying - it means a breach of the lease.
Another option - to give her 3 day notice.
You can't discriminate on the source of income but you might have preferenc to not do extra inspections.
If you passed the city inspection - safety etc - it should be enough.
Not necessarily true in regards to passing the city inspection. The city does not require the escushion rings on pipes, does not check the basement, does not check for lead paint, does not control the rental amount.
That's exactly my point: once I passed the city inspection, I don't need more hassle.
However, the cities, I'm working with, check on basement - there are all tech equipment. HWThas certain requirements, plumbing, electric - it's all in the basement
I'm still learning all the Section 8 rules, but I state clearly in my ads that I am not Section 8 qualified. Hope this helps for next time. I'm not sure what I'd do if a tenant proposed something mid-year through their lease. Obviously, you want them to continue to pay rent, but it should be your choice to convert or not to Section 8 Housing and abide by their rules.
I used to do this, and ended up getting called and emailed constantly by the housing authority for signing up with them. I asked them why they never respond to my calls and emails about the section 8 people dealing drugs out of the house across the street, with dozens of people living there (every neighbor hates them) but they have time to troll the internet looking for landlords to sign up....Pathetic joke, our government...
Thanks for the tip Jack! I live in a small town of 5,000. I'm not sure that HUD is trolling for me to sign up...at least not yet. I just figured it's better to let people know up front that I won't be accepting Section 8 as most of my calls are from people who have a difficult time qualifying or paying full rent. Going forward, I will most likely be posting my ads with some of the major employers (in their lunchroom or give flyers to HR). If I can target gainfully employed people at prospering businesses that would save me some time filtering.
A couple of points I'd like to throw into this thread:
1) Many states have statutes that bar Landlords from discriminating against prospective tenants, based on their source of income. This means that a potential tenant with a Section 8 voucher could be considered a protected class - period.
2) A potential tenant who requires you to complete/submit paperwork about your property, remove your property from the market for 2-4 weeks while an inspection is scheduled, take the time to travel to your property to meet with the Sec. 8 inspector, followed by additional time spent waiting around while he/she conducts their inspection, all without any from of compensation... is not a protected class - period.
In my listings, I state that my properties are "not set up to work with the Housing Voucher program". This does not mean I'm discriminating against the Section 8 tenant - rather I'm saying that I won't jump through the hoops required by the Section 8 program to place a vouchered tenant in my home at my own expense. Accepting a tenant backed by a Section 8 voucher, and agreeing to spend time/effort above & beyond what would be required by any conventional market tenant are 2 mutually exclusive things.
I'd be happy to accept a Section 8 tenant, so long as the following was understood in advance:
1) The Housing Authority (not me) must fill out all paperwork regarding my home, and send to me for easy electronic signature.
2) I must be compensated for the time my home is removed from the market, while awaiting the Federal Inspection - assuming I find a qualified conventional tenant willing to rent during the inspection waiting-period (a per diem for potential rent-loss).
3) The inspection must be scheduled with consideration for my convenience, and I must be compensated for the time taken to travel to the property and meet with the Inspector.
In other words, my total "charge" as a PM to process all paperwork & handle the Section 8 scheduling/inspection would be a reasonable $100-$150. I'd have to pass that expense on to someone, and since I won't pass it on to my Clients - the Housing Authority or tenant would get the bill. Then there's the likelihood that I find another qualified tenant while waiting for the paperwork to be processed & the home to be inspected - this could tack on another $200-$500 to the total cost, as my Client could be receiving that rent from someone else while waiting on the local Housing Authority to conduct inspections.
Ultimately, the Housing Authority would refuse to pay the bill for my services - or compensate my Client a per diem for lost rent. The idea that a tenant who's on Section 8 assistance pays that bill?..... highly unlikely. In either case, there's no requirement for me to spend my own time/money to accommodate anything above what I would normally do for a conventional market tenant - and there's no requirement to remove the property from the market without compensation (assuming I find another qualified renter).
Jeez... this got long. Regardless, hope this helps someone understand that no: you cannot discriminate against Section 8-backed tenants in many States. That said, yes: you can demand additional compensation for the additional time/effort it takes to accommodate a Section 8-backed tenant. If they or the Housing Authority refuse to provide reasonable compensation - you may choose not to accommodate them.
Cheers!
You originally signed paperwork with Section 8.
You screened and placed the tenant, and found them qualified on their own merits.
Your property successfully passed the inspection with no repairs needed.
Remind me again what exactly is the problem? If you are that worried about not receiving the rent amount from section 8 for a few months while the process gets going, then you don't have a sufficient amount of money held in reserves to begin with, and/or should have done more research about the pros and cons of section 8 prior to signing ANY paperwork with them. At this point you are likely facing legal action if you chose not to proceed. (no legal advise given).
Accept it for what it is and chalk any negative items up to a learning experience. Take the section 8 and let the lease ride out for the remaining 9 months and then choose to renew or not with the tenant. If the tenant is bad, decline to renew the lease and don't get another section 8 yearly inspection done. The good news is often times section 8 will overpay market rents for the types of properties an investor would actually use this program for. So at the end of the 9 months perhaps a 10% rent raise is in order, or whatever would bring it up to the cap imposed by section 8.
One last thought. Section 8 will often approve a very healthy rent increase in year two. You MUST submit your rent increase sixty days before your lease ends (called recertification date by Section 8) along with reasons for the rent increase (increase in taxes, utilities, maintenance, insurance etc..). You can even call the worker now and ask what the maximum rent section 8 allows for your apartment (in section 8 lingo, the call it a voucher- one bedroom, two bedroom). Best of luck!
.... In my listings, I state that my properties are "not set up to work with the Housing Voucher program"....
Because the OP is from MA, I think it is worth noting that this will get you in trouble in Massachusetts. Maybe you don't have to approve the tenant, but you can in no way discourage anyone from applying. Directly from the Fair Housing Factsheet on the Attorney General's website:
Avoid advertising rental properties in a way that indicates bias or preference. For example, it is illegal to post an advertisement saying “No Section 8” or “No Children”. Real estate professionals advertising rental properties also should avoid words that might be code for bias, as in “Perfect for professional couple” or “Single person preferred”.
There are 15 or 16 protected classes in MA, versus I believe 8 Federally. Those of us in MA need to very selective of what advice we follow on a national forum such as this.
@Maksud H. I suspect that if you don't take the voucher, the tenant will move some place else. I know you have a lease, but leases are broken all the time and there is minimal recourse for a landlord. Vouchers can be difficult to obtain. At least in my city there is a waiting list, so you can't just get it when you want. If you think the tenants is decent, I would just work with them to accept the voucher. It is not ideal the way this went down, but most likely the tenant didn't know their name would come up for the voucher, so I doubt they were intentionally deceiving you.
I would be concerned about how sec 8 compliance might impact your bottom line in the long term. Additional inspections could lead to additional requirements which obviously could lead to added costs and maybe lost rent....
I get existing tenants who become approved finally for a housing voucher a couple times a year and I am happy for them. Yes, it's a little extra paperwork I have to do, but it helps my customer and they stay longer.
It's not like you are needing to bend your screening requirements because they have sect 8. They're already there. If there were no issues with the dwelling inspection, I don't see what the problem is. You will receive a 1099 for all HAP monies received, but big deal. Help your tenant here. That extra couple hundred dollars they no longer have to spend on rent helps them a ton!
.... In my listings, I state that my properties are "not set up to work with the Housing Voucher program"....
Because the OP is from MA, I think it is worth noting that this will get you in trouble in Massachusetts. Maybe you don't have to approve the tenant, but you can in no way discourage anyone from applying. Directly from the Fair Housing Factsheet on the Attorney General's website:
Avoid advertising rental properties in a way that indicates bias or preference. For example, it is illegal to post an advertisement saying “No Section 8” or “No Children”. Real estate professionals advertising rental properties also should avoid words that might be code for bias, as in “Perfect for professional couple” or “Single person preferred”.
There are 15 or 16 protected classes in MA, versus I believe 8 Federally. Those of us in MA need to very selective of what advice we follow on a national forum such as this.
I don't believe that sentence will get you in trouble in any of the 50 States - including MA (neither does the Attorney who reviewed my listing language). Has the home been through the Federal Inspection process conducted by the local Housing Authority? If the answer is "No"... it's simply a statement of fact to advertise that the home is not currently set up to work with the program. Is it a bit ambiguous? Yes. Is it in any way discriminatory? No. Would I accept an application from a Vouchered tenant? Of course. But my home would still not be set up to work with the Voucher program.
Keep in mind, nowhere in my post did I advocate for saying "No Section 8". It was my intention to point out that you are allowed to specify whether the property is currently set up, and are under no obligation to perform any actions to accomplish setting it up without reasonable reimbursement for expenses. A good example would be if a handicapped tenant were to want a ramp installed at one of my properties, I'm legally obligated to allow them to do this. However, I'm not under any obligation to allow it at my expense. I'm not required to physically install it myself, nor am I required to pay an outside Contractor to do it. The burden of responsibility falls to the tenant to see that their needs are met - the Landlord simply must allow them to do so.
If the Housing Authority were to set up the HAP Contract & inspect the house without my involvement (impossible), they're more than welcome to do so. If either the HA or tenant were willing to reimburse me reasonable expenses for the time/cost associated with accomplishing these things (unlikely), I'd be happy to work with them. An argument could be made that you aren't obligated to show up to the inspection (and thus the home would fail), but that's just an argument that *could* be made - and I wouldn't advocate for engaging in an argument with a Federal Authority.
Regardless, for OP it sounds like you're likely obligated to accept the Voucher. You've allowed the home to be inspected, filled out the necessary paperwork - thus actually receiving HAP payments requires very little on your part. You cannot discriminate against a tenant based on where the rent is coming from (source of income). That said, absolutely check with an Attorney in MA - it's entirely possible that the correct answer hasn't been posted anywhere on this thread (though with all the knowledgeable users here, I imagine it has).
Cheers.
I would have to say "No.".
....
The problem that you may have is that Section 8 will inspect the property and require repairs.
That IS the only problem - however, it might not be the OP's problem.
I've seen so many properties which passed Sec.8 inspection that I just wonder how does it work. It's not habitable, in my opinion. Maybe they check out amount of rent but conditions of the properties are just horrible.
That's the major reason why it's so hard to find a decent house with Sec.8 voucher - they control money but overlook the condition. I always rent higher than market - because of condition. Why would I settle for less money?
@Jason Moore Fair enough, you did not specifically say "No Section 8" but I will still agree to disagree overall. One could argue the ambiguity in your listing's language might be i indicate a bias. It may be just within the realm of acceptable language, but why push the limits when as you state in great detail, there are likely other ways out?
I'm not a lawyer and perhaps your lawyer knows a lot about this specific issue in MA but I'm certainly not going to rely on their suggestion.
I will again reiterate my point that those in MA need to be cognizant that there are several posts in this thread (not just the one I quoted above) that make reference to language used in listings that very well may get you in trouble here.
Massachusetts is a heavily tenant friendly state. Get a solid attorney on board, cross your T's and dot your I's. If this tenant is making a big issue out of this, there may be more coming down the road. Don't provide ammunition for him/her to use by not being thorough. Best of luck.